Emperor vs. Horus

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

But this is the same Empy that was said to be able to hold off all four gods of Chaos.

See, this is what I have a problem with. The Chaos Gods are fed by the emotions of every single sentient creature, and yet are defeated by a single, mortalish, psyker.

 

It makes much more sense that the Chaos Gods abandoned Horus after the damage was done. Plus, it's even more grimdark.

 

But it's a matter of interpretation, the actual fight - and most choose to portray the Emperor as hesitant, not helpless, which actually weakens his character.

[Pulse]

The chaos gods are nothing more than emotion taken "form", an extreme form i admit, but when the Emperor rocks up with his ultra powerful talents - it isn't hard to see how he kept four emotional "beasts" at bay.

 

As for the Ork quote....

 

Index Astartes - Luna Wolves;

 

The two fought together on many occasions. At the fortified city of Reillis, a Human settlement unwilling to accept the Emperor's beneficent will, the defending army used secret tunnels to infiltrate behind the besieging Imperial army and hundreds of shock troops swamped the command encampment. Unprepared and unarmoured, the Emperor and Horus fought back to back until a plasma blast stunned Horus and sent him staggering to the floor. The Emperor stood over the Primarch and refused to give ground until reinforcements arrived to drive their attackers back. On the Ork-infested planet of Gorro, Horus repaid the debt by hacking the arm from a huge, frenzied Greenskin warlord as it struggled to choke the Emperor's life out of him.

 

Notice the word struggled, clearly means that the Ork did not have all it's own way - can only imagine that the battle between the two must have been colossal and the Ork resorted to try and strangle the Emperor as a last ditch attempt.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

The chaos gods are nothing more than emotion taken "form", an extreme form i admit, but when the Emperor rocks up with his ultra powerful talents - it isn't hard to see how he kept four emotional "beasts" at bay.

Um, to put it bluntly, no. Why don;t you go read the Chaos Daemons Codex. Or something that might give you insight as to how the Chaos Gods work. And how powerful they are. Any Chaos materiel, really.

[Pulse]

Read it - filed it under the "talking waffle" section.

 

Anyway, its clear the Emperor was extremely powerful and thats how he did it, we areclearly not going to get an explaination so just keep it as that.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Read it - filed it under the "talking waffle" section.

 

Anyway, its clear the Emperor was extremely powerful and thats how he did it, we areclearly not going to get an explaination so just keep it as that.

You're dismissing the number one source of Chaos canon. Because it was 'talking waffle'.

 

I have better things to do than to argue with anyone who has that kind of mentality. Like read C.S. Goto.

[Pulse]

:)

[snorkle]

I can just imagine the ork with a flaming sword in his side trying to end the big E's life with his dirty green mitts the size of an average human. Someone should really make an illustration of that *hint hint* :D

[Unintentional Batman]

Notice the word struggled, clearly means that the Ork did not have all it's own way - can only imagine that the battle between the two must have been colossal and the Ork resorted to try and strangle the Emperor as a last ditch attempt.

 

Or not so clearly. Or doesn't really mean that at all. Any fight is a struggle. And if you let an or to start chocking you, you really aren't doing that well in said battle. Especially if you are the most powerful psyker of all times who vapourizes souls with mere thought.

[Pulse]

Or not so clearly. Or doesn't really mean that at all. Any fight is a struggle. And if you let an or to start chocking you, you really aren't doing that well in said battle. Especially if you are the most powerful psyker of all times who vapourizes souls with mere thought.

Not all fights are struggles but yeh your right the Emperor must have been in some trouble to let the Ork grab him.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

The Emperor himself admits he is a Mortal (can be killed in combat) yet he has the gift of agelessness and immense power. Lets not forget his Mental powers would also be used to hold the imperium together as he is still at any one time the guiding light behind warp travel and astropaths.

 

The Emperor may be a giant amongst giant men but a normal ork is still massive so when you have a massive ork warlord amongst massive orks in a massive orks sector his physical might is nothing to be laughed at. If the emperor was being chocked it would still be as if a vice was around his neck (granted we all think he should use his abilities to fry the ork on sight but if hes also busy holding the imperoum together every second of the day he can not use those powers simply because in beating this ork he would be willingly signing the execution of vast areas of the expanding imperium. Which is why he requires an imperial army custodes and space marines in the first place. to help bolster his strength in the mortal realm whilst he effectively holds the human galaxy together.

[MagicMan]

Horus was supposed to fail.

 

 

 

If Horus had won, he would have eventually destroyed mankind in his guilt wracked torment. Which means no more Eternal war. Of course the gods deserted him.

[BearersOfSalvation]

I don't think the problem was just destroying Horus's soul, lots of psykers have done that in other fluff, though it's not a trivial task, and I don't think it's been done to a Primarch. It was destroying it with the 4 Chaos powers interfering. From the description of the final fight in the old fluff, once he decided not to hold back, he was preparing an incredibly powerful release of energy that the 4 chaos powers were afraid to get caught in - they all ran away from Horus once they saw the power that the Emperor was gathering. I think the fact that the chaos powers left their biggest achievement even though he was still fighting for them indicates that they thought the blast would hurt them in some way.

 

And because according to old fluff Horus melted half of the Emps face, ripped off a limb or two etc etci.. I think after that even i would need a nice long nap.

 

He broke several of the Emperor's ribs through terminator armor with an 'almost playful' punch.

[Unintentional Batman]

Not all fights are struggles but yeh your right the Emperor must have been in some trouble to let the Ork grab him.

 

Yeah, agreed. I was mostly talking about "proper" fights where both opponents get to actually put out some proper offense as struggles, not really one sided squashes. Anyway...

 

Thanks a bunch for the input, all. Especially endless for the quote of older fluff I was looking for :teehee:

[Pulse]

Thanks a bunch for the input, all. Especially endless for the quote of older fluff I was looking for :)

That stuff is certainly different from the older fluff, not sure i like the newer stuff about the Emperor falling over as a husk...

[endless]

erm, it is the older fluff. -_-

[Iron_Adam]

I don't like the idea of the emperor being slowed down by having no blood going to the brain or no air to the lungs. He should have been like "oh yeah, breathing, I remember that, did it a few times too. "

[Billuriye]

I don't like the idea of the emperor being slowed down by having no blood going to the brain or no air to the lungs. He should have been like "oh yeah, breathing, I remember that, did it a few times too. "

 

Emperor is no god.He needs sustenance. I bet he sh*ts too.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I don't like the idea of the emperor being slowed down by having no blood going to the brain or no air to the lungs. He should have been like "oh yeah, breathing, I remember that, did it a few times too. "

Funnily enough, I agree with this kind of thinking. The Emperor was powerful enough not to need food or even air, I'm geussing, especially since astartes do not need food and don't directly need air (remember that special lung they have? It allows them to breathe water too).

 

I'm not entirely sure of how the primarchs fit into this, though, probably more like humans than astartes or the Emperor. The reason I say this is because I would think that the primarchs would just take huge gulps of air if they need to, and hold their breathe for five hours, or something like that.

 

EDIT: This is all IMHO.

[Greyall]

In Thousand Sons it's stated that the Primarchs have no organs like ordinary humans, as they're beings made of, well...warp.

 

Not sure how it goes for the Emperor, his origins being a lot different, but it does add a nice touch that, while he is more powerful than any Primarch or Daemon (or even Chaos God), he is physically more vulnerable - even if stronger.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

In Thousand Sons it's stated that the Primarchs have no organs like ordinary humans, as they're beings made of, well...warp.

Er, could you provide a page number for that? ^_^

[BearersOfSalvation]

In Thousand Sons it's stated that the Primarchs have no organs like ordinary humans, as they're beings made of, well...warp.

 

I don't remember that at all, and other HH books have talked about the Primarchs as physical beings.

[Greyall]

It's a scene in which Ahriman is "scanning" Magnus, but then muses about the Primarch not possessing a liver, etc.

 

Page 201: "Magnus nodded, and Ahriman saw how pale his skin had become. His long red hair was matted with sweat, and Ahriman thought he could see the writhing veins and pulsing organs beneath the primarch’s skin. That was a lie, for Ahriman had seen into the heart of Magnus, and there was nothing so mundane as liver, lungs or kidney within that immortal frame."

 

When Ferrus Manus is decapitated, there's a massive energy release, and it's stated that it's due to him being made of "energy".

 

Edit: So they put some energy in your energy so the energy being could release more energy. Sorry about the redundancy up there.

[Pulse]

Yup!

[Billuriye]

It's a scene in which Ahriman is "scanning" Magnus, but then muses about the Primarch not possessing a liver, etc.

 

Page 201: "Magnus nodded, and Ahriman saw how pale his skin had become. His long red hair was matted with sweat, and Ahriman thought he could see the writhing veins and pulsing organs beneath the primarch’s skin. That was a lie, for Ahriman had seen into the heart of Magnus, and there was nothing so mundane as liver, lungs or kidney within that immortal frame."

 

When Ferrus Manus is decapitated, there's a massive energy release, and it's stated that it's due to him being made of "energy".

 

Edit: So they put some energy in your energy so the energy being could release more energy. Sorry about the redundancy up there.

 

Thanks, i'm pretty sure some writers don't like that.

[Greyall]

Aye, it makes for some harsh fridge logic. If they are nothing but energy given flesh form, then do they "imitate" humans rather than being so? As in, they simulate having blood and such?