The_son_of_Dorn Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Which is why to me Pertuabo should of been the big E's right hand man, he was scientific and knowledgeable but lacked 'the stength of faith; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I agree with the Emperor’s insight that religious worship of a concept which is other than universal and prefect is and can be very problematic. I do not agree that the Emperor’s extreme actions were justified. The actions were especially unjustified with regards to Prospero, demonstrating a fanatic will that overshadowed the sacred need to embody knowledge. Prospero wasn't attacked because of the Emperor, it was attacked because of Horus. IIRC, Horus was the one that convinced Russ to actually attack, where as the Emperor just wanted Magnus brought back to Terra to answer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.71828 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I agree with regards to Horus intercepting the Emperors message. However, the Emperor in all his glory, did not seek to prevent this (yes, I know, webway project)– more so, he did not keep a leash on his hounds, who, clearly - struggled with common sense and clearly would act in such a way that would involve the destruction of another chapter in the near future. The space wolves should never have been involved – that is like asking a police dog to arrest a felon but not harm him. The Wolves seem closer to Khorne than to the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Well, if Emperor dispatched SW it clearly means he wanted Magnus dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Engel Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Well, if Emperor dispatched SW it clearly means he wanted Magnus dead. Untrue. Russ' orders to destroy came from Horus. He was told to bring Magnus to account. Read AD-B's comments about the World Eaters. The Wolves were sent because they could be counted on by the Emperor to control themselves and bring Magnus back to Terra. The World Eaters or Night Lords (other candidates for the Emperor's policemen) couldn't have been made to 'heel.' Horus instant-messaged Russ en route and said "Hey Russy boy, kill them all." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 It's strange that Emperor sends his executioners to fetch a Primarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broker Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 It's strange that Emperor sends his executioners to fetch a Primarch. Self proclaimed executioners. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Russ says he always gets the dirty works so i guess Emperor kinda agrees with their self proclaimation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Well, if Emperor dispatched SW it clearly means he wanted Magnus dead. Untrue. Russ' orders to destroy came from Horus. He was told to bring Magnus to account. Read AD-B's comments about the World Eaters. The Wolves were sent because they could be counted on by the Emperor to control themselves and bring Magnus back to Terra. The World Eaters or Night Lords (other candidates for the Emperor's policemen) couldn't have been made to 'heel.' Horus instant-messaged Russ en route and said "Hey Russy boy, kill them all." well, this has become less clear cut in recent years, and in some cases, completely the opposite. the Collected Visions has this to say on the matter, page 98: The Emperor called to hsi side the Primarch Leman Russ of the Space Wolves. Russ and Magnus were old rivals and there was some bitterness between them. The Emperor commanded Russ to move on Prospero and persecute the rebel Primarch, His orders were clear; the Primarch and his Thousand Sons were consorting with the warp in direct contradiction of personal instruction from the Emperor. They should be shown no merrcy!The Emperor despatched the Primarch Leman Russ with his Space Marine LEgion, the Space WOlves, to the planet of Prospero to prosecute the arch-heretic Magnus the Red. The primarch's orders were to destroy the Red Sorcerer and his Thousand Sons Legion. The Thousand Sons had been judged and found guilty of heretical sorecry and of communing with the warp. To aid Russ, the Emperor loaned his a contingent of his own bodyguard- The Custodian Guard. This was a sure sign that the Primarch's mission had the full authority of the Emperor. Accompnaying Russ was a fleet of black ships, with orders to carry back to Terra any psykers or sorcerers left on the planet after the Thousand Sons had been dealth with. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Within the Black Library HH series, where does it actually say that Horus changed Russ' orders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Ahh, yet more proof of the Collected Visions books screwing around with canon for absolutely no reason whatsoever... Russ says he always gets the dirty works Night Haunter would beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sazabi24 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Within the Black Library HH series, where does it actually say that Horus changed Russ' orders? ‘But what of Magnus?’ asked Maloghurst urgently, ‘What happenswhen Leman Russ returns him to Terra?’ Horus smiled. ‘Calm yourself, Mal. I have already contacted my brother Russ and illuminated him with the full breadth of Magnus’s treacherous use of daemonic spells and conjurations. He was... suitably angry, and I believe I have convinced him that to return Magnus to Terra would be a waste of time and effort.’ Maloghurst returned Horus’s smile. ‘Magnus will not leave Prospero alive.’ ‘No,’ agreed Horus. ‘He will not.’ False Gods pg. 342 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Cheers, Sazabi. Horus didn't actually change the orders then, just convinced Russ to ignore the orders. It's all well and good saying that the Emperor sent Russ to collect Magnus, but he sent Russ with his entire legion, plus custodes, plus sisters - enough force to destroy virtually any legion. The Emperor could probably have simply summoned Magnus if he wanted to try him, or send Russ alone (or with an honour guard). To me, it is clear that the Emperor's intention was to destroy the Thousand Sons. The Thousand Sons only crime was the use of forbidden sorcery, not outright heresy. They were loyal to the Emperor and would have accepted any punishment meted out. It's like the Emperor sent Russ on his way with a wink and nod and heavy use of inverted commas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Night Haunter would beg to differ. No reason to bring your hatred of SW's potrayal and NL here since they are irrelevant. NL are not equipped to exterminate another Astartes legion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Night Haunter would beg to differ. No reason to bring your hatred of SW's potrayal and NL here since they are irrelevant. NL are not equipped to exterminate another Astartes legion anyway. I didn't intend it that way. I just meant that Night Haunter certainly seemed to believe that the Emperor tasked him with the massacres and atrocities he committed, whether that was actually the truth or not. We have Russ claiming he always got the dirty work, and Night Haunter saying everything he did was ordered of him, so Russ can't have gotten all of the dirty work. I know the Night Lords probably weren't the best suited to the task, but we're taking the opinion of one Primarch against anothers. Russ didn't do all of the Emperors dirty work. Angron did a fair bit (mostly unsanctioned though), as did the Night Lords (arguably sanctioned, if we believe certain sources), and the Death Guard. After all, to get a reputation amongst the most feared of Primarchs, you have to be doing something pretty damned nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Not sure how this topic got into a circular debate about Russ, SW's, NL's and GW confusing fluff changes. Closing due to this and the original question will not lead to an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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