BearersOfSalvation Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I dug out the old game about the Horus Heresy and thought it would be interesting to see what they used to be the official forces on Earth for the final battle. I wonder how much they'll change by the time they get to it in the books - they probably won't go unit by unit, but some specific units will get mentioned, especially things like titan legions and marine chapters. The game still uses "Imperial Guard", while I'm pretty sure it's still Imperial Army in the books. Only three Primarchs and marines for those chapters are on Earth for the Imperial side, with four on the chaos side, and the Blood Angels have fewer marines than the others. The Imperium must have at least spotted the original Fabricator-general's treachery and named a new one, they might have crippled the rebel faction by now. I highly doubt chaos squats will be in the novels anywhere. The game units are big, guard units are listed as 'armies' and marines as 'chapters', though GW has always been really loose about size. None of the special characters have direct combat stats, the Emperor and Horus double the strength of their stack, while the others can do things like use a special attack to hurt a unit without doing a full combat, build fortifications, or give rerolls. Imperial: Emperor, one unit of Custodes (really high defense stat) Rogal Dorn, two chapters of Imperial Fists Jaghatai Kahn, two chapters of White Scars Sanguinus, one chapter of Blood Angels (slightly higher offense and worse defense than other marines) Fabricator General and three Adpetus Mechanicus (would probably be Skittari now, don't think the name was round then) Four Adeptus Arbities units (they start as the outer palace defense) Three titan legions - Fire Wasps, Templars, War Griffons Two elite and twelve normal Imperial Guard armies One elite and four normal Imperial Guard tank divisions The Sky Fortress (can move one unit, fly over enemies, and bombard) Eight defense lasers Seven bastions and three factories each with a static defender Traitor: Horus, two chapters of Sons of Horus (exceptional offense stat) Angron, two Chapters of World Eaters Fulgrim, two chapters of Emperor's Children Mortarion, two chapters of Death Guard Magnus the Red, two chapters of thousand sons Six bombarding cruisers There are no imperial guard in the force, but around half of the imperial guard forces will turn traitor on the first turn, and special abilties can make more. The above is all that lands in the initial landing, the rest get summoned or come in through captured space ports. Khorne: Two war enginges (Titan attack strength, weak defense) Three Juggers Six chaos warbands Two Chaos Squats Two Beastmen Six cultists Two minotaurs Daemon Horde Slaanesh: Storm Lords Titan Legion One beast riders Three warbands One cultists Two Minotaurs Daemon Horde Nurgle: Death's Head Titan Legion One beasts of Nurgle Three warbands Two Cultists Two Chaos Squats Two Trolls Daemon Horde Tzeentch Flaming Skulls Titan Legion Two Disc Riders Four warbands Two cultists Two beastmen Daemon Horde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I don't get it. Is this a mere statement, or a question? It seems very much like it could be a nostalgia trip. Just asking because, by the look of it, there seems to be little reason to add to this thread unless there is a question or something. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 I don't get it. Is this a mere statement, or a question? It seems very much like it could be a nostalgia trip. Just asking because, by the look of it, there seems to be little reason to add to this thread unless there is a question or something. ;) It's just some old information from an old game that was hanging around in my attic that I thought might be interesting to people. People might want to compare what was in the old fluff with what's in the new fluff as it comes out, or point out things that have already been changed, but mostly I just figured I'd spend ten minutes to put this out there. There's also the place names on the map, I don't know if the space ports are going to change names, or not even be mentioned, and whether the 'bastion ofs...' will make an appearance. It's interesting to me to see what they keep and what they ditch. Some of the nitpicky stuff probably isn't going to get mentioned and no one actually cares about it - I doubt any author is going to tell us exactly how many units of disc riders came in with the Thousand Sons, and the fantasy units (like trolls and minotaurs) are just probably just going to be part of waves of 'big mutated human-like things', GW has really stopped cribbing from fantasy. But things like which titan legions make it to the fight, whether the Blood Angels are significantly less numerous than the others, whether a lot of guard units turn traitor as the legions land, whether any other Primarchs make it to the battle, and whether the Sky Fortress exists are all fairly big points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Fair enough. The old, original version of the Siege of Terra is a good read if you haven't had a look at it before. Not really sure where you could find the fluff outside of WD or Lexicanum though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I suspect there's going to be at least one major change- Iron Warriors. They would have been present in the battle- going by Index Astartes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgard Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Not to forget Night Lords and Word Bearers - going by the recent BL publications, both were at least partially present at Terra (A D-B's Night Lords novels make specific mentions of Night Lords fighting Blood Angels at Terra and even do a flash back to the battle, the Word Bearers trilogy mentions how some of the characters were at Terra, and "The First Heretic" makes a possible allusion to the main character eventually participating in the Siege of the Emperor's Palace ). Also, I would imagine the Thousand Sons to be very limited in numbers - only about 1,200 of them survived the Burning of Prospero, so there are just not very many left to contribute, if any at all. So I would imagine there might be a few of them at Terra, but numbering in dozens, not in hundreds or thousands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Fair enough. The old, original version of the Siege of Terra is a good read if you haven't had a look at it before. Not really sure where you could find the fluff outside of WD or Lexicanum though. I think that's the longer short story in the rulebook - it's about 4 2-column pages. It's interesting, but not really well-written (feels like they're just cramming events in). The shorter short story is the two-page one about the final confrontation between Horus and the Emperor, back when it was a lone terminator that ran in instead of a regular man. Also, I would imagine the Thousand Sons to be very limited in numbers - only about 1,200 of them survived the Burning of Prospero, so there are just not very many left to contribute, if any at all. So I would imagine there might be a few of them at Terra, but numbering in dozens, not in hundreds or thousands... IIRC in the old fluff the Rubric didn't happen until after the fall of Terra, and Magnus was active as a Demon Prince during a lot of the Heresy fighting (he was a useable unit in the old Epic). At the end of Thousand Sons, it seems like Magnus isn't likely to be running around blasting things with his one eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 The Fabricator-General, Kelbor-Hal, definetely fought for Horus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 At the end of Thousand Sons, it seems like Magnus isn't likely to be running around blasting things with his one eye. In Collected Visions- Magnus does throw in with Horus before the Siege of Terra. In Index Astartes: Thousand Sons- it's the Rubric that makes Magnus's bitterness peak- and so, like Horus, he swears that he will see the galaxy burn. Maybe the next Thousand Sons-centric Heresy book will have the Rubric, Magnus sending the message to Horus- and his forces set out for Terra? Unless they stick with the old fluff, and Ahriman, while beginning research on the Rubric shortly after their arrival on the Planet of Sorcerers, doesn't use it till after the Battle of Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 The Fabricator-General, Kelbor-Hal, definetely fought for Horus. There was some Adeptus Mechanicus betrayal in the old fluff, but I don't think the old story had the old Fabricator General named or listed as a traitor. Oddly the "Fabricator General" character is the only one that doesn't have a name, all of the other characters are named primarchs and the Emperor (that's both his name and title). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 The replacement Fabricator General is named as well- Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The Fabricator-General, Kelbor-Hal, definetely fought for Horus. There was some Adeptus Mechanicus betrayal in the old fluff, but I don't think the old story had the old Fabricator General named or listed as a traitor. Oddly the "Fabricator General" character is the only one that doesn't have a name, all of the other characters are named primarchs and the Emperor (that's both his name and title). Collected Visions features the Fabricator-General as being at Istvaan III, planning with Horus. He even has some dialogue: Then the Fabricator-General, Kelbor-Hal, spoke up, "But my lord, these Astartes loyal to the Throne fight like lions. They fear nothing, not even my great and mighty Titans." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Yes, he was Fabricator-General of Mars, but after Kelbor-Hal turned traitor, a new Fabricator-General, Kane, was named in his place, as shown in Mechanicum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Kane actually appears by name at the start of the old William King short story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Yes, he was Fabricator-General of Mars, but after Kelbor-Hal turned traitor, a new Fabricator-General, Kane, was named in his place, as shown in Mechanicum. Fair enough, although given that Mars is only in Personal Union with Terra, technically Kelbor-Hal was the legitimate FG ;) :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Another idea I had, I think Horus not having any guard/army formations is significant to how the Heresy progresses. At the time of Nemesis, there were rumors of Dark Things happening on conquered planets, but Horus was using military-style formations (aside from Astartes) and it was still mostly perceived as rebellion. Horus lets Erebus get away with Spear, but tells him not to do any more attempts on the Emperor, that Horus wants a personal confrontation, so he's still thinking of it as him taking over. By the time he gets to Earth, though, his forces have no regular military formations, just a bunch of warbands, mutants, and daemons, so it's just a big chaos horde coming to smash everything, and way past the point where he could really think of himself as just taking over as rightful ruler. I think this will stay in the books, they've been doing the gradual corruption of Horus and his forces so far. Yes, he was Fabricator-General of Mars, but after Kelbor-Hal turned traitor, a new Fabricator-General, Kane, was named in his place, as shown in Mechanicum. It's been a while since I read mechanicum - I thought it ended with the Adeptus Mechanicus engaged in civil war, but the rest of the Imperium didn't really know yet so wouldn't appoint a new Fabricator-General. I'll have to reread it, I liked that one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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