The Fear Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The fluff on Slanesh is fairly clear that once he was born, he had always been a Chaos God. ie He had always existed. So surely once the Big E retires to the throne and becomes a fully fledged God as far as the warp is concerned he has always existed as such. So when he takes on Horus he can help himself! It 4*Chaos Gods + Horus vrs God Emp + Mortal Emp. Its making my head hurt just to try and get my head round this. The thing with the Ork was either made up or Horus saved him a split second before he saved himself (not sure if I mean God or Mortal Emp hear). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2826647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Aye, it makes for some harsh fridge logic. If they are nothing but energy given flesh form, then do they "imitate" humans rather than being so? As in, they simulate having blood and such? According to Ruven in Blood Reaver the Primarchs were created as "humanity magnified" so if that is the case they could still be made purely from energy but bound into human form by the Emperors meddlings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2826662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Was The Emperor physically the same size as a Primarch? A Primarch's physical size and strength backed up with the psychic power of all four Gods of the warp. The Mind Crush was really his only option. I also believe using it was the thing that put him in the Golden Throne. The Emperor was to a Primarch what the Primarchs were to a Guardsmen. He was above and far beyond all of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2826697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't think the problem was just destroying Horus's soul, lots of psykers have done that in other fluff, though it's not a trivial task, and I don't think it's been done to a Primarch. It was destroying it with the 4 Chaos powers interfering. From the description of the final fight in the old fluff, once he decided not to hold back, he was preparing an incredibly powerful release of energy that the 4 chaos powers were afraid to get caught in - they all ran away from Horus once they saw the power that the Emperor was gathering. I think the fact that the chaos powers left their biggest achievement even though he was still fighting for them indicates that they thought the blast would hurt them in some way. And because according to old fluff Horus melted half of the Emps face, ripped off a limb or two etc etci.. I think after that even i would need a nice long nap. He broke several of the Emperor's ribs through terminator armor with an 'almost playful' punch. Where in the world do you get the 4 chaos Gods ran away? I find it far more likely they simply abandoned him when he started to fail as they often do to their champions. Remember they're fickle and don't deal well with failure. Sure the emperor's powerful, but to be able to harm beings that have existed for thousands perhaps millions of years? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2826711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 If the Emperor reaches actual godhood then yeh i think he could probably out pwn the four chaos gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2826713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Don't worry I'm sure the throne will fail soon and the gods will have their vengeance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2826729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 If the throne fails theres a good chance the Emperor will be reborn - probably much stronger than before, so the gods probably wouldn't be laughing when he comes hunting for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2826868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Primarchs have no organs? lol. How does Angron get his implants? Also the ork struggled with the emperor, but the debt was repaid, implying mortal danger. If you kill a mosquito on my arm, that doesn't cancel out me saving your life. So obviously the Emperor is fallible and the Supa Ork had a chance of killing him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2828413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Emperor declares himself not a god and is thusly able to be killed he can't stress this enough which is why he fits to much over being reveared as a god, because if he dies faith is destroyed, man must look too himself no other to bring what he can to the table and make life better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2828459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Primarchs have no organs? lol. How does Angron get his implants? Also the ork struggled with the emperor, but the debt was repaid, implying mortal danger. If you kill a mosquito on my arm, that doesn't cancel out me saving your life. So obviously the Emperor is fallible and the Supa Ork had a chance of killing him. Unless the mosquito had Malaria :) Wasn't the ork choking the Emperor? To me, at least, if the Emperor wasn't mortal in some way he would have killed that ork long before it could have gotten close enough to make him suffer the indignity of being choked. Any being that was so powerful he couldn't be killed would most certainly want to keep the (true) appearance of being unkillable, so as to keep their people's faith in them and strike fear into the enemy. Before the ridiculus counter-argument of 'But He wanted to appear as though He wasn't divine' comes up, remember that one that was so vastly capable as the Emperor wouldn't need the appearance of being able to be killed to assure him not being divine. I'm not saying that sarcasticly - I believe the Emperor would be able to assure his own non-divinity without appearing weak. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2828463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I honestly can't come up with an infallible way for the Emperor to prove his non-divinity in the eyes of the Imperial citizens. Actually, I think he chose the best way: stating he wasn't a god. All other ways I can think of would pretty much fail once he made an entire Space Marine chapter kneel with a thought. Even dying only makes him look like a god-martyr, not a human. Showing doubt (which would be tremendously dangerous for his Imperium) wouldn't work much better, gods in human mythologies are known to have felt that - Zeus and other greek gods, for example. So, in a galaxy in constant warfare and monsters that exist because you had a fight in a bar and got angry or because your orchid dried up and died, people need to believe in something. And I understand if it seems like the right horse to bet on is the giant dude in golden armour who can make other big dudes dance 'La Cucaracha' just by giggling about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2828824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Taurus Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It's a scene in which Ahriman is "scanning" Magnus, but then muses about the Primarch not possessing a liver, etc. Page 201: "Magnus nodded, and Ahriman saw how pale his skin had become. His long red hair was matted with sweat, and Ahriman thought he could see the writhing veins and pulsing organs beneath the primarch’s skin. That was a lie, for Ahriman had seen into the heart of Magnus, and there was nothing so mundane as liver, lungs or kidney within that immortal frame." When Ferrus Manus is decapitated, there's a massive energy release, and it's stated that it's due to him being made of "energy". Edit: So they put some energy in your energy so the energy being could release more energy. Sorry about the redundancy up there. So?! This doesn't mean they are made of Warp. If they have no organs, how can it be that they bleed? How is it possible to be physically injured at all, which they are frequently even if they heal almost instantly, as both Corax and Lorgar did at Istvaan V. That entire "energy-thing" is simply them possessing a shred of the Emrperor's psykic powers. Magnus was simply the Big E's ultimate psyker-child incarnate, that's all. Angron emanates a lightning aura when he is enraged, that doesn't negate him being a physical being. A look at his many wounds would prove that. Besides, if they are made purely from Warp, how is it even possible to extract their DNA for their Legions' creation? They are simply overengineered Gene-childs of the Big E, who himself is the reincarnation of prehistoric Earth's most powerful Psykers. That alone renders them physical beings, monstrously powerful beings that may be, but still physical ones. my 2 cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229318-emperor-vs-horus/page/3/#findComment-2829145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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