ImperialReaper Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 [intro] Dear Bretheren. On a fine summersday I was walking by on my beloved GW-Store in Erfurt. I intentionally wanted to get it to get one of the new finecast emperrors chamions and to ask how to remove backpacks from jumptroops, so i can use them as Blood Angels or as Black Templar Paladines. Much to my regret I found the doors closed - becaust they close the store at 18:00 hours. So I stood there on warm summer evening and took my time to have a closer look at their showcase. I saw some outstanding display of craftsmanship - nice effects, nice highlights, plasma looked like it was realy all wafting, blades with a light red shimmer. And then my eye fell upon the death company. They here painted realy nice as well and i took an even closer look at them since my own chapter - the ImperialReapers - do have a mainly black armor as well. But then it struk me - somethink on this model - on all models was different.... [Question] So - I try to specify again what I saw on the models. Well my models I paint - I use a black primer, blood red for the shoulders and gold for the trim. Then I do some highlights using codex grey on the edges, boltgun metal for the weapons and done is my standard paladine. But compared to those pretty similar Death Company troopers I saw in the showcase mine look...i dont so somehow like a brand new rainbow. My models look so new and shiney like a mordern diesney movie. The colors from the showcase all did not look old - they still look pretty strong but they were not shiney. They looked matte (I hope thats the right word - leo showed up hell of a lot translations for this) and therefore somehow more plastic and armorlike. Same for the ultramarines I saw - ultramarine blue no doubt, but somehow also much more matte than when I use it on one of my models. Can any one explain to me how you can achieve this effect? And since I am already creating a topic - does anyone know a good way to remove jumppacks from models? I am planning to drill holes into them and pin them so i can switch between backpacks and jumppacks but I got my jumppacks already glued to them. I should have known I cant escape my calling and should not have tried to start my 40k carrer as a blood angel when my heart whispers "Black Templar". Thanks a lot Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stolid Fox Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Could it be the ones you looked at have a Matte Varnish? Something like Dullcote? -> http://www.thewarstore.com/TestorsDullcote.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostLegion Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 if youre talking about fading and aging effects and color fade, well ive done things like that by mixing pure white or black into the actual color im working. white chalks the color out, a nice fade...and black shadows it, nice dirt. It is also possible to do some of this with browns, but im not as comfortable there. Additionally, to get a nice faded look over a larger area you can try a very very thin wash of white...chalk wash if you will... I doubt this level of effort is what the store staff is doing, but it is one way i know. I have also had similar effects with very thin paints though...but not as controled or as nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialReaper Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 I found a picture which I think comes pretty close : http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/sleepybear/01-4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikel Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I couldn't say for sure but i would guess a matte varnish and or they simply basecoated with a matte black paint and then did not overcoat with chaos black. Even the chaos black spraypaint from gw is more matte than the chaos black in the pot. I prefer my marines to reflect light so bright it burns one's retinas like the sun, so it's not something I go for personally, I actually use gloss to make em brighter. For the white's it would be probaly some brown and or yellow washes and a creamy mix as opposed to a pure skull white that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostLegion Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 the faded effect on the white shoulders can be done as I described, through highly watered washes of brown...though the new(er) citadel washes may achieve the effect as well. I typically stay to using regular paint or inks for washes like this. The black is thinned to my eye, possibly 1 or 2 layers over a black primer job, with standard gray edge highlighting...though i have done similar flattening jobs with a black coat, light codex gray drybrush (and i mean very dry), then edge highlighting of codex gray, and a final wash layer of black over top. it is of course possible that the white here is up from brown..not gray as most people work. that could also explain the flattening/different appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialReaper Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 Ok for further illustration: This is mainly how my models look (even if they are not mine) just normal as the colors would look: http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh19/Mordheimer/Chaplain%20and%20Death%20Company/DeathCompanySquadA-03.jpg And then this is how it looks matte: http://web.me.com/darkeyestudios/Jay/BA_Death_Company_2_files/DeathCompanyB02.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironblood Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 It would seem to me that what you want is just some simple gradiant highlighting really there are a TON of tutorials on the internet that show how to do various stypes of highlighting black. prepare to take 5 times as long to paint your minis if you want to go from hardly any or hard edge highlights to smooth gradiant highlights. It's not really harder, just requires a good bit more patience imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialReaper Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 It would seem to me that what you want is just some simple gradiant highlighting really there are a TON of tutorials on the internet that show how to do various stypes of highlighting black. prepare to take 5 times as long to paint your minis if you want to go from hardly any or hard edge highlights to smooth gradiant highlights. It's not really harder, just requires a good bit more patience imo. No its not about the highlights - of cause the first pictures does not have some und the second one has some pretty good ones. But if you look at the black parts themselves they look not so deep in color - somehow more matt. Like the first one came fresh from the factory and the second ones were used in combat for several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GumbaFish Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I really think you are confusing the use of matte when trying to explain what you mean. I think I know what you are getting it but it has more to do with color selection and the way models are highlighted than the absolute glossiness of their surface. I'll elaborate and you can tell me if I am wrong. Here is an old wip shot of a chaplain I was working on, is this similar to the look you are after? http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/gumbafish/random/Chaplain_wip.png The thing is I didn't paint him black, I started with a very dark grey and shaded and highlighted to make it appear black. The trick to black isn't painting it black ironically. I think if you start from straight black you will end up with the results you already have and it sounds like you arent happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialReaper Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I am not shure if this is what I saw - but you model defenitely looks pretty good. The thing is - on the models I saw every color looked kind of more matte or less glossy than on my models - not just the black parts and therefore everything looked more realistic. I but dont assume that they just used a different set of colors or used layering for even the tinyest stripes and details on the model. I realy should have taken a picture to illustrate. But you are of cause right on your model too! You achieved the same more realistic and plastic effect my starting with a dark grey and shading. So let me ask you - the realy black parts of you armor - did you just shade them with chaos black or did you use something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 gradient highlights applied nicely are a really pleasing finish. Your best bet is to apply really thin layers of black mixed with steadily more codex grey added but applied with barely any noticeable transfer of colour - you want the brush to be barely "damp" with the paint not overloaded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GumbaFish Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think I wrote down what I did somewhere but dont have it handy. If I recall I started shading with some diluted badaab black then probably worked my way to diluted chaos black, then a slightly less diluted chaos black, and I think in the final recesses like the area on the toes I lined it with black ink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urb Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think there's a bit of both painting technique and matt finish involved here. The "black" effect is more of a dark grey highlighted to white and shaded to black. There are many models with the "tron" effect where every edge is highlighted to the lightest colour where realism requires you leave some parts dark. Once painted a matt coat will take out the influence of the external light source bouncing all over the model and show the desired effect. One more key. The entire model must be painted taking into account the light source. A "weak spot" will draw your eyes attention away from the other areas of the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialReaper Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 I just called the GW-Store the other day. They told me that all modesl have a normal black foundation, overpainted with chaos black again - normal highlights but then sealed with the GW matte vanish. This should have done the trick :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Nah its not just "normal" highlights, these have been blended in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributis Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Yes but he's not talking about these, he's talking about what he saw at the store :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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