Fluff in a new DA codex

[Droma]

I know we have had a lot of threads and even a whole section of our forum dedicated to coming up with possible rules and units for a new DA codex. What I haven't seen though is anything discussing what we would like to see fluff wise. We pretty much know things will have to change somewhat in order to fit in new units but how do we want the DA to change overall?

 

So some possible discussion points would be

 

1. What overall theme do we want emphasized with the DA? (example ba=blood, sw=wolf/viking)

 

2. How do we want existing units to change? What knew feats of heroism must our dark angels accomplish to draw equal with our brothers in other chapters once again?

 

3. If you have a unit that you would really like to see in the new codex explain how they would fit into the DA fluff, how do they fit within our circles?

 

 

My ideas to go with those so far would be...

 

1. I'd want GW to focus on our knightly theme, especially the way its written by ADB in Savage Weapons. Instead of companies we have orders, instead of company champions we have paladin of the #th order. I'd like to see a bigger focus on sword use to go along with the knight theme as well. Including some sort of two handed swords possibly relic blades for certain units. I just really like the imagery of these dark armored, robed knights striding across the field hacking down our enemies with masterful strokes.

 

2. I'm not sure how any specific unit as a whole should change but I would like to see some updated battles where the DA took a prominent role in a major conflict. Our big fight seemed to be Piscina against Ghazghkull but that was pretty minor compared to fighting the hive fleets like the UM, or Armageddon for the SW/BT, or the over the top stuff like draigo, mephiston, or sanguinor. I know there is a small amount of fluff on what the DA did in the most recent black crusade and I think that would be a cool story to add to the codex.

 

3. I know of a couple units I'd like to see added to the DA but I'm not sure how they'd fit into the fluff. DA fluff outside of the fallen seems to be so threadbare that it's hard to add something without it seeming random.

 

 

Edit: I just have a few gripes about current DA fluff that annoy me a little bit. One is that we know how awesome Calgar, Dante, and Logan are but our codex contains nothing of Azreal accomplishments. The only fluff I've found on Azreal is in an imperial armour and even in there he's about to be killed by a CSM. Belial is an awesome warrior and leader of the deathwing but his major story is Piscina where Ghazkull almost kills him and he only wins by out thinking a damn ork. Sammy is the only leader we have that is even remotely portrayed as a badass. I'm not saying I want their fluff to be over the top but I do want to read about how they great warriors and not just oh he almost got killed but he's still cool for no reasons we're going to give you. I love the DA to death but that little thing just bugs me. I know our leaders are awesome but I want the fluff to actually reflect that for a change.

[RaiderJoe]

I just hope jervis doesn't crawl out from that rock he's been under and nerf the DA. AGAIN. As an example just because everyone else has gotten out of hand.

 

He's been doing it to us since the "Angels of Death" dual 'dex. I was furious with that because you could compare side by side how inferior the DA were to the BA.

 

I hope when they do redo the DA, he's left out of the loop. I can't take another jervis'ing.

[exsulis81]

JJ really just needs to be fired out of a cannon into OUTER SPACE.

 

Theme wise I'd like to see more of our Arthurian Mythology return to the forefront, and hunting the fallen.

[Droma]

This is not a complaint thread guys. Lets not go bashing certain authors and just write about what WE would like to see.

[Candleshoes]

According to the current codex, Belial has led the Deathwing for less than two years, arguably, for only a single year. He is a new kid on the block when compared to other characters of equal status in other chapters of legend.

 

In the new codex, I honestly hope they really nail out a solidified vision of what the Dark Angels theme is in the 40,000 universe. Knightly themes are really covered by Grey Knight and soon to be redone Black Templars, and the Dark Angels no longer have the Calabanite history to really see it pushed in that direction. What single step forward makes Dark Angels its own unique theme that warrants them to be a stand alone book? Over the course of time, we saw the development of the Deathwing / Native American take, with feathers and symbolic names, we have seen monastic and gothic, we have seen dark ages, we have seen more changes than most other first founding chapters.

 

How they will re-introduce a cohesive vision of their theme is beyond me.

[Brother Degas]

Id like to see the DA take a darker tone and become more of the anti-hero chapter. Still knightly and honorable but not afraid to cross the line and do whats right to win a battle, i.e. kill 1000's to save 1,000,000's etc.

 

They have a unique duality of character and purpose and Id like to see that explored more, not just individual awesome warriors that are rip-offs trying to compete with other chapters, but a more intellectual exploration of into the reasons they dont fall, their strength of character etc not just big battles.

 

reason for edit:spelling

[Pavement Artist]

I think the best thing you could hope for is that any tonality the book takes, is implemented in a fairly understated manner. The over abundance of "wolf" or "Blood" tacked on to several pieces of wargear is a bit embarrassing at times.

 

You have one of the most complex and intriguing chapter histories of them all. I sincerely hope they dont go overboard with any particular theme.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Dark death

Dark Ravens

Dark swords

Dark Dreads

Dark Mortis Dreads

Dark armour

Dark fear

Dark devestator

Dark blasters

Dark plasma

Darkma

Dark dark...

 

:mellow:

 

Forgot;

Dark fist

Dark hammer

Dark mace

Dark rock

and my personal favourite,

Death darks

[Brother Kovash]

Give me a Mortis Dreadnought so I can justify ordering stuff from Forge World.

[Isiah]

Hey great topic but as you already said Droma we have an ongoing Codex development section where we are already considering units. So, maybe restrict this one to fluff developments/ideas so we don't do everything twice :) .

 

Maybe think about:

• Successors
  
• History revealed
  
• Other, (ahem) 'stuff'
  

 

Cheers

I

[spartanacus]

Since this is a 'what would you like to see' rather than 'what do you think will actually happen' thread, I'd like to see an advancement of the storyline.

 

Cypher is very interesting in that little is known about his origins or his motives. What is his end-game?

 

We also have crazy Luther and a whole mess of 'Fallen' locked away in the depths of The Rock yelling craziness. There is a treasure trove of dramatic material to utilize. But what really makes the DA unique to the other chapters is that we are just one-tiny-step from heresy all the time. The sole purpose of redeeming the chapter by finding all the Fallen makes us the most willing to take that tiny step in order to keep the big-bad-secret a secret and continue. It's a desperate struggle, and ambiguous. I dig that about the DA and is primarily why I've been loyal.

 

Say an Inquisitor gets too inquisitive and gleans enough information to incriminate the entire DA, maybe he gets inside and has a chat with a Fallen, whatever, but is trying to escape to report back to the Inquisition. So now the DA are faced with having their deep-dark secret revealed unless they eliminate an honest-to-emperor servant of the Imperium. That, is a dilemma and true to the Grimdark theme.

[Raibaru]

I want them to drop the native american theme entirely and go with the knightly order angle personally. I'd also like to see them flesh out the background, the fallen, the lion, and how he perceived the emperor. The HH books kinda show that he was loyal, but not the most trustworthy character, but by and large the HH books have sucked. Let the codex really paint the proper picture. It would be nice to know that the DA aren't hunting down the fallen to atone for anything, but to keep their agenda a secret while the continue to try and claim what Johnson failed to.

 

And I just want to say, I would absolutely kill to see a unit of robed veterans in power armor with 2handed power swords. I wouldn't care what the rules were like. I just want this unit on the table. And real robed terminators would be a welcome addition to the line.

[Captain Semper]

Very intersting topic.

 

I'm kind of concerned about the knightly theme... I mean yes, DAs used to be knights. The ones in Caliban that is. But all the imagery associated with the "medivial" knight I think is no longer relevant. nI a sense DA have fallen in this respect. Let me explain.

 

DA used to adhere to a knightly code of honor and they were very much the archetypal knightly order: noble, self sacrificing, fighting for the greater good. Although there were some shadows even back then. But now they are a Chapter/Legion that is after its own agenda - it will go the great lenghts to preserve its secrets and in fact preserve its self. Because morally (according to their own view anyway) they are at fault. They have moved from the noble knight image to the darker Spanish Inquisition like image. Where Chaplains are Interoggators and were circles upon circles destroy the concept of equality between brothers.

 

So Orders? YES. Knightly Orders? NO. More like self-righteous warrior monk orders where traditional values have been replaced with an overriding dark agenda that will justify all means to an end. In fact some of the successors could either amplify this (Disciples of Caliban anyone? this guys are the ultimate DA secret police) or move towards the more noble past (Angels of Absolution?). That will keep all players happy.

 

Again this is fluff. I do not beleive that all fluff should somehow be represented in the rules.

[Droma]

@Captain Semper

 

I don't see any reason the DA can't encompass both aspects. The higher levels within the chapter know those secrets but that vast majority of the brothers do not. Not to mention space marines are nothing if not sticklers for tradition. I see no reason why they wouldn't keep their knightly traditions alive and well. Even the most diehard fallen hunters in the highest ranks of the DA are noble defenders of humanity. If the DA didn't have the threat of the fallen hanging over their heads I'm pretty sure they would be very similar to the templars except with more control.

 

Let's also not forget that a knightly tradition is also a martial tradition and it would definitely affect the way they DA train themselves for war. They are champions who love the trial of arms of personal combat. They are skilled at working with their brothers to leave no gaps open in their defense. They train with gun and sword equally so they remain flexible in their tactics. I don't really see anything there that wouldn't lend itself to hunting/capturing the fallen.

[Captain Semper]

You are right of course. Please don't mistake my post as a call to make DA just Fallen hunters. They ARE defenders of humanity - probably better at it than most (we are the 1st after all!!!). But I really want the "hidden agenda" theme to sort of "lessen" the otherwise high qualities of DAs. To be there to counterbanlance the "noble" facade. If the knightly image becomes too prelevant then the perception of the "Dark" aspect of Dark Angels might be toned down. And I just don't want this to happen. Sure the martial aspect is dominant in medivial knight imagery, and certainly won't clash with the dark image of the chapter but so is the sacrifice for the greater good, equality and brotherhood (genuinly "good" attributes) that could potentially clash. Are DA a brotherhood in an Arthurian knight sense? I don't think so... Not when you have brothers keeping secters from brothers when you have brothers advancing in secert sociaties above to what their chapter rank could imply or when the high echelons do not trust even their peers 100%. Therefore a dark ages monastic order image is more appealing compared to say an Arthurian knight. No round tables here (I hope).

[shabbadoo]

No knightly orders. Never had 'em, never will. Caliban had knightly orders, not the Dark Angels. Only a comparative handful of of Calibanites were even taken into the Legion, and Lion saw the different knightly orders as one of the main problems on Caliban. That's kind of why he formed THE Order, so as to bring them all into one group and end all of the divisive crap that was going on.

 

If you look at the background, including the latest fluff on the Horus Heresy, the Caliban "ideal" was left behind by the Lion, and he took wholeheartedly to his new Legion. Not able to leave their sense of self importance behind(ultimately the shortcoming that led to treachery and the destruction of Caliban), the inducted Calibanite Dark Angels looked down on the Terran Dark Angels. Much of the Calibanite experience has to do with what the Dark Angels are today, and it certainly isn't the Calibanite culture and its knightly orders that got passed on, but devotion to something greater than what you once were. This is shown in the penitent warrior monk aspect of the Chapter, and the knightly orders bit is markedly absent. It should remain so, as it is what exemplifies the Dark Angels.

 

Besides, two other Chapters are already all over the knight thing, and humping it like dog on a leg- Black Templars and Grey Knights. There are many reasons not to play up any sort of of knightly orders theme for the Dark Angels.

[phosis21]

I see a lot of the Knights Templar in the Dark Angels. Of course they were a Knightly Order, like the Hospitallers (Black Templars) and the Knights of Jerusalem (Grey Knights) but they also had their hands in WAY more than most Orders did. Banking, spying, power-behind-the-throne-stuff, assassination. They were way more developed than their peers, and they had MANY secrets. Including the Brethren, a sort of Inner Circle of brother Knights that drove events all over the Middle East and Europe behind the scenes in their own view of what would bring peace.

 

They had this whole plan written down too, in a Tome, most of it was heretical (at the time), and if it had been made public it would have shattered the Templar's credibility. Only a handful of Templars even knew about the Tome. The books I've read (about half historical "conjectural fiction" based on true accounts, but filling in the details to make it more interesting, and the other-half heresay or pure conjecture based on circumstantial evidence) paint a picture of a situation very similar to that the Dark Angels find themselves in. They exist to fight wars, but the higher ups are concerned with covering up a truly embarrassing secret that most of the Order doesn't even know about, which leads to some very odd orders.

_________________________

Sorry about that Tangent, there's certainly an argument for some level of Knightly-ness, but I agree that the BTs and GKs have that whole thing solidly covered.

 

But Robed, Winged Angel imagery is very common. And of the four named Special Characters, two are Devils and two are Archangels (Belial, Samael, and Ezekiel, Azrael respectively) from Judeo-Christian Apocrypha (Contemporary writings that weren't included in the Bible). Its all very Old Testamenty, and fall of Lucifer/War-in-Heaven...y. I like, no LOVE this about DA. I think Angels of Death/Archangels and Angelic Imagery should play a major role in its future. I see no place for Native American...anything in the Lore.

 

The poem Dark Angel by 19th century English poet Lionel Johnson (about 2/3s down the screen The Dark Angel) seems to give us an idea of what the writers at GW used as their inspiration. I'm no English Major, and I particularly dislike everything to come out of England in the 19th century, but the poem seems to speak of a sort of Catch 22, the Angel is an agent of "Good" but he seems to do "Evil", at least from the point of view of the Author, but at the same time the Angel does God's bidding, so objectively the Angel MUST be doing Good...right?

 

I especially liked

Thou art the whisper in the gloom,

The hinting tone, the haunting laugh:

Thou art the adorner of my tomb,

The minstrel of mine epitaph.

 

Anyway, my point is, all of this can, and in my mind SHOULD color the Dark Angels new fluff, Angels of Death, the Rust beneath the Gilding, the constant Catch-22 of protecting the Empire at large, or doing the "small evil" of shirking that duty to ensure that the "greater good" [the continued existence of Dark Angels] can continue, Azrael literally translates to Angel of Death in Hebrew, and it'd be very interesting to see how many innocents he'd condemn to protect the Chapter's Secret or root out a Fallen. It'd be a hell of a read if they tried to work with subjectivity of "good", how a shift in perspective can turn a situation upside down. I'd also like to see The Watchers in the Dark make a return to the table top as something more than a nifty robed midget following Azrael around.

 

Wow...that got a lot longer than I'd ever wanted it to be, but the Dark Angels have some of the deepest fluff around and its some of my favorite, its naked favoritism, but I think it goes far beyond "We're space vikings, and we like drinkin' and fightin'!" or "We're REALLY pretty, but flawed. WANNA FIGHT ABOUT IT?!" or "See, they put Ultra in our name so you'd know we were the best."

[exsulis81]

No knightly orders. Never had 'em, never will. Caliban had knightly orders, not the Dark Angels. Only a comparative handful of of Calibanites were even taken into the Legion, and Lion saw the different knightly orders as one of the main problems on Caliban. That's kind of why he formed THE Order, so as to bring them all into one group and end all of the divisive crap that was going on.

 

That is technically wrong with the last DA HH novel, and the Angel of Darkness novel as well. There were a large amount in the thousands of Caliban marines, and the knightly orders were a mark of their heritage. We also had perfected the training, and generation of new battle brother quicker than any other legion. So new Caliban marines would have been filing ranks very quickly for many a year.

 

Besides, two other Chapters are already all over the knight thing, and humping it like dog on a leg- Black Templars and Grey Knights. There are many reasons not to play up any sort of of knightly orders theme for the Dark Angels.

 

The BT are more of a Crusading knight order than your knights templar, and the Grey knights aren't very knightly at all.

 

Where-as the DA have very much been a Arthurian themed with the lost king who will return when needed, and the betrayal of that order.

 

Our mighty Deathwing is the only section that would possibly have the native american theme, and it really doesn't make any sense that it exists other than to continue the epic paint scheme(and that story) change from black to stuff that pops off the board.

[RobotDwarf]

As far as theme goes, I hope they move away from the overbearing focus on the Fallen (ie Deathwing and Ravenwing). I feel it's a crutch thats preventing the real development of the storyline surrounding our beloved DAs. I was speaking to a friend the other day and he kept referring to the army as the Deathwing...not the Dark Angels. I'm not saying DW and RW aren't an important part of the background, but the majority of the chapter has no idea what's really going on and to focus so much of our fluff on that specific agenda leaves the rest of the lads with no development.

 

I hope the newer fluff (and mini sculpts) reflect the no-nonsense approach to battle that I have always sensed in the Dark Angels. They should be reflected as ruthless, death dealing soldiers who accomplish their goals by any means necessary. A few of the others who posted above me have already touched on the anti-hero aspect and I heartily second this line of thinking. Above all they should be scary. Scary enough that the mutant chaos freaks who have taken over <insert random imperial world name> crap their pants when the Rock shows up. Not only should the enemy be scared, but the loyal population should be afraid as well. THAT kind of scary.

 

And as popular as they are, I wish the whole "wearing robes to battle" thing goes away. Robes are great...for wearing around your house and/or monastery. Wear them to ceremonies or special occasions, but leave them in the closet when you take the field.

 

Following that line of thought, it would be nice to see the DA portrayed as heavily monastic. If the Space Wolves are the Mans Man, make the Dark Angels the Monks Monk, if that makes sense. Have them spend parts of each day in study of ancient texts and archaic information (an easy way for the Inner Circle to use the bulk of the chapter to search for clues without having to let on to what is really going down and also a way to reinforce the Librarians role within the chapter) as well as more of a focus on meditation and introspection. Jonson was one of, if not the best, tactician amongst the primarchs. His sons should posess keen minds as well as strong arms. DA are supposed to have wills of iron and their story should portray this aspect.

 

I know, ramble, ramble, ramble. :rolleyes: I have some more info to impart but...must....go back to work.

 

I'll be following this thread closely as many of the ideas brought forth so far are top notch! Keep the ideas flowing!

[Captain Semper]

@ Robotdwarf:

 

So wait a minute...

 

You want to take out the visual difference (robes), to tone down the deathwing/ravenwing/fallen theme, and instead you want them to be scary? As opposed to what? All marines are a scary opponent to their enemies and equally awesome and scary to the Imperial citizens. In fact generations go by without even seeing a marine... If they actually ever come accross one do you think they'll go: woa green marines -these are really scary... not like the conginial red marines! Personally I think Imperial citizens will be scared regardless.

 

My point is: you want to take away/tone down all the defining aspects of DAs and replace them with the really generic "fearsome" image that can be claimed (rightfully) by any chapter. Why?

 

I understand when people don't want to have the Fallen theme overiding everything DAs are about. That's fine. But the Fallen are why DAs have any real reason to differ from a Codex chapter. So tone them down too much and you end up with any vanilla chapter that has slightly odd history (like all of them really - just look at the recent Imperial Armour books 9 & 10. Most (all?) of the chapters there have some kind of dark/irregular/undisclosed past).

[shabbadoo]

No knightly orders. Never had 'em, never will. Caliban had knightly orders, not the Dark Angels. Only a comparative handful of of Calibanites were even taken into the Legion, and Lion saw the different knightly orders as one of the main problems on Caliban. That's kind of why he formed THE Order, so as to bring them all into one group and end all of the divisive crap that was going on.

That is technically wrong with the last DA HH novel, and the Angel of Darkness novel as well. There were a large amount in the thousands of Caliban marines, and the knightly orders were a mark of their heritage. We also had perfected the training, and generation of new battle brother quicker than any other legion. So new Caliban marines would have been filing ranks very quickly for many a year.

By the time the Emperor arrived on Caliban, there was only one knightly order. Sure, the training resulted in some very well prepared recruits, especially as they trained using their own modified versions of standard space marine gear- bolt pistols, chainswords, power armor. A thousand to two thousand among a Legion numbering over 10,000 is not a majority by any means. New Caliban marines were not filling the ranks for many a year. They recruit every generation, not every year. Recruiting from staggered generation would be a slight stretch, but not a big one, and seeing as joining the Legion was such a new and prestigious thing, that would likely have happened. Even still, there would have only been a few recruitments from Caliban before its destruction.

 

Anyways, it is sort of hard to bring back a knightly theme that the Dark Angels never had. The Dark Angels Legion was formed up along the Emperor's guidelines. The only variance from that has been in the formation of the Deathwing and Ravenwing. There is a distinct t lack of knightliness there to bring back.

 

A few of the others who posted above me have already touched on the anti-hero aspect and I heartily second this line of thinking. Above all they should be scary. Scary enough that the mutant chaos freaks who have taken over <insert random imperial world name> crap their pants when the Rock shows up. Not only should the enemy be scared, but the loyal population should be afraid as well. THAT kind of scary.

The Dark Angels are held in awe by Imperial citizens. They are only afraid of them as much as they would be of any other Chapter. What you describe is actually the reputation of the Night Lords/Nighthaunter, and more recently of the Flesh Tearers, who were and are feared because of that they have been known to do to the people they actually protect. What you describe doesn't fit the Dark Angels at all. They have the usual reputation among the general Imperial citizenry that space marines have. But among those who know the Astartes well will be those who note their taciturn and guarded demeanor, know the awe inspiring reputation of the Deathwing, and perhaps also know of the Dark Angels reputation for occasionally ditching out on their allies without explanation, leaving them to their fate, which has not served to inspire fear but dislike, or even outright hatred. Fear of the Dark Angels? Not so much.

[Droma]

I know I keep arguing the Arthurian knight theme but I also don't want to take away from the fallen theme seeing as it is very core to what it is to be a Dark Angel. I want our chapter to be deeper and broader I guess. The fallen is a very narrow focus that only gets reflected in the organization of the highest ranks of the chapter(which we don't see on the tabletop) and the first and second companies. I just think that is too narrow and in order to expand on what the rest of the chapter is about I think they need a second theme and I'd like it to be the Arthurian knight that we've been seeing a lot of in the HH books.

 

You of the things I think we should keep in mind is what do the DA have left when all the fallen are captured/killed? They have to have something else going for them or they will become extremely boring extremely quickly. I also don't want us to be defined by a single thing like every other chapter is. The DA are deeper than that and I'd really like it expressed.

[Droma]

By the time the Emperor arrived on Caliban, there was only one knightly order. Sure, the training resulted in some very well prepared recruits, especially as they trained using their own modified versions of standard space marine gear- bolt pistols, chainswords, power armor. A thousand to two thousand among a Legion numbering over 10,000 is not a majority by any means. New Caliban marines were not filling the ranks for many a year. They recruit every generation, not every year. Recruiting from staggered generation would be a slight stretch, but not a big one, and seeing as joining the Legion was such a new and prestigious thing, that would likely have happened. Even still, there would have only been a few recruitments from Caliban before its destruction.

 

Anyways, it is sort of hard to bring back a knightly theme that the Dark Angels never had. The Dark Angels Legion was formed up along the Emperor's guidelines. The only variance from that has been in the formation of the Deathwing and Ravenwing. There is a distinct t lack of knightliness there to bring back.

 

I think you need to go back and read Descent of Angels again. There were still many knightly orders on Caliban at the time the Emperor arrived. They were all working under Johnson and Luther at the time to clear the planet of the beasts 'The Order' couldn't have done it all on its own.

 

Also chapters may recruit roughly every generation but legions certainly didn't. They were shipping new recruits out every year especially as their training methods and organ implantation techniques got better. Also according to current fluff legions number roughly 100,000 troops. You don't hit those numbers without pumping out lots of new trainees.

 

It's also stated in lots of places in the HH books that the Primarchs and the new recruits from their planets introduced many changes and traditions to their legions, so much so that many looked significantly different after their Primarchs joined them.

[Captain Semper]

Anyways, it is sort of hard to bring back a knightly theme that the Dark Angels never had. The Dark Angels Legion was formed up along the Emperor's guidelines. The only variance from that has been in the formation of the Deathwing and Ravenwing. There is a distinct t lack of knightliness there to bring back.

 

The Emperor (to my knowledge) had not any kind of strict guidelines in place for the Legions' organization. Deathwing (as is now) was formed post heresy. The Emperor did not care how many assault squads you have per company or per chapter... This was left up to the Primarchs. So having a lot of bikes (Ravenwing) was not a matter of divergence but preference. Noone would prosecute you for that nor did any Primarch needed to "keep up appearences" with anybody else - This is the post Heresy attitude with the introduction of the Codex Astartes (which was effectively how UM liked to fight).

 

Regarding the knightly theme - I agree. As I said to previous posts DAs warrant special attention by GW not because they are noble knights (like a gazzillion other chapters) but because it is a self rightous secret organization that will potentially put its own ends above that of the Imperium. Because their prectices and ideals are borderline loyal and damnation lurks just around the corner (this Cypher guy, somebody has to stop him!!!)

[shabbadoo]

I think you need to go back and read Descent of Angels again. There were still many knightly orders on Caliban at the time the Emperor arrived. They were all working under Johnson and Luther at the time to clear the planet of the beasts 'The Order' couldn't have done it all on its own.

Yes, I didn't recall that bit quite right. The others were cooperating with The Order, which was heading things up under Lion.

 

Also chapters may recruit roughly every generation but legions certainly didn't. They were shipping new recruits out every year especially as their training methods and organ implantation techniques got better. Also according to current fluff legions number roughly 100,000 troops. You don't hit those numbers without pumping out lots of new trainees.

They didn't form the Legions once the Primarchs were found- the Legions were already formed and fighting for decades and more, and were then presented to the their Primarchs once they were found. The 1st Legion was the Emperor's personal army for decades or more. They didn't build a Legion up once a Primarch was found. A token amount of individuals from the Primarchs' home worlds were inducted as well to, not only to honor the Primarchs' home worlds but further the idea that those worlds are a part of something even greater- the Imperium. Mostly a public relations thing, though it did serve to replenish losses as well. This is not noted anywhere as having been done on a massive scale though, for any chapter. So, they didn't need to "hit those numbers", because those numbers were already there upon the Emperor's arrival on Caliban- he brought them with Him.

 

It's also stated in lots of places in the HH books that the Primarchs and the new recruits from their planets introduced many changes and traditions to their legions, so much so that many looked significantly different after their Primarchs joined them.

Indeed it is, and the only instance of that is in the Deathwing and(arguably) in the Chapter symbol. There is no knight theme. It is of note that Lion was in the process of revolutionizing Caliban's culture as it headed into a time of peace, which also included changing the thinking of the knightly orders. Why? Because he knew that it as flawed and that it needed to changed. But, before that could really begin to take hold, the Emperor arrived and Lion left Caliban. The next time Lion returned, he ended up destroying the planet. All of that homeworld culture and tradition never got a chance to permeate the Legion and take hold like it did for those Chapters whose homeworlds are still the planet that their Primarchs grew up on, such that over 10,000+ years the Legions themselves(which were initially all created on Terra) have adopted the customs of those homeworlds. Those homeworld cultures are ingrained in those Chapters. Space Wolves, Salamanders, etc. are good examples of this. They are all that way due to 10,000 years of not just cultural indoctrination, but also due to the fact that all of the original Terran Legion members are long dead and gone, and that these Chapters, in their entirety, are now composed of individuals who grew up on those homeworlds(i.e. their homeworld culture is the only culture they know). That is why many Chapters exhibit traits and practices that intrinsic to their homeworlds. The Dark Angels never had a chance to have the culture of Caliban become so deeply ingrained into their Legion, and thus into the Chapter and its Successors. As they recruit from multiple feral worlds all with their own variant savage cultures, they implement a different strategy of induction- forget what you once were; all you are now is a Dark Angel.

 

That is why the Dark Angels are not, nor ever were "knights". They have a very unique background not based on what their homeworld was. Their background is based on all that happened in relation to their homeworld, for the short time that the Legion was linked to it at all, and that has carried over for 10,000 years. There is every reason to not make them knights.

 

The Emperor (to my knowledge) had not any kind of strict guidelines in place for the Legions' organization. Deathwing (as is now) was formed post heresy. The Emperor did not care how many assault squads you have per company or per chapter... This was left up to the Primarchs. So having a lot of bikes (Ravenwing) was not a matter of divergence but preference. Noone would prosecute you for that nor did any Primarch needed to "keep up appearances" with anybody else - This is the post Heresy attitude with the introduction of the Codex Astartes (which was effectively how UM liked to fight).

This is not quite true. While the Primarchs were given command of their Legions, ans some did indeed alter them to suit their own preferred fighting methods, the Legions were formed by the Emperor prior to the discovery of the Primarchs. The Legions were the armies that the Emperor created for the Great Crusade, and as each Primarch was found in turn, his Legion was presented to him, and he to his Legion. The Legions were organized into groups of of many Grand Companies each. Each Grand Company was 1,000 men, if I recall correctly, and Legions had even as many as one hundred(perhaps a bit more) of these Grand Companies. The Legions were, quite simply, massive. As the 1st Legions has its genesis as the Emperor's personal army, it undoubtedly was one of the bigger legions. What Roboutte Gulliman did was just shrink down the Legion structure to a Chapter structure(i.e. the Grand Companies of 1,000 marines each were shrunk down to Companies of 100 marines each), and attach a strategy and tactics manual to it. An important undertaking to be sure, but he didn't create the formative structure for the Legions, nor did any other Primarch- the Emperor did before even a single Primarch was found.