Loyalist Iron Warriors

[lee265]

If there is to be a captain he could be from the Emperors Children. if theer is a Wordbearer he has to be a chaplin or company champion.

[Custodian Athiair]

ok i can make the captain an Emperors Children character - that works fine for me.

the only problem i have with this is that if you guys are saying i shouldn't have a Word Bearer squad - then who should that other tactical squad be???

 

thanks

 

Athiair :)

 

ps. i suppose the Sternguard could be Thousand Sons using their psychic abilities to give their ammo special powers... and then instead of a Librarian i could take an captain. let me see how that works out - a new list will be up soon

[Custodian Athiair]

did i rather quickly here is the other list option:

 

Captain w/ Relic Blade and Artificer Armour [Emperors Children]

 

Sternguard Squad (5) w/ 2 Combi-meltas, and 2 Combi-flamers, Razorback [Thousand Sons]

 

Tactical Squad (10) w/ Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Rhino [Death Guard]

 

Tactical Squad (10) w/ Flamer, Missile Launcher, Rhino [Word Bearers?]

 

Assault Squad (5) [World Eaters]

 

Devastator Squad (5) w/ 3 Missile Launchers, 1 Heavy Bolter [iron Warriors]

 

 

so what do you guys think of that? as i say it's a bit of fun - nothing amazing. which i think is shown in the fact of the Dev squad having a mix of weapons - i want it to be interesting :) it's all a bit of a laugh

 

Athiair :)

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I once had a similer idea, though I would have done mixed squads, as it could be unlikely for their to be full squads from the leigions, and so a tactical squad wuld have , 3 luna wolves, 2 Iron warriors, 4 Emperor's children and a Night lord whilst say an assault squad could have 4 world eaters, 2 Luna wolves, 2 word bearers, and 2 Iron warriors, and etc for other squads.

sounds nice though, please post pics as soon as conveineint

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I once had a similer idea, though I would have done mixed squads, as it could be unlikely for their to be full squads from the leigions, and so a tactical squad wuld have , 3 luna wolves, 2 Iron warriors, 4 Emperor's children and a Night lord whilst say an assault squad could have 4 world eaters, 2 Luna wolves, 2 word bearers, and 2 Iron warriors, and etc for other squads.

sounds nice though, please post pics as soon as conveineint

 

I would agree with this approach, Other then having any Word Bearers or Night Lords included. There is no evidence to date that these two legions had ANY loyalists at the start of the HH. To include them taints the idea, to me. With out them you have a plausible force. To include them opens this to valid criticism. I would probably more then others, love for their to be loyalists from the Night Lords and even the Word Bearers. If anyone could point out some information i'm missing PLEASE do so. I would have put the Iron Warriors in the same group as these two before the story Iron Within was released. So i guess it would only take a like story featuring them to change all this, but i think we have had plenty with the Word Bearers. Enough certainly to get a hint of a possible black sheep.

[Corsair]

I once had a similer idea, though I would have done mixed squads, as it could be unlikely for their to be full squads from the leigions, and so a tactical squad wuld have , 3 luna wolves, 2 Iron warriors, 4 Emperor's children and a Night lord whilst say an assault squad could have 4 world eaters, 2 Luna wolves, 2 word bearers, and 2 Iron warriors, and etc for other squads.

sounds nice though, please post pics as soon as conveineint

 

I would agree with this approach, Other then having any Word Bearers or Night Lords included. There is no evidence to date that these two legions had ANY loyalists at the start of the HH. To include them taints the idea, to me. With out them you have a plausible force. To include them opens this to valid criticism. I would probably more then others, love for their to be loyalists from the Night Lords and even the Word Bearers. If anyone could point out some information i'm missing PLEASE do so. I would have put the Iron Warriors in the same group as these two before the story Iron Within was released. So i guess it would only take a like story featuring them to change all this, but i think we have had plenty with the Word Bearers. Enough certainly to get a hint of a possible black sheep.

 

I don't see how you can feel like the Word Bearers and Night Lords are off limit when we've seen examples of every other Legion, including the Sons of Horus, refuse to turn.

 

Just like with these Iron Warriors, there would be pockets of Night Lords and Word Bearers scattered around, away from the main fleets or fighting alongside other Legions. There were Night Lords that weren't insane psychopaths, and there were no doubt Word Bearers who weren't zealots or who didn't lose their overwhelming faith in the Big E; this would be especially true among any surviving Terrans, as they seem to have been a bit less susceptible to blindly following their dads into oblivion.

[Perrin]

But TFH implied that the Word Bearers loyalty to Lorgar was from their geneseed, like the TS being psykers or the Wolves being wolfish, the Word Bearers were fanatics devoted to worshipping their god/idol which went from the Emp to Lorgar/Chaos. And doesnt it say that the Word Bearers purged some of their Legion that wouldnt follow chaos before approaching Horus?

 

The Night Lords were a corrupt legion by the Heresy, most of them were murderers, thieves and rapists even before they became marines, I doubt there are any loyal NL because loyalty isnt important to them. There were probably some that were still noble (Mercutian in Blood Reaver) but im not sure they would have sided with the Emperor.

 

As for surviving Terrans, Astalan the Dark Angel was a Terran and he turned agaisnt the Lion, The Emperor and the Imperium just because he had a guy-crush on Luther.

 

I think it would be best to just make it from squads that have been mentioned to survive for obvious reasons. Iron Warriors because they were garrisoned throughout the galaxy, TS because Magnus ordered the fleet to seperate before the Wolves arrived.

But because it is just an army list it has to be stretched a bit, it just wont fit in with fluff because of Istavaan 3. It is more fun to make your own fluff to fit an army though, id go with the first list you made, get rid of the Word Bearers squad and throw in an Alpha Legion squad, get rid of the Sternguard TS and take Luna Wolves and bring back the TS Lib with the EC Captain in overall control.

 

 

I havent played for a few years mind so i have no idea about the cost in points of captains and things, sorry if my suggestions make no sense from a table-top view :D

[Corsair]

But TFH implied that the Word Bearers loyalty to Lorgar was from their geneseed, like the TS being psykers or the Wolves being wolfish, the Word Bearers were fanatics devoted to worshipping their god/idol which went from the Emp to Lorgar/Chaos. And doesnt it say that the Word Bearers purged some of their Legion that wouldnt follow chaos before approaching Horus?

 

The Night Lords were a corrupt legion by the Heresy, most of them were murderers, thieves and rapists even before they became marines, I doubt there are any loyal NL because loyalty isnt important to them. There were probably some that were still noble (Mercutian in Blood Reaver) but im not sure they would have sided with the Emperor.

 

As for surviving Terrans, Astalan the Dark Angel was a Terran and he turned agaisnt the Lion, The Emperor and the Imperium just because he had a guy-crush on Luther.

 

I think it would be best to just make it from squads that have been mentioned to survive for obvious reasons. Iron Warriors because they were garrisoned throughout the galaxy, TS because Magnus ordered the fleet to seperate before the Wolves arrived.

But because it is just an army list it has to be stretched a bit, it just wont fit in with fluff because of Istavaan 3. It is more fun to make your own fluff to fit an army though, id go with the first list you made, get rid of the Word Bearers squad and throw in an Alpha Legion squad, get rid of the Sternguard TS and take Luna Wolves and bring back the TS Lib with the EC Captain in overall control.

 

 

I havent played for a few years mind so i have no idea about the cost in points of captains and things, sorry if my suggestions make no sense from a table-top view :lol:

 

Oh yes Terrans did turn, but there is precedent for them being more 'resistant' from a storyline point of view, and this also makes sense from the standpoint that many of them would be less indoctrinated into the Legion, and would me more likely to hold the Emperor in higher (or at least equal) regard to the Primarch they met at a later date.

 

Furthermore, there is no implication that the Word Bearers had gathered literally everyone together when those purges were conducted; ditto the Night Lords. Like the now established situation with the Iron Warriors, it is certainly possible that there were individual squads or even companies spread throughout the galaxy. Most of these may have chosen to rebel alongside their brothers, many of them would probably have been executed by those loyalists they were with regardless of allegiance, but all you need is a smattering of them to survive and be embraced (like the Son of Horus, Death Guard, Iron Warrior, etc before them) and you have a fairly plausible justification.

[The Crimson Cartel]

As the Night Lords are my favorite traitor legion, I think it would be a shame to leave them out... Remember, Conrad did his thing on Nostramo, cleaning the joint up a little bit, and began the process of recruting "quality" (all relative, i know) personel into the legion to bolster the terran forces. It wasn't until later, being away from home for so long that Nostramo went back to its old ways, and the new warriors were less than,well... We all know the story. So it isn't impossible for there to be some "good" Night Lords around and kicking.

 

My idea for em.. Vanguard Vets. You could justify Heroic Intervention as Night Lord Sneak Up Tactics.. <_<

My 2

 

-CC

[Son of Rawl]

I like the fact that is implied that these Iron Warriors had a hand in writing the portion of siege warfare in the Codex instead of the Fists. That made me really chuckle lol

[Badhaggis]

I like the fact that is implied that these Iron Warriors had a hand in writing the portion of siege warfare in the Codex instead of the Fists. That made me really chuckle lol

 

 

Sure i remember hearing that peturabo wrote most of the imperial army's tank tactics which have been passed onto the guard

[James S]

I love me some Iron Warriors.

 

Not to go off topic, but what special skills, if any, did the Word Bearers bring to the table? IW brought siege warfare, IF have anti siege warfare, pretty much all legions have some form of specialty.

[Warsmith IV]

The Word Bearers? They were thorough. Incredibly thorough. More than any other, except maybe the Night Lord in their own special way...

 

Problem with the idea of an army of loyalists from heretic legions is they would have had to survive 10,000 years with next to no reinforcements, and would likely have been a small force to begin. Unless you're doing it as a shortly post-heresy army, or they've been lost in the Warp like lots of the Fallen or Zso Sahaal.

 

Then, the Word Bearers, World Eaters, Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children and Death Guard are all specifically noted to have purged the loyalists, so survivors would be individuals (Garro, Qruze, Loken, Varren, etc.) rather than full squads.

 

The Thousand Sons full legion was on the surface, and all survivors of the Battle for Prospero were pulled in the Warp and most then got ruined by the Rubric of Ahriman, so again only really individuals lost in space or whatever.

 

The Night Lords were absolkutely obedient to Curze, and I think more or less the whole Legion was with him at Nostramo. So we're back to individuals again...

 

That leaves the Iron Warriors and the Alpha Legion, who I think are the only real contenders for full squads of out-loyalists, what with the Iron Warriors having many practically independent garrisons and the Alpha Legion maybe all being loyal anyway.

 

On top of this... the Death Guard didn't have tactical squads. Every MArine was equipped with a Chainsword, Bolter and Bolt Pistol and expected to use whichever was appropriate in order to be multi-purpose rather than specialised.

 

I'd say mixed bathes of individuals is a cool idea, but full squads other than Iron Warriors or Alpha Legion wouldn't work, and you could consider adding some Fallen Angels. Also, I'd advise to keep the list small in terms of number of models as there wouldn't be many of these, especially after Garro and Malcador took the best and purest.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Actually, the whole problem with the Night Lords was that many were only loosely loyal to their Primarch. They still turned, but many turned because they were thugs and murderers, not because of any philosophies or beliefs like their Primarch.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Absolutely loved "Iron Within". Loved how the tables were turned.

 

I'm guessing any loyalist from the traitor legions would have died during the Heresy or during the Scouring.

[Warsmith IV]

Actually, the whole problem with the Night Lords was that many were only loosely loyal to their Primarch. They still turned, but many turned because they were thugs and murderers, not because of any philosophies or beliefs like their Primarch.

 

Don't get me wrong, a great many of them had little or no loyalty to Curze. I was very careful in saying they were absolutely obedient, not absolutely loyal. They did what they were told, for one reason or another. Until Curze was dead anyway.

[Iron_Adam]

Spoilers

 

 

 

 

Earlier in this thread people where saying it was odd thst gulliman sought out the warsmith. IMO that's exactly what he would do! Especially if you read the ultramarines story in the same collection. they fought fake salamanders, how forward thinking is that!?!?

[Warsmith IV]

how forward thinking is that!?!?

Oh very... especially seeing as he definitely had nothing better to do like, say, get to Terra quickly instead of writing a book and worrying about his own mini empire. In any case not really on topic.

[Jim Shady]

I would like to believe that they made it to or near the Ultramar system sometime after the Battle of Calth, hence the smurf saying Robo needed the Warsmith to re-build or build the Imperial Palace and who better to do so than a siege expert.