Codex: Chaos Legions

[Gree]

Angron led 50,000 Berserkers in the middle of the 38th millenium.

Bezerkers though. Not all of them would be original World Eaters?

That indeed would be rather unlikely, as even the legions were not so huge. Well, some of them were very big, but I don't think even the biggest numbered more than, say, 30,000 marines at any one time. Chances are these were World Eaters warbands mixed in with renegade berserkers and other followers of Khorne.

 

The Ultramarines numbered 250,000. The average Legion size is 100,0000 according to A D-B.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Angron led 50,000 Berserkers in the middle of the 38th millenium.

Bezerkers though. Not all of them would be original World Eaters?

That indeed would be rather unlikely, as even the legions were not so huge. Well, some of them were very big, but I don't think even the biggest numbered more than, say, 30,000 marines at any one time. Chances are these were World Eaters warbands mixed in with renegade berserkers and other followers of Khorne.

 

The Ultramarines numbered 250,000. The average Legion size is 100,0000 according to A D-B.

 

I thought you said in another thread that he retconned the 100k and stated the WB's were second at 100k and that everyone else was sub 100k?

[Sven Dragonfire]

In case you can't tell, it's just sinking in with me that I will be abandoning my Red Corsair project. Ugh

 

Hey Prot, dont let "Rumours" get you down... wait and see. I remember all the rumours surrounding the future release of the Space wolf codex, and it realy got my goat, I was spitting feathers. But when the codex came out I quickly found most of the rumours I had read turned out to be a croc of Grox poop, and I was a happy little Space wolf.

 

The great thing about Chaos is it is so varied, any of the previous Chaos codexs can be used to represent almost any kind of Legion, Warband, flock , schoal what ever you choose to call your group of genetically enhanced , twisted to varying degrees, power armoured supermen! I admit the last Chaos Codex was thrown about the room a little upon first reading it, but I soon learnt to work with it. i appreciate ther are always going to be limitations, and rules you cant get your head around - Its always a bummer when your Lord runs away with your Terminators cos they had enough of being hurt. But wait and see what GW actually does.

 

Though I for one am with Freaky Fryer..... Yes GW are a business and they are there to make them some hard cash and the shareholders some tasty dividends, but the Hobby seems to get stale , and now and again you see some new races--- The Tau, and their associates, Kroot etc, but the fluff is so rich in races, aliens, history, campaigns, and we never get to this.... its like bam, another set of rules, This is Codex Ultramarines mkXII, which is slightly differant from the last, maybe embelishes a slightly differant aspect and most certainly has a new unit or two to go spend some dough on!!! GW, expand the hobby, you will still make money. We dont get detailed codexs of our favourite fluff because GW cant fit it all in between rules edition releases. Imagine if ADB co wrote a Nightlords codex somewhere down the line! woah. But that cant happen because GW have to redo all the existing codexs before the next set of rules comes out. I want a Hudd migrationry force for christmas! Never gonna happen.

 

Yes some people hate the existing codex of their favourite army - I used to play Dark Angels but the last couple of codexs have been so unimaginative ( for ME) that they havnt seen the light of day for several years. I dont expect their next one to be any better. But You wont please all of the people all of the time. Thats life!

 

I shant be buying the new rules and I wont buy any new codexs - I have my beloved Space wolf codex and a set of rules that works if you apply some common sense and all the people you game with are capable of doing the same, and I am fortunate that the guys at the club I play with are a good ole bunch of fellas, apart from the one thats not allowed sharp objects. ooops bit ranty now . Soz bout that.

 

I have to call it a day eventually - Rogue Trader rip

[Black Hand]

Angron led 50,000 Berserkers in the middle of the 38th millenium.

Bezerkers though. Not all of them would be original World Eaters?

That indeed would be rather unlikely, as even the legions were not so huge. Well, some of them were very big, but I don't think even the biggest numbered more than, say, 30,000 marines at any one time. Chances are these were World Eaters warbands mixed in with renegade berserkers and other followers of Khorne.

 

The Ultramarines numbered 250,000. The average Legion size is 100,0000 according to A D-B.

 

I thought you said in another thread that he retconned the 100k and stated the WB's were second at 100k and that everyone else was sub 100k?

 

I was gonna say - when did the legions become 100k+ marines? I must have not read the fluff as diligently as I thought. I always assumed they numbered in the tens of thousands.

[Legatus]

They did. From 2nd to 5th Edition. (With the odd exception.) It explains the number of Second Founding Chapters. It was stated in several Codices.

 

But then they changed it. The "Collected Visions" artbook was the first that directly stated that Legions had 100,000 Marines on average, AFAIK. That number was then adopted by several of the Horus Heresy novels, and is now the official number. At least for the Horus Heresy novels. The Codex Space Wolves still described ten thousand strong Legions. Some players had opted to dismiss the Black Library books as non-canonical, but A D-B has explained that they are considered just as canonical as any other publication.

[A D-B]

Angron led 50,000 Berserkers in the middle of the 38th millenium.

Bezerkers though. Not all of them would be original World Eaters?

That indeed would be rather unlikely, as even the legions were not so huge. Well, some of them were very big, but I don't think even the biggest numbered more than, say, 30,000 marines at any one time. Chances are these were World Eaters warbands mixed in with renegade berserkers and other followers of Khorne.

 

The Ultramarines numbered 250,000. The average Legion size is 100,0000 according to A D-B.

 

I thought you said in another thread that he retconned the 100k and stated the WB's were second at 100k and that everyone else was sub 100k?

 

That was a misunderstanding - I think something got lost in translation a while back. Average Legion size was 100,000, for really reals.

 

The Word Bearers had 100,000 fifty years before the outbreak of the Heresy though, yep.

[Gree]

Angron led 50,000 Berserkers in the middle of the 38th millenium.

Bezerkers though. Not all of them would be original World Eaters?

That indeed would be rather unlikely, as even the legions were not so huge. Well, some of them were very big, but I don't think even the biggest numbered more than, say, 30,000 marines at any one time. Chances are these were World Eaters warbands mixed in with renegade berserkers and other followers of Khorne.

 

The Ultramarines numbered 250,000. The average Legion size is 100,0000 according to A D-B.

 

I thought you said in another thread that he retconned the 100k and stated the WB's were second at 100k and that everyone else was sub 100k?

 

Then A D-B corrected me and put it at 100,000 as average. Did you read the rest of that thread?

[Verrix]

Not sure if this has been posted, but a reliable rumor-monger on Warseer (ghost21) has made the following statement:

 

expect extensive cult lists but not books, same with other legions

 

This was in response to the idea of mono-god books further down the line. One can reasonably assume that each God will have a respective list in the Chaos Legions Codex. Not really ground-breaking news but a decent confirmation at the least.

[Rik Riorik]

Still sounds like it is loads of time off if we need to get both 'crons, Tau, WD Sisters and the new edition out before it happens. A year down the line or more. That is a resonably long wait yet so not getting any panties in a twist.

 

Overall if the rumours are true it sounds golden. A focus on the warp is welcomed and a starter set with Chaos and Dark Angels for me sounds like the ultimate schizz. And if the Chaos codex just allows for a more intricate list building process and the assorted variety it'll be downright orgasmic. At least in comparison to what is now.

 

But too far off for now.

[Brother Ambroz]

It's far off but if it's true I for one am willing to wait.

[Cigar_of_Nurgle]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cigar_of_Nurgle]

well I acquired some more new info from bols and it is a word mountain. Im getting ready to hear the rant about the rule abandon. I myself don't quite understand it

 

Quote:

persuaded my source to give me more (some would say: everything there is ), the following is copy and pasted from hour long icq sessions, so there might be some missing bits, but most of the time, nothing has changed. we all know what unit coherency is, these are not actual rule texts but answers for my questions about the rules

I tried to arrange all fragments in proper order and corrected grammar, but most kudos go to my friend for being helpful while being annoyed of GW

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As I am done with GW forever. I love the miniatures, I like the new rules (been pretty enthusiastic about it), but I hate the company, that makes them. If you knew what I know you would feel the same. GW doesn’t care for their customers one bit. The whole corporal culture is cynical as hell. The managers despise the hobby and all immatures who play it. There is a huge rift in the management and most of the executives that actually play the game have left or are leaving the company right now.

 

Layout

Pretty crisp and clean

on odd pages there is the normal rule text with examples, on even pages there are the usual diagrams and charts, and small boxes with definitions

Lots of rules that were formerly explained within the text, are now only summarized in the text, the full rules are given in these boxes, you can read the rules text very fast without much detail, there are some boxes that have a name of a rule, but are empty otherwise. I guess that there should be page references to later pages, for example in the terrain rules, there is Torrent of Fire mentioned, the rule is explained much later (in a box), there is an empty box in the terrain section that reads Torrent of Fire however

So you have both: clear rules veterans and easy reading for first-timers

But it seems that there is not much space left for pictures, though

 

Fundamentals:

characteristic tests as normal,

if unit must make test, it is made by squad leader

vehicles fail every test automatically if they don’t have the value

test on ld is made with single D6 on halved value, vehicles pass these tests automatically

Majority characteristic: characteristic-value with most wounds in unit, if draw, use the higher

 

Keep track on:

wounds

movement distance

morale condition

everything else can be forgotten between actions

 

Saves:

4 kind of changes: armour save, cover save, invulnerable save, Feel no Pain

no model can ever make more than two saves or one re-rollable save

normal models can only make one roll or one re-rollable roll

Situation where two rolls are eligible:

- one of the saves is FnP

- model is character

- model is bracing

 

Feel no Pain (1-3): save on 5+,4+,3+, only negated by AP 1, 2 and wounds that don’t allow armour saves, the only save that every model and not only ICs may take in addition to another save

 

Actions

The rules make really clear what an unit can do and what not. There is an own chapter for the basic concepts. Every special rule has only to state: can do x, y, z and it is perfectly clear that the unit can still a, b and c

Actions:

- movement: movement in movement phase, sometimes only special types of movement are allowed: advance, surge, flat out, fleet; charge and disembark have to be rules out explicitly

- consolidate moves: every other move, has to be mentioned explicitly

- psychic powers

- shooting

- Reactions

- residual actions: any other action, for example popping smoke

unit is immobile: abbreviation for cannot move, react, make consolidation moves

 

Reactions

models can react every time the conditions are met

 

- Going to Ground:

who: non-vehicles, non-monstrous creatures

when: unit is being shot at, before rolls are made

instant effect: -

lasting effect: Suppressed, if not already Suppressed

 

- Brace:

who: tanks, walkers, monstrous creatures

when: being shot at, before rolls are made

instant effect: one weapon destroyed ignored, two saves for MC like IC

lasting effect: Suppressed, if not already Suppressed

 

- Flying High:

who: jet pack infantry, jump infantry, jetbikes

when: being shot at

instant effect: count as being flyer for shooting, opposing player can make 6” consolidation move with the unit

lasting effect: Suppressed, if not already Suppressed

 

- Evade:

who: skimmer, fast non-tanks, jetbikes, bikes, jet pack infantry, jump infantry

when: unit is being rammed or tank shocked and nearly fails morale check

instant effect: on 3+ can make 6” consolidation move, ignores ram if out of the way

lasting effect: -

 

- Return Fire:

who: (disembarked) units with Overwatch

when: unit is shot at the first time in the phase

instant effect: unit can fire rapid fire and assault weapons with a single shot at attacking unit, range 12”, resolved simultaneously, opposing unit is fearless (2) and stubborn for this purpose

lasting effect: -

 

- Charge by chance:

who: non-vehicles, walkers

when: Trapped, tank shock

instant effect: charge by chance

lasting effect: -

 

Terrain:

there are two different things: to be in cover, to be in terrain

every piece of terrain has a footprint, if an unit is this area or touches it, it is in terrain, being in terrain is important for movement and assaults

to decide if a model is in cover, you use true line of sight, cover is usually used for shooting, though some weapons use terrain

 

terrain is open, impassable, or has any number of the following attributes:

- difficult terrain: unit can only advance through it, if a single model moves through

- dangerous terrain:

units that move through dangerous terrain must make a test

non-vehicles make dangerous terrain test for every model that has actually moved through it at the end of the phase

vehicles must designate a point where they enter the terrain before the movement, than make the test, if vehicle is stunned, immobilized or destroyed, move it to designated point in a straight line

for every failed test, the unit gets a hit

non-vehicles: failed on 1: auto wound on unit, allocated together as Torrent of Fire

vehicles: roll depends on movement distance: advanced = failed on 1, surged = failed on 1-3, flat out = failed automatically, vehicle gets S8 hit against side armour

walker only ever fail on 1

non-vehicle units make only a single dangerous terrain test a turn, vehicles every time they enter a different dangerous terrain

- leveled: must spend movement for vertical advancement, non-walker vehicles and bikes can’t move vertical in leveled terrain

 

difficult and dangerous terrains are always ignored if the movement isn’t taking place in the own movement phase

 

Preparation and consolidation phase

These phases are collecting basin for all kinds of action that takes place before the movement or at the end of the turn. The player which turn it is may choose the order of these actions freely.

 

preparation phase: psychic powers, placing reserves, rallying, joining/ leaving, claiming mission markers

 

consolidation phase: rallying, consolidation moves, jet pack moves, joining/ leaving, embarking, killing multi-wounded units

 

consolidation move: moves outside the movement phase (jet pack movement, embarking, joining/leaving, falling back, moves after combat, tank shock evasion …) and moves that are described as consolidation moves are consolidation moves

cannot end in contact with enemy, ignores terrain even if performed in own movement phase, all units are relentless for this movement, can move even if fired heavy weapon, can fire heavy weapon afterwards, doesn’t affect unit speed for being shot at if not stated otherwise

 

Abandon: If there is more than one model with less than its initial wounds in an unit in the consolidation phase, the owning player must remove all but one as casualty ( ID(3) ). Independent characters are ignored.

 

movement phase:

Units can stay stationary or move in different speeds. They can advance and use their normal movement or they can surge and double their movement distance. Some units can go flat out or fleet and triple their movement.

 

Advance: normal movement: every action allowed

Surge: double movement: close combat, consolidate moves, psychic powers, reactions, residual action allowed

Flat out: movement: triple movement: only reactions allowed, use own columns on to hit chart

Fleet movement: triple movement, can charge, count as moving against shooting, cannot forced surge

 

If the unit goes through difficult terrain it can only advance. No unit can ever go flat out or fleet through terrain.

 

Forced surge: Units can surge through terrain if they are allowed to go flat out outside terrain this turn. Tanks cannot force surge (except during a ram).

If the unit fails an I-test, terrain is treated as dangerous terrain.

During a charge, every unit can try to surge through. If the I-test is failed, the unit still can only advance. units, that have passed their I-test for the fleet movement, automatically pass this I-test.

Can’t surge if there is another reason for the restriction to advance movement than terrain.

 

Unit types:

infantry: 6”

beasts/cavalry: 8”, fleet (1)

jump infantry: 8”, ignore terrain*

jet pack infantry: 6”, ignore terrain*, 6” move in consolidation phase

jetbikes: 10”, ignore terrain*, flat out

(eldar jetbike: jetbike with Fleet (2) )

bikes: 8”, flat out, cannot force surge

vehicles: 6”

fast vehicles: 6”, flat out

fast skimmer: 8”, flat out

walker: 6”, treat terrain like infantry

 

* as long as they don’t start or end in terrain

 

Fleet (1): infantry, beasts, monstrous creature, jump infantry, jet pack infantry: I-test, if successful, can perform fleet movement, can always advance during disembarkation;

bikes and jetbikes: I-test successful: can make 6” move in consolidation phase

Fleet (2)/Bounding Leap: as Fleet (1), no I-Test required

 

Random movement: roll a D6: 1-2 unit moves as infantry, 3-4 unit moves as jump infantry but cannot ignore terrain, 5-6 unit moves as beast

 

Charging:

no model may enter 1” of enemy models unless it charges,

the only difference between a charge and a normal movement is: models may enter 1” of enemy models.

all other movement restrictions apply, unit must stay in coherency, are subject to terrain

charging units can make a forced surge

an unit can charge more than one unit, but must stay in coherency, cannot move closer than 1” to enemy units that are not charged

The units in contact are now locked. If any model moved through terrain, the defending unit can claim to be in terrain in the assault phase, in the assault phase, both unit pile in before trading blows

 

Charge by chance:

sometimes units are forced to perform a charge in another phase than the movement phase, the charge by chance is a pile in move, as if the charging and defending unit were locked but have lost contact, the defending unit can make a pile in move afterwards (even if it is his phase, the defending player piles in last).

the combat is fought in the next assault phase and no side counts as attacker or being in terrain, no side can use grenades, no further pile in moves occur before the fighting

 

Movement distance is important for shooting, only the attempted movement in the movement phase counts (other movements do not count, consolidate moves don’t count, even a vehicle that has movement 1” can claim having moved flat out),

can be ‘overridden’ by three events outside movement phase:

fighting in close combat : stationary

become immobile: stationary

falling back: moving

 

Wounding:

To wound chart:

wound everything at least on 6+

 

Wound Allocation (cc and shooting):

hit as normal, wound against majority

 

mark dice that represent special weapons and attacks or roll separately

1. decide whether to use Torrent of Fire or not

2. target’s player allocate wounds to models, beginning with one chosen armour group, if every model in this group has a wound, start with another armour group and so on, if every model in the unit has a wound, start over

—> multiple wounds: count for allocation as as many models as wounds remain

3. pick an unresolved armour group, determine which wounds are directed

4. directed wounds: roll saves for directed wounds, shooting player removes casualties

5. roll all remaining saves of this armour group, owning player removes casualties

6. goto 3

 

Directed wounds:

there are directed wounds in close combat and long-range combat, casualties from directed wounds are removed by owning player of the attacking unit

Wounds cannot be directed if targeted unit has Shielded USR, Torrent of Fire is used, vehicle diverts its fire or non-vehicle, non-MC unit is in fire corridor

Number of directed wounds: After allocating wounds to an armour group, it is determined if the how many and which wounds are directed as following:

- every attack from an IC in close combat is a directed wound,

- of the remaining wounds, every second wound, beginning with the first, from a Sniper weapon is directed.

- Of the remaining wounds on-sniper wounds, every fifth wound is directed, owning player of the shooting unit decides which wounds are directed

 

Torrent of Fire/Blows: if torrent of fire is used, the targeted unit is a single armour group, the owning player can choose one model, the whole unit has the same combination of armour saves

During a Torrent of Fire, no wound is directed

 

Armour group: number of model that share the same combination of saves, for example: 3+ armour save, Feel no Pain (1), no invulnerable save, 6+ cover save that is re-rollable on 1

 

Shooting:

 

for determining if a particular model in the unit can shoot, check range and line of sight from this model

 

cover saves:

fire corridor is measured from squad leader, to the two outermost models in the target unit, if 50% or more models are invisible or partial invisible due to cover or vehicles or monstrous creatures, the unit is in cover,

non-vehicles/MC are invisible for determining cover saves, but if such an unit is in fire corridor, wounds cannot be directed

if unit is covered mostly by fortifications or models are completely invisible: 4+ save

if unit is covered mostly by vegetation: 6+ save

if unit is covered mostly by vehicles or anything else: 5+ save

 

To Hit chart:

it is the same chart as the wound chart, but with seven columns from 0 till 6

(evasion value in brackets, abbreviates for small chart)

 

rows:

buildings (0)

stationary vehicles, MC, bikes (1)

stationary infantry, jet pack infantry, jump infantry, beasts // moving vehicles, monstrous creatures (2)

short distance // moving infantry, jet pack infantry (3)

moving bikes, jump infantry, beasts // swarms // flat out vehicles (4)

flat out bikes (5)

flyers, beacons (some narrative missions use beacons) (6)

 

columns:

BS 1-10

 

every column is: …. 6+ 6+ 6+ 5+ 4+ 3+ 2+ 2+ 2+ …. but is shifted up or down

I give you the BS value for every column that hits on 3+: 1 // 2 // 3 // 4 // 5 // 6 // 7

 

if distance from squad leader to target is less than 12”, unit can always change column to short distance column

if a model moves like a different unit type, the initial unit type is still used for the chart

 

Assault weapon: bonus attack for second close combat weapon if unit has charged

 

Pistols: model can use it as additional close combat weapon or use its Strength in close combat but gains no bonus for another ccw, if pistol is AP 1,2 or 3, attacks are Rending (2)

 

Blast (Small) and Blast (Large):

scatter as before

don’t use line of sight for determining cover saves, if majority of unit is in terrain, models get cover saves

marker has infinite height, only in leveled terrain it is two-dimensional

multiple Barrage is used every time when there comes more than one blast marker of the same type from a single shooting unit

 

Template: if there is a range given in a template weapon’s profile you can place the small end anywhere in this distance

 

Sniper (1): always wounds on 3+, Pinning, every second wound from a Sniper weapon beginning with the first is a directed wound

Sniper (2): always wounds on 3+, Rending (1), Pinning, every second wound from a Sniper weapon beginning with the first is a directed wound

 

Pinning: must make a pinning morale check

 

Tracer: treat every target as stationary

 

Anti Air: treat targeted flyer as flat out vehicle

 

Rending (1-3): 6,5+,4+ on to wound roll wound automatically and are AP2 or count as power weapon, D3 extra armour penetration

 

Poison/Dissolving (X+): as before, for shooting and close combat

 

Lance (1-3): treat AV as 13,12,11, no modifiers on damage chart ever

 

Instant Death(1): caused by double strength and other effects, models without Eternal Warrior (1-3) loose all wounds

Instant Death(2): models without Eternal Warrior (2-3) loose all wounds

Instant Death(3): also called removed from play, models without Eternal Warrior (3) loose all wounds

 

Eternal Warrior(1-3): Immune to Instant Death of same or lower level

 

Assault Phase:

 

Engaged model: a model that is in base to base contact with enemy model is called engaged, a model that is in contact with friendly engaged model is also called engaged, so if you have a long queue of models that are all in base to base contact and the first is in contact with enemy, alls are engaged

 

Pile In Move: consolidation move, 6”, priorities:

- must move as man models as possible in base contact with locked enemy unit

- as many models as possible must end the move engaged with model of unit it is locked in close combat with,

- rest of the model must move as near as possible to engaged models

if it is not possible to bring a single model into contact, the distance is increased with 3” until one model is engaged

At the end of the pile in move, every struggling, still unengaged IC is placed in contact with engaged model of enemy’s choosing.

 

Pile in after charge:

charging units make Pile In move, than the defending unit makes a Pile in Move

 

Attacking

Every engaged model can attack. If it is engaged with more than one unit, it can decide freely.

WS majority is used

IC are unit of their own in close combat

 

Initiative order:

Always strike first/last: unit strikes before I1 or after I10, is not affected by I modifiers, if unit always strikes first and last, it strikes in normal I order

 

charging unit in terrain: strikes at I1

 

Power fist: strikes always last

 

Feint: models can attack in a lower initiative phase if they want

 

Grenades: unchanged

 

Resolving combat

unchanged, but no more -1 for under half strength

 

No retreat:

Fearless units (or units that stay in combat even if they fail their morale check) make normal morale checks after loosing a combat, if failed, can decide nonetheless to stay in close combat, but every model in base to base contact may make a single attack against unit, if a model is in base to base contact with several Fearless units that failed their test, it can make one attack against each unit

 

Sweeping Advance: normal, unmodified I of squad leader is used

 

Pile in after combat: all locked units make Pile In moves, order is chosen by the player who’s turn it is, units that are no longer locked and not falling back, make a 3” consolidation move, the unit counts as being stationary

 

Special rules

distinction between special rules and universal special rules

Some USR and other special or weapon rules have more than one level. If no level is given, the rule is treated as level 1. Only exception: Lance and Fearless are level 2 by default

USR are always conferred to or from joined IC, other special rules not

deployment rules and rules in codices are temporarily lost if not every model in the unit has it, if it is not explicitly stated otherwise

 

all USR:

Preferred Enemy: as before

Tank Hunter: as before, but it only works against tanks

Counter Attack: as before, negates Furious Charge

Veiled(1): if unit targets veiled unit, must roll 3D6 x 3” over distance or forfeit shooting

Veiled (2-3): 2D6” x 2

Acute Senses/Night Vision(1-3): reroll Veiled roll of equal or lower level

Furious Charge: as before

Hit & Run: as before

Overwatch: can react with returning fire

Move through cover (1): I-Test to ignore terrain

Move through cover (2): ignores terrain

Sworn Brothers/Mindless Slaves: if squad leader is killed, every other model in unit can assume leadership

Rage: must always at least advance and use full distance towards enemy (for example raged infantry must at least move 6”, if decide to surge, must move 12”), if shaken or embarked, ignores the rule

Shielded: as long as one model with this rule remains in target unit, wounds cannot be directed wounds

Slow and purposeful: Relentless; can only surge, if S-test is passed, if unit moves through terrain, it cannot force a surge, units with SaP and Fleet and/or Flat out have Relentless and Random movement instead, negates Preferred Enemy

Shock Troop: always rolls a single D6” under 18” in a deep strike, a hit is a hit

Skilled Rider/Driver/Ranger (1): reroll dangerous terrain tests

Skilled Rider/Driver/Ranger (2): ignore dangerous terrain tests

Stealth (1): +1 on cover save, must take Vanish reaction if unit takes a shooting reaction

Stealth (2-3): +1,+2 on cover save; 6+,5+ in the open, must take Vanish reaction if unit takes a shooting reaction

 

no USR:

Relentless: always count as stationary for firing weapons

Swarms: use the moving beasts (4) column in the chart regardless of movement or unit type, Blast and Template Weapons cause Instant Death (2) against swarms

 

Vehicles:

 

damage chart:

only negative modifiers: -2 glancing, -1 any hit except AP1 and AP – against tanks, -2 AP – against tanks (AP 1 flat +1 gone), -3 hit by blast marker but hole not over vehicle and vehicle is not open-topped (no more halved S for blast markers)

 

chart unchanged, but if vehicle blows up (6+ on chart), embarked troops and models in D6” get S3 AP – hit, if vehicle blows up embarked troops are Suppressed, if the vehicle is only wrecked they are fine

 

if a flat out moving vehicle is immobilised (4) or wrecked (5) it blows up (6+) instead and embarked units are Pinned instead of Suppressed.

 

close combat basically the same:

no close combat resolution against non-walkers, but units can decide to break off and make a 3” consolidation move

hit stationary vehicle automatically, advancing vehicle on 4+, at any other speed and skimmers on 6+

 

Shooting: stationary: fire all weapons, advance: fire one, surge: no weapon

fast as before: advance and fire all, surge and fire one

every weapon can target different unit, when doing so, cannot cause directed wounds, even with Sniper weapons

 

Transport:

Fire point: can fire if vehicle has advanced or surged, but only 12” regardless of weapon type, embarked troops are relentless

Embarking: 4” move in consolidation phase in contact towards access point, if squad leader reaches access point, unit is embarked. If not, no move is performed

Disembarking: 4” in movement phase from any access point or base in case of flyers, consolidation move, counts as having moved the same distance category as vehicle, i.e. stationary, advance, surge; no charge

cannot disembark if going flat out or if unit cannot move as fast as vehicle, i.e. cannot disembark at surge speed into cover, as you can only advance in cover

if vehicle was stationary, unit can move normally from access point instead of disembarkation move, can charge

fleeting units can advance from access point instead of making disembarkation move if vehicle advanced or surged

 

Trapped: if an enemy model is in base to base contact with access point of closed vehicle, access point cannot be used. If every access point is blocked, the unit cannot disembark. If the unit is forced to disembark because the vehicle is destroyed, the unit is placed on the wreck or in the crater. If the unit is forced to disembark for another reason it is destroyed. The units that were in base to base contact with the access points must make a charge by chance on the embarked unit immediately if it can react

Flyers in skimmer or flyer mode and open-topped vehicles are not subject to this rule. If embarked units have to disembark place them as near as possible to the vehicle (wreck) or base

 

Multiple embarked units: must use different access points, if Trapped, choose access points, respective unit must charge

 

Skimmer: no more cover save for flat out movement

 

Squadron: must target the same unit,

if consists of at least two vehicles, one is squadron commander

commander: as long as commanding vehicles exists, every immobile result in squadron on vehicle with weapons left is weapon destroyed instead

rest unchanged, old allocation rules

 

Lumbering: can only surge if roll of 4+ on D6, if moved not faster than advance: can fire every turret mounted weapons in addition to normally allowed weapons

 

open topped:

has no further effect than that units can disembark and fire everywhere, no charge advantage, no damage modifier

 

Tanks

cannot force a surge, even if they are flat out, but can ram

AP 1 and AP – only useful against tanks

 

Non-tanks:

only non-tanks can force surge through terrain outside of ram

fails I-test automatically, so gets a S8 on 4+

 

Ramming:

now every tank shock is a ram, a ram is a straight movement with max speed (flat out or surge), if tank cannot go faster than advance, cannot ram

tank can force surge through terrain, but still can’t go flat out through it

only one turn before the movement is possible

 

three things can happen: tank shock through unit, passing interfering terrain, ramming attack against vehicle or building or impassable terrain

 

no disembarking or shooting from embarked unit or vehicle is possible after ramming

 

terrain:

S8 against side on 4+ as normal

Skimmer can choose to fly over terrain or go through. If go over, no tank shock or ram on units in terrain.

 

Tank shock:

an unit under the vehicle’s path must make a morale check

if it fails, the unit evades headless and is falling back

If check is nearly failed, unit is rolled over

If check passed but not nearly failed, can decide if nothing happens nothing happens as tanks passes by or unit is rolled over

Rolled over: unit can attempt to stop vehicle (like death or glory)

shaken units can’t try to stop

if the tanks presses on, the unit gets D3 S5 hits with Rending (2)

 

Ram against vehicle/building:

both vehicles deal an automatic hit to the opposing vehicle

the hit is resolved against the side in contact

to calculate the S, take the AV in contact (if it is a tank, always take the front AV) and subtract a modifier

-6 if ramming vehicle has surged

-4 if ramming vehicle moved flat out

impassable terrain and buildings have AV 14 for this purpose and can’t be damaged

 

Ram against walker

walker can try to stop tank as if rolled over, if vehicle isn’t stopped, impact is resolved as ram, walker cannot charge by chance

 

if tank would end movement on unit:

may make a 6” special move in any direction but they must try to make place for the tank, if they would be still under the vehicle they may make another 3” move and another and another, until they are 1” away from the tank and in coherency, moves are treated like consolidation moves, but can performed in every situation even if unit is immobile or can’t perform any other action

the evading unit can perform a charge by chance on the vehicle, if it can react, afterwards

 

comes to halt, if it: touches vehicle, building, impassable terrain, 1” before an unit in close combat or is stunned, destroyed or immobilized, movement distance is reached

 

Artillery: vehicle, squadron, immobile, AV 10 /10 /10, BS as crew,

no commander

can place one crew counter per artillery, some can have additional crew members

can remove counter to ignore a single crew shaken or stunned result

can fight in cc like a walker, with WS, S, I as the crew, the number of attacks is the number of crew counters plus the number of artillery devices

enemy attacks are resolved solely against the artillery

 

Flyers:

- can decide every round in the preparation phase: count as fast skimmer or flyer, can decide upon arrival from reserves

 

flyer mode:

- If flyer is in reserve, it is placed in harry reserve every time, even if it can’t outflank

- Flyers from reserve are place in the the preparation phase on any table edge

- unlike other vehicles, flyers cannot turn as they like

- ignore all terrain, even impassable

- up to 18” movement, no surge, no flat out, one turn anywhere during the movement up to 90 degrees

- must move 12” in straight line in preparation phase, can turn up to 45 degree at the end of the movement,

- must move 12” in straight line in consolidation phase, can turn up to 45 degree at the end of the movement, if reaches table edge or can’t be placed at the end of the turn, flyer is put back in harry reserve, cannot change into skimmer mode

- Flyers can always fire every weapon at a single target, all weapons have AA rule

- no (dis-)embarking, except special drops if unit has Aerial Drop special rule

- if immobilized (4) or wrecked (5), place Blast (Large) marker in random direction in 3D6”, causes S5 (against side armour), place crater

- Embarked troops are destroyed if flyer in flyer mode is wrecked or destroyed. If immobilized, unit is placed in crater, get S5 hit each, Suppressed

- flyers have their own column in the to hit chart, Blast weapons don’t use their marker, use BS to hit, if marker targets another unit and touches flyer, hit is ignored

- barrage and ordnance weapons can fire direct, but must re-roll hits, even if twin-linked, weapons that hit automatically can’t hit flyers, that includes shooting, rift and shock wave psychic powers that hit automatically

- close combat: in contact with base, attacks hit on 6, any other unit than jump infantry, jetpack infantry and jetbikes must re-roll hits

- cannot be rammed, base is treated like unit in close combat

 

Aerial Drop: flyer with this special rule can disembak units even if in flyer mode, in any phase embarked jump infantry and jet pack infantry can be placed via deep strike on a point, the flyer has moved over in this phase

 

IC: can roll two saves at the same time,

All wounds from an IC in close combat are directed. count as separate unit in assault phase for dealing damage

joining: 3” move in preparation or consolidation phase, assumes automatically squad leadership

combat: if IC is part of an unit that is in close combat, but isn’t in base to base contact, it is moved into it by the shortest distance

 

Squad Leader:

You must nominate one model of every unit to be the squad leader, if the unit entry doesn’t make clear which model it is in the first place.

 

Banner/Icon/Trophy: if squad leader is killed, standard- or icon bearer automatically becomes new squad leader.

If one or more independent characters have joined the unit, one of them automatically becomes new squad leader. If the IC is killed, the normal leader takes over.

 

Squad leaders can take two saves, all wounds from squad leader in close combat are directed

only applies for initial squad leader.

 

If the unit must take a characteristic test, use the profile of the Squad leader.

used for all kinds of things

 

Every time when something is measured from the squad leader, or he has to make a test for the unit, but the unit has no leader anymore, the opposing player can choose one model for this purpose

 

psychic powers:

 

Psychic test: morale check to use power, if morale check is failed, no more powers this turn from this psyker

 

perils: unchanged

 

power levels: number of psychic powers per player’s turn

power types:

- shooting power: count as firing a weapon, line of sight, BS roll or scatter if blast, fire point needed

- rift power: count as firing a weapon, true line of sight, no BS roll or scatter, only disembarked, targets suffer described effect, wounds from rift powers cause ID (2)

- modifying power: preparation phase, no line of sight or BS roll, no fire point needed, distance from hull, can only target own models inside transport; if target splits during the turn, the psyker’s player can decide on which part the power remains

- aura: preparation phase, psyker and joined unit are effected, if psyker leaves unit, power stays only with psyker, no BS roll, no fire point needed, transport unaffected, sustained power

- shock wave: count as firing a weapon, no line of sight, no BS roll needed, radius from base edge, must be disembarked, units in transports are unaffected

 

block: psyker in normal condition in 24” of other psyker can attempt to block psychic power, on 5+ blocked, on 1 perils of warp attack (unchanged), if equipped with similar wargear, psyker can decide which to use, only one block attempt per power

 

passive powers: no need for psychic test, not subject to block, don’t work if unit ‘can’t perform any action’

resonating powers: can stack

sustained powers: if psyker is shaken or engaged in close combat, power is blocked

rampant power: if psyker uses a rampant power, cannot use another power this turn, even with power level 2 or more

 

force weapon: as before, ID(2)

witchblades: as before, besides: force weapon with ID(1)

 

Unit conditions:

Morale checks: roll with 2D6 against squad leaders Ld as normal, but result of a failed or passed roll varies from situation to situation i.e. psychic test, pinning test, casualties, and are given for every situation. there is no more: “make a normal morale check”

In some situations a morale check can not only be failed or passed, but also be nearly failed. Nearly failed is if rolled higher than halved LD (rounding up) but below or equal to Ld, modifiers are applied before halving, but there are no more modifiers outside close combat

 

five usual situations: lost close combat, heavy casualties, pinning, psychic test, rallying

checks due to other fleeing unit is gone

 

Heavy casualties: made in consolidation phase, 25% casualties or more in a shooting phase: if failed: fall back

 

Pinning:

if morale check fails, unit is Pinned, if nearly fails, unit is Suppressed

 

Lost close combat:

unchanged, difference in combat resolution as modifier

 

- Suppressed:

non-vehicle and non-MCs units cannot move flat out, fleet, force a surge, shoot, use psychic powers, react, if they fail a T-test, they cannot surge and charge

vehicles and MC: can still react and fire a single weapon, cannot ram, (vehicles fail their T-test automatically), vehicles can only voluntarily become suppressed, embarked units in a suppressed vehicle cannot shoot from within

infantry, beasts, unit with swarm get Stealth (1) or level of stealth one up up to 3

if charged: looses suppressed status immediately

if forced to make another morale check: morale check, if nearly failed or failed, unit is Pinned instead of Suppressed

- Pinned: cannot move, shoot, make consolidate moves, use psychic powers, react

infantry, beasts, unit with swarm get Stealth (1) or level of stealth one up up to 3

if charged: looses Pinned status immediately but cannot use defensive grenades and Counter Charge USR and gains no bonus from terrain

if forced to make another morale check: morale check, if nearly failed or failed, unit is Falling Back instead of being pinned

- Falling Back:

in moment of breaking unit immediately makes consolidation move towards own table edge with surge distance, count as having surged for purposes of shooting

can act in subsequent turn as normal, but must attempt to move and simultaneously end their movement not closer to any enemy unit. If they cannot move in the movement phase because of this they are removed from play. Therefore they cannot stay stationary voluntarily or charge an enemy.

They can perform consolidation moves, but cannot end nearer to any enemy unit. Unit cannot react.

if charged: if charging model reaches the unit, unit is destroyed and charge is unsuccessful

if forced to make another morale check: unit is destroyed, does not apply for rallying

if reaches voluntarily or during their initial move the table edge: are removed from play but don’t count as destroyed

- Shaken: abbreviation for Suppressed, Pinned, Falling Back

- Immobile: abbreviation for cannot move, cannot react, cannot make consolidation moves

 

Rallying: suppressed and pinned units automatically recover in the consolidation phase of their next player’s turn

A falling back unit with squad leader can make a morale check in the preparation phase if there is no enemy unit in 6”. If successful the unit can act normally. If failed, the unit is not destroyed. A falling back unit can embark into a vehicle an rallies immediately. The 3” movement can be towards enemies as long as it end inside the vehicle.

 

Fearless (1): if any morale check for rallying, casualties, tank shock or in close combat fails, the unit can decide to pass it anyway, Fearless units treat Pinned as Suppressed, treat Falling back as normal condition

Fearless (2): as Fearless (1) but can decide to pass Pinning tests, too

 

Stubborn: always use the unmodified Ld for morale tests in close combat, Stubborn and Fearless (1-2) units must always choose to pass a morale check

 

Misc:

swarm = model with swarm rule

there is no special rule for allocating wounds against units with multiple wounds

 

Mission rules:

3 old types of placement, only one type of mission

 

Sequence:

place terrain -> decide type of placement -> place mission markers -> decide first turn -> choose stratagems -> put units in reserve ->deploy remaining units -> deploy infiltrating units -> make scout moves

 

First turn:

roll-off, looser bids a number of strategy points, opponent can raise or bail out, both player can raise the stake until someone bails out. Winner can decide to go first or last

Player that goes first can decide table edge and has to deploy first

The looser can spent the strategy points on stratagems

 

Placing mission markers: 1 marker is placed as near as possible to the middle of the table, 4 markers are placed in turn, starting with the player that goes first. marker has to be more than 12” away from table edges and other markers

marker use a 60mm base and are impassable terrain, the center marker is flat and doesn’t block line of sight, the players can use every shape they want for the markers they place, as long as it doesn’t overlap the base significantly

 

Night Fighting: all units Veiled (1)

 

Scout: 12” move before the game after infiltrators are placed, outflank

 

Infiltrator: can be placed anywhere outside 18” of enemy models, count as veiled (2) as long as they make no voluntary action

 

Outflank: nominate side, on 3+ comes from there, on 1-2 from other side

 

Deep Strike: mishab table as before, place squad leader,

if in 6” of enemy: 3D6” scatter, use arrow on hit symbol, if in 12”: 2D6” hit is hit, in 18”: 1D6”, outside 18”: no scatter

may only advance on turn of arrival, even with fleet or flat out, count always as (advance) moving, charge allowed

 

Reserves: unit(s), their transport and joined IC count as one unit for all reserve related purposes, but the unit has to start inside the transport and IC has to be in the unit, units can use special deployment options of the vehicle but not vice versa,

1. nominate any number of outflanking units to harry, place them near the table, facing the enemy’s table edge

2. flank guard: nominate half (rounding down) of the remaining units to arrive in turn 2, place them near the table, facing the small table edge

3. rear guard: the rest arrives in turn 3, place them near the table, facing the own table edge

In the preparation phase

when you put an unit in reserve you have to decide upon a deployment method

 

In preparation phase:

flank guard: from turn 2 on: arrives on 2+

rear guard: arrives in turn 2 on 1, and from turn 3 on on 2+

harrying units arrive on 4+ from turn 2 on

all remaining reserves are arriving on turn 6

 

for every harrying unit that is in reserve in the enemy’s preparation phase, you can make the enemy reroll one reserve roll

 

units from reserves are placed in the preparation phase in base to base contact with table edge (if not deep striking), if there is not enough space, placed back in reserves

 

Victory Points

both armies can collect victory points throughout the game, there are two ways: claim a kill, claim a mission marker at the end of the game turn:

 

Claim Kill:

every destroyed tank (not vehicle), walker, monstrous creature or independent character is a kill. Every squad leader that is killed is a kill (not counting standards, etc.)

Every kills gives one victory point

 

Claim Marker:

You check in your own preparation phase if you hold or control a marker. Opponent checks in his preparation phase.

 

You control a marker, if there is one of your scoring units in 3” of the marker and no enemy scoring unit. If you control a marker you get 3 victory points.

You hold a marker, if you don’t control it, there is one of your non-scoring non-vehicle units in 3” and no enemy unit. If you hold a marker you get 2 victory points.

 

You start in the preparation phase of the second going player in the second game turn. The player that goes first checks a last time at the end of the game as there is no preparation phase in turn 7.

 

Vehicles and shaken units are completely ignored. Embarked units only count if transport is open-topped.

 

Game length:

6 turns

 

Stratagems:

 

1 can place automatic turret

immobile BS 3 10/10/10

is equipped with twin-linked weapon

can choose one weapon, that an infantry model from FOC Troop can be equipped with

 

1 the first or last game turn is night fighting

 

1 can re-roll one outflanking roll and one deep striking scatter roll per turn

 

1 can block every psychic power on 6+ even if no psyker in 24”, psykers block on 4+

 

1 steal the initiative: if going second, roll at the start of the game a D6, on 6 you go first

 

1 own units use Ld 10 for pinning morale checks

 

2 one unit for every full 1500 points can get one of the following USR: Tank Hunter, Shielded, Fearless (1), Preferred Enemy, Relentless

 

2 decide during deployment if rear or flank guard: roll a single reserve roll for all units in chosen guard

 

2 Mine Field: makes one piece of terrain for every full 750 points dangerous

 

2 units of both forces that are holding or controlling mission marker have Overwatch USR

 

3 can make one non-vehicle unit upon deployment scoring

 

3 enemy deep striking units must subtract 6” from distance to enemy to see how they scatter

 

2 all weapons of one unit for every full 750 points have the Anti Air and Tracer rule

 

4 you can switch units from rear guard to flank guard until you roll the first reserve roll,

every unit can decide upon arrival which deployment method it uses: deep strike, normal reserve or outflank,

one unit for every full 1500 points per turn can change its deployment method to one it cannot normally be deployed with

 

4 All own units count as having surged or moved flat out before the game.

 

4 all own units are equipped with offensive grenades

 

6 all enemy units count as being in terrain in their first turn

 

6 all own units count as Veiled (2) in turn one

 

6 enemy rear guard and flank guard units roll like harrying units for their arrival

 

12 Pitch black: Night fighting with Veil (2) during the whole game

 

12 own units: weapons fired in 6” range count as twin-linked

 

12 enemy must re-roll successful cover saves

 

every stratagem can only be taken one time,

for every unspent point, once per game one roll may be re-roll, this cannot be the steal the iniative roll

 

Narratives rules:

- optional rules: apocalyptic weapons, super heavy vehicles (not much changed, but rules for damaged super heavies for small games), formations

- new deployment types, mostly taken from mission expansion

- new victory conditions

- rules for games with predetermined strategy points for both players

- three sets of additional stratagems: fortifications, deployment options, reinforced buildings

- special terrain: ruins, streets, hell rivers, deathworld mangroves, warp gate, sand pit, orbital landing platform, habitat block

- highly modular: you can mix deployment rule, victory condition, optional rules, available stratagem sets, number of strategy points to spent and special terrain: voila, you have your own mission

__________________

[Rik Riorik]

Although I can only be bothered to skim such an extensive post for something that might not even be for real I like what I see. More intricate rules for sure which I am all for and I like the fact that it allows for different power levels on special rules meaning two units with the same kind of special rule can be differentiated between in how good they are at wht they do. Also really like the reserves bit with it being less random and thus might form a more predictable part lf the overall strategy.

[Son of Rawl]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As I am done with GW forever. I love the miniatures, I like the new rules (been pretty enthusiastic about it), but I hate the company, that makes them. If you knew what I know you would feel the same. GW doesn’t care for their customers one bit. The whole corporal culture is cynical as hell. The managers despise the hobby and all immatures who play it. There is a huge rift in the management and most of the executives that actually play the game have left or are leaving the company right now.

 

__________________

 

Im interested in that paragraph there more than the rules too be honest

[darth_giles]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As I am done with GW forever. I love the miniatures, I like the new rules (been pretty enthusiastic about it), but I hate the company, that makes them. If you knew what I know you would feel the same. GW doesn’t care for their customers one bit. The whole corporal culture is cynical as hell. The managers despise the hobby and all immatures who play it. There is a huge rift in the management and most of the executives that actually play the game have left or are leaving the company right now.

Sounds a little like TSR during the mid to late 2e D&D era, when their high-tier managers actually forbade playtesting because they considered it immature.

 

On the plus side, I hear enough whining from D&D players about how WotC's "miniatures" are so expensive and require so much more investment than a box of GW product, that even if the game lines die the miniatures will still have a fairly big market.

[the jeske]

nah . that is too simply said[even if it is partly true]. IMO the game right now is not my game. I hate the fluff , doesnt make sense to me at all . I dont like what they are doing w40k since the happy chaos family started . I dont like the fact that they have those "lets not make army/build X good , because the meq players that make up 60% of all players may not like it " , some armies have clearly undercosted options while others are "balanced". And that sucks on all levels be it tournament games or not . But I do understand that I am not 16 , maybe if I was I would like the draigos , the necron BA bro fists or MC being equal to primarchs in warfare genius and being a spiritual leader of 90% of all meq. Wouldnt be the first thing I dont get with younger people . The only real thing I want from the game is balance , but not in the way that all codex have equal power that will never happen even if one dude would write and test them . What I mean by balance is same direction for all dex. If an ed starts and we decide to cut all options we cut them for all dex we dont decide after 2 dex that it may not be the way to go . We dont make codex SW before codex nids . because when a counter list is there before the dex is out it not only makes some people sad[i understand that players happiness is not the goal of GW not with their 1 year player focus groups] , but it lowers the sales . Screw the community it is bad for GW and their buissness.

[Spacefrisian]

Gw doesnt care about there business, look at all the price increases they did in the recent years.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Gw doesnt care about there business, look at all the price increases they did in the recent years.

 

 

I don't know a business that does not care about their business. They may be bad at it, but they still care, or they would sell it off.

 

It could be...

 

1. They run an inefficient cost model and they are passing the buck

2. It could be the cost up in materials and they are passing the buck

3. It could be competition is lacking and they know folks will keep buying so they trickle the prices up to see if/when it breaks

 

Lots of reasons for prices to go up.

[Zincite]

Gw doesnt care about there business, look at all the price increases they did in the recent years.

3. It could be competition is lacking and they know folks will keep buying so they trickle the prices up to see if/when it breaks

I would say something, but you said it all in that sentence.

 

For about the forth time, I compare GW to the Pet store owner in Monty Python's Dead Parrot.

[darth_giles]

1. They run an inefficient cost model and they are passing the buck

2. It could be the cost up in materials and they are passing the buck

3. It could be competition is lacking and they know folks will keep buying so they trickle the prices up to see if/when it breaks

 

Lots of reasons for prices to go up.

You forgot that they've just invested in a new 3D printing technology and bulk resin casting equipment, so they have to raise prices to pay for it. Industrial equipment doesn't exactly grow on trees. And as I remember, prices went up during the transition from lead to pewter, while quality temporarily went down.

[Penmarch']

1. They run an inefficient cost model and they are passing the buck

2. It could be the cost up in materials and they are passing the buck

3. It could be competition is lacking and they know folks will keep buying so they trickle the prices up to see if/when it breaks

 

Lots of reasons for prices to go up.

You forgot that they've just invested in a new 3D printing technology and bulk resin casting equipment, so they have to raise prices to pay for it. Industrial equipment doesn't exactly grow on trees. And as I remember, prices went up during the transition from lead to pewter, while quality temporarily went down.

 

Have you seen those new resin models? Even a VERY experienced modeler couldn't make anything decent from some that I saw.

BTW one of their main UK distributors simply send the whole order back. 55% fail.

[the jeske]

You forgot that they've just invested in a new 3D printing technology and bulk resin casting equipment, so they have to raise prices to pay for it. Industrial equipment doesn't exactly grow on trees. And as I remember, prices went up during the transition from lead to pewter, while quality temporarily went down.

well they said that resin had much better details . it doesnt . It is not cheaper and while the change to white metal brought some bad models it was never that bad . It is practicly impossible to get a whole box of models[as a unit] without some of them being damged. They should have waited with it or at least done more test runs.

[Spacefrisian]

1. They run an inefficient cost model and they are passing the buck

2. It could be the cost up in materials and they are passing the buck

3. It could be competition is lacking and they know folks will keep buying so they trickle the prices up to see if/when it breaks

 

Lots of reasons for prices to go up.

You forgot that they've just invested in a new 3D printing technology and bulk resin casting equipment, so they have to raise prices to pay for it. Industrial equipment doesn't exactly grow on trees. And as I remember, prices went up during the transition from lead to pewter, while quality temporarily went down.

 

 

You might think they have some connections with Forgeworld. But i think FW and GW arent connected anymore so GW has to reinvent the wheel completely.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Angron led 50,000 Berserkers in the middle of the 38th millenium.

Bezerkers though. Not all of them would be original World Eaters?

That indeed would be rather unlikely, as even the legions were not so huge. Well, some of them were very big, but I don't think even the biggest numbered more than, say, 30,000 marines at any one time. Chances are these were World Eaters warbands mixed in with renegade berserkers and other followers of Khorne.

 

The Ultramarines numbered 250,000. The average Legion size is 100,0000 according to A D-B.

 

I thought you said in another thread that he retconned the 100k and stated the WB's were second at 100k and that everyone else was sub 100k?

 

Then A D-B corrected me and put it at 100,000 as average. Did you read the rest of that thread?

 

No, that was the rest of the thread when I read it and didn't return.

 

1. They run an inefficient cost model and they are passing the buck

2. It could be the cost up in materials and they are passing the buck

3. It could be competition is lacking and they know folks will keep buying so they trickle the prices up to see if/when it breaks

 

Lots of reasons for prices to go up.

You forgot that they've just invested in a new 3D printing technology and bulk resin casting equipment, so they have to raise prices to pay for it. Industrial equipment doesn't exactly grow on trees. And as I remember, prices went up during the transition from lead to pewter, while quality temporarily went down.

Agreed.

[minigun762]

That was a misunderstanding - I think something got lost in translation a while back. Average Legion size was 100,000, for really reals.

 

The Word Bearers had 100,000 fifty years before the outbreak of the Heresy though, yep.

 

I'm glad they officially changed that. The whole "each legion is only 10 chapters in size" made everything feel too small. This would put the number of active marines during the great crusade at around 1.8million or so, which is pretty dang impressive.