Atlas VOTE Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 There is some info in this post from The First Heretic, just fyi spoiler alert. Near the beginning of the first heretic Lorgar and Magnus are talking on Lorgar's home world, and they mention the two legions that were "purged." Lorgar fears the same fate because he had been worshipping the Emperor as a God and spreading such a faith to the worlds he brought to compliance. In thinking about the two missing legions, I always thought that either A) They were sent into the Eye of Terror or something like that on a special mission and never returned or B ) They did something super bad, like another horus heresy bad. So now I know A isn't the case, and apparantly what they did didn't have to be that bad. If Lorgar's fear is anything to go by, maybe they were just overly zealous? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 They broke one of the Emperors rules, we just have to figure out which ones We know two of the rules that can get you expunged are 1) Being religous and 2) Using psychic powers Some of his rules are i) Being Religous ii) Using psychic powers iii) Dealing with Xenos iv) Allowing a world to go unconquored v) Working with AI vi) Not fighting hard enough vii) Trying to figure out how you work viii) Asking for more pocket money ix) Running in the Throne room I am sure there are more rules Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2783931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 They have probably willingly opposed Emperor's ideology which is the worst kind of offense. Lorgar's did it unintentionally and he almost found himself down in the crapper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2783938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 ix) Running in the Throne room Hahaha i can see it now. Emperor: DAMN IT WHAT HAVE I TOLD YOU, NO RUNNING! Magnus: I AM TWO HUNDRED YEARS OLD YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO ANYMORE... Emperor: YOUR NEVER TOO OLD FOR A SPANKING *raises hand menacingly* *Magnus flees* Emperor: I SAID NO RUNNING! *Magnus flees at a fast walk* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2783943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas VOTE Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 I could be remembering wrong, but in one of the first three books (i think) didn't the Luna Wolves go to some alien world and they landed and everything was cool for a bit? I seem to remember a scene were Garviel Loken was walking around the palace with some of the xenos and just talking. Maybe this was a human world that wasn't compliant... It just seems like there is more to the story. Lorgar and Magnus were religious and used psychic powers but were given a stern warning. And at least in Lorgar's case the threat was more against him than against his entire legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2783944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Maybe one of them did something really stupid and got canned for it Missing Primarch: “Err Dad, Can I have a new fleet please, and when you are at it my legion needs replacing and those small things. What do you call them. You know like look like marines but are smaller.. Men, that is it men. I also need a new army group” Emperor: “Why do you need all of those things, I have you your own expedition just last year” MP: “Well you see I had a slight accident. You see there was a black hole and...” E: “You flew an entire expedition into a black hole!” MP: “I didn’t see it. It was black, space was black, my ships were black. So can I have a new expedition?” E: “No you can’t. In fact you are going into that black hole to find my fleet that you have lost and bring it back. Those things are not cheap.” MP: “Aww dad, come on it is dark in there.” E: “I don’t care. You go into that black hole and do as you are told, or you are grounded.” Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2783957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas VOTE Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Lol thats definitely what happened. And is it just me or does the forum say 5 (now 6) responses but 0 views? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2783989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 The views update every 15 minutes, if I remember correctly, so the views won't show up until then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2783996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 1) Well it is possible that they just got lost in the webway during some earlie experiment. Accidentally destroying a legion would be a great reason to expunge it's records to cover-up that fact. 2) they were sent to nearby galaxies to do something and may even have had limited contact at the time of the heresy but would if they still exist be totaly out of contact now. 3) even though its presently stated otherwise the legion of the damned, also Sigmar. Both against fluff right now. 4) they never existed it was done just to try to keep the primarchs in line. Much like when people tell little kids lies to frighten them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas VOTE Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Options 1 and 2 don't work imo because in First heretic Magnus alludes to lorgars actions being in some way similar to the 2 destroyed legions, so the legions had to have done something... and 4 doesn't work because they lost two brothers, as stated in first heretic. They imo that confirms that at some point there were 20 primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Adam Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I think they where from one of those colonies that lived with a xenos species kind of like a symbiotic relationship or partnership. And the refusal to destroy their perfect relationship caused the emperor to take em out and take their legion and re appropriate them to macragge. I also think it will be adressed in the Horus heresy novels, theres been too much pointing it out for them to never answer it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas VOTE Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Thats possible. And that would make an epic climax during the final battle on Terra. The Emperor has a final confession or something and expresses sorrow for what he did to the two legions, explaining in detail what happened. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Thats possible. And that would make an epic climax during the final battle on Terra. The Emperor has a final confession or something and expresses sorrow for what he did to the two legions, explaining in detail what happened. Completely ruining the fluff in the process. Sadly, I can see it happening. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Emperor won't do such lame stuff. Getting yourself killed due to undeserved mercy is stupid enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguineSon Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I think in all likelihood, whatever their offence was it would have to be pretty bad. Both Magnus and Lorgar disobeyed direct orders from the Emperor and neither of them were destroyed for it or at least weren't intended to be destroyed ( thanks a lot Horus ). If they could get away with just a reprimand albeit a very sever one, then the missing two primarchs actions must have bordered on or completely crossed the line of out right heresy. I'm guessing there would have to be some willful attack on the Imperium on the part of the missing two since idealogical differences were not enough to warrant an order of destruction by the Emperor in the cases of Magnus and Lorgar. My guess is the beliefs of the legion distanced them from the Imperium more and more and bred resentment until it culminated in a attack. At that point they were declared renegade but didn't have the strength to hold of against an assault from another legion and were summarily destroyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas VOTE Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 This might be random, but maybe they attacked each other? Throughout the Horus Heresy series there are mentions of how unthinkable it is that a brother would attack another astartes and yadda yadda. Maybe the two legions attacked one another and that was a no-no with the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Maybe one of them did something really stupid and got canned for it Missing Primarch: “Err Dad, Can I have a new fleet please, and when you are at it my legion needs replacing and those small things. What do you call them. You know like look like marines but are smaller.. Men, that is it men. I also need a new army group” Emperor: “Why do you need all of those things, I have you your own expedition just last year” MP: “Well you see I had a slight accident. You see there was a black hole and...” E: “You flew an entire expedition into a black hole!” MP: “I didn’t see it. It was black, space was black, my ships were black. So can I have a new expedition?” E: “No you can’t. In fact you are going into that black hole to find my fleet that you have lost and bring it back. Those things are not cheap.” MP: “Aww dad, come on it is dark in there.” E: “I don’t care. You go into that black hole and do as you are told, or you are grounded.” They weren't black holes, just grit on the scanner. How can you be ambushed by three black holes? With apologies to Red Dwarf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiberium40k Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I also think it will be adressed in the Horus heresy novels, theres been too much pointing it out for them to never answer it I really, really hope they never answer it. What they gave out in the last several books is more then enough already. Thats possible. And that would make an epic climax during the final battle on Terra. The Emperor has a final confession or something and expresses sorrow for what he did to the two legions, explaining in detail what happened. I this happens, I give up on WH40k forever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I think in all likelihood, whatever their offence was it would have to be pretty bad. Both Magnus and Lorgar disobeyed direct orders from the Emperor and neither of them were destroyed for it or at least weren't intended to be destroyed ( thanks a lot Horus ). If they could get away with just a reprimand albeit a very sever one, then the missing two primarchs actions must have bordered on or completely crossed the line of out right heresy. I'm guessing there would have to be some willful attack on the Imperium on the part of the missing two since idealogical differences were not enough to warrant an order of destruction by the Emperor in the cases of Magnus and Lorgar. My guess is the beliefs of the legion distanced them from the Imperium more and more and bred resentment until it culminated in a attack. At that point they were declared renegade but didn't have the strength to hold of against an assault from another legion and were summarily destroyed. Actually, Lorgar was almost destroyed. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it), after discussing it with other Primarchs, the Emperor decided to be merciful instead, and merely destroyed his most prized achievement, and permanently attached Custodes "minders" to Lorgar's fleets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2784919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droma Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 In Prospero Burns Russ also makes mention in passing about being used as the emperors ultimate sanction before, implying it was his legion that wiped out the two missing ones. Lorgar was almost wiped out but the emperor changed his mind and put him on probation, if the custodes thought he was lacking though his legion would have been wiped out in that probation period. IMO, and this coincides with some others opinions, the two legions had to have broken the rules or there would have been no point to keeping quiet about it. I think it's very possible that when those primarchs were discovered they had either mutated(and not the angel wings like sanguinas) or they were tampered with/in league with xenos of some sort. If the the missing legions had gone traitor with all the hints tossed about already I know we would have heard some marine saying, "how could this happen again/I hope it doesn't happen again" or something along those lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2785242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguineSon Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Actually, Lorgar was almost destroyed. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it), after discussing it with other Primarchs, the Emperor decided to be merciful instead, and merely destroyed his most prized achievement, and permanently attached Custodes "minders" to Lorgar's fleets. Either way the fact is they were spared even if it was just because the Emperor had a change of heart. No such luck for our two missing Primarchs. There must be a reason why Lorgar was shown mercy and his brothers weren't. Hence a more sever infraction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2785591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Some of his rules are i) Being Religous ii) Using psychic powers iii) Dealing with Xenos iv) Allowing a world to go unconquored v) Working with AI vi) Not fighting hard enough vii) Trying to figure out how you work viii) Asking for more pocket money ix) Running in the Throne room Ohhh...I like that one. Perhaps one of the Primarchs was a Ferrus or Perturarbo sort of character with more affinity for software than hardware. A few poor decisions and suddenly you've got a legion with sentient Power Armor and tanks and some crazy techno-Matrix demigod Primarch in need of purging. Of course in that scenario, Russ, as the exterminator, would be Keanu Reeves. :P :D Think I'm gonna have to work on that. Should be fun to see folks in the Liber with 'sploding heads for using a Lost Primarch as a plot device :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2785956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Gladius Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Could it be something as simple as...........they were dispersed with their 18 brothers, across the galaxy, and when the emporar landed to welcome them back into the fold, they either were dead, or didnt accept him. After all, they are primarchs and likely to be top dog on their respective worlds, then some bigger better guy comes along and says work for me, some might rather stay being big fish and small pond. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2785969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I think all 20 primarchs actually took part in the Great Crusade, then two of them went AWOL/died/killed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2785981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith IV Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 They were both found and Crusaded, both had statues in the Emperor's Palace on Terra. They can't have wiped each other out as in 'The Lightning Tower' it is stated that "thier seperate tragedies had seemed like berrations". Note: SEPERATE tragedies. The purge occurred at least 43 years before Isstvan III, and the 2 legions are not supposed to be talked about as the Emperor swore the Primarchs to silence but are referred to as the "forgotten and the purged". It's unclear whether the forgotten and purged are 2 seperate legions, or a collective label for the two. I've always entertained the idea that one probably dealt with Xenos in some way. Also that one was a Pariah, or after reading Nemesis, even a Black Pariah. I quite like the idea of AI though... Lorgar was very nearly purged, his brothers supported him because at least in the case of Russ they didn't want to lose another brother. Magnus may well have been purged, depending on what happened when he was brought peacefully by Russ to Terra. There would have been some kind of consequence, but thank to Horus we will probably never know. As for Russ teasing about attacking another Legion, I'm doubtful. For one thing, setting a legion on another being "unprecedented" and having done it before are NOT the same thing. Also, the rumour about the Ultramarines absorbing another Legion in the First Heretic has been stated by A D-B to be just that: a rumour, not fact. The books are written from points of view that do not know anything, Russ might have been having a laugh. I think it's fairly unlikely that they will reveal the fates of the 2 missing legions/primarchs as it doesn't seem directly relevant to the Heresy. There probably will be a few more hints dropped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231436-maybe-the-two-legions-werent-that-bad/#findComment-2786049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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