The 13th Goat Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Being one of the most enigmatic, unusual and arguably interesting, will we be hearing any more of them? So here is what we know: Their are two Primarch figures; Alpharius and Omegon They were discovered by Horus space borne and with no noted homeworld. Was contacted by alien species after they noted the Legions acceptance of the flawed nature of humanity. Seemed to accept alien revelations and left with a year to organize their legion. Appeared to side with Horus, although voiced no compliance. Arguably saved Corax and the remaining Raven Guard on Istvaan V by disabling a Worldeater Star Ship. I think there is great scope for future releases, but do you think GW and Mr Abnett will keep the mystery alive and stop the books? And will we ever get an accurate portrale of them in a 40k setting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 We also know that they prevented the Space Wolves to reach Terra in time to fight in the siege, and slowed down the Ultramarines on their way to Terra. We also know that they have been a thorn in the side of the Imperium for the past 10,000 years, and that they spread and support Chaos cults on countless worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 ADB mentioned elsewhere on the site that Alpharius is one of four Primarchs to be focused upon in the Primarch-based HH novel (consisting of four novellas) coming out at some point. He mentioned Chris Wraight as the author (I think, damn it can't remember which thread it was in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Rob Sanders is writing the next HH Alpha Legion novel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Seemed to accept alien revelations and left with a year to organize their legion. Arguably saved Corax and the remaining Raven Guard on Istvaan V by disabling a Worldeater Star Ship. Of these two items, the first is up for major debate, as is the second like you pointed out. The First Heretic reveals information before the dropsite massacres on Istvaan, that point firmly to the fact that the Traitor Primarchs understand what drove the Alpha Legion to leave the Emperor's side. The reach, influence, and increasing familiarity of unchecked xenos within the domain of man is an abomination to everything they believe in. No side was taken after the revelations in Legion, and it is not mentioned again till TFH, which points to it being a reason against their "loyalty" to the Emperor, rather, they used this in order to serve their own goals, while fighting for Horus who will place them in the best position to achieve them. As to the second point, again, it can go both ways. Saying they "saved" them is an assumption. There would be a solid line of reasoning, be it for or against, whether it was for noble intention, to serve themselves, or to serve Horus (and in turn themselves). They specialize in the "Long Run", and Horus knows this better than anyone, so the likelihood of him ensuring that it is the Alpha Legion who oversee that plans go according to plan, is fairly high. Horus must be in control. Who better to employ the one Legion who specializes in control and manipulation to handle this part of his war against his father? As for the no homeworld bit, depending on if you want to trust the vision in The First Heretic, the twins crash land inside of a Ship/Hulk/Station in space, ala the piratical mobile fleet you read about in the Index Astartes article that attack Horus' ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 The First Heretic reveals information before the dropsite massacres on Istvaan, that point firmly to the fact that the Traitor Primarchs understand what drove the Alpha Legion to leave the Emperor's side. The reach, influence, and increasing familiarity of unchecked xenos within the domain of man is an abomination to everything they believe in. No side was taken after the revelations in Legion, and it is not mentioned again till TFH, which points to it being a reason against their "loyalty" to the Emperor, rather, they used this in order to serve their own goals, while fighting for Horus who will place them in the best position to achieve them. Really? I was under the assumption that was mearly Logar's take on it. After all, Logar and the others had (or at least never shown) knowledge of the meeting with the Cabal. For me, the fact the Legion left the Cabal alive is some indications of their leanings. I didn't really feel that any point towards the Alpha Legion's standing was mentioned in First Heretic, where did you think it came up again? As to the second point, again, it can go both ways. Saying they "saved" them is an assumption. There would be a solid line of reasoning, be it for or against, whether it was for noble intention, to serve themselves, or to serve Horus (and in turn themselves). They specialize in the "Long Run", and Horus knows this better than anyone, so the likelihood of him ensuring that it is the Alpha Legion who oversee that plans go according to plan, is fairly high. Horus must be in control. Who better to employ the one Legion who specializes in control and manipulation to handle this part of his war against his father? This point is fair enough, but one would have to be given a reason for the action to take it fully into account. Horus and Corax historically didn't get on, and he was an enemy Primarch. Surely Horus would have wanted the Imperium's Guerilla specialist eliminated before he made his move towards Terra. One could say that killing a brother stalled him, but I doubt at this point Horus would have held back. As for the no homeworld bit, depending on if you want to trust the vision in The First Heretic, the twins crash land inside of a Ship/Hulk/Station in space, ala the piratical mobile fleet you read about in the Index Astartes article that attack Horus' ship. I don't remember that vision? How did I miss that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Wasnt the vision just of darkness? I thought that was because the AL homeworld being unknown adds to their mystery but what you said makes much more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Rob Sanders is writing the next HH Alpha Legion novel Has he written anything about the space marines thus far? To my knowledge he's only written books on the imperial guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Arguably saved Corax and the remaining Raven Guard on Istvaan V by disabling a Worldeater Star Ship. As to the second point, again, it can go both ways. Saying they "saved" them is an assumption. There would be a solid line of reasoning, be it for or against, whether it was for noble intention, to serve themselves, or to serve Horus (and in turn themselves). They specialize in the "Long Run", and Horus knows this better than anyone, so the likelihood of him ensuring that it is the Alpha Legion who oversee that plans go according to plan, is fairly high. Horus must be in control. Who better to employ the one Legion who specializes in control and manipulation to handle this part of his war against his father? This bit has really turned what i thought i knew about these two legions on its head. On a scale of 1-20 The raven Guard are my #1, most favorite Legion. And the Alpha Legion was my #20 Most hated. Out of all the Legions who "fell" to chaos, the Alpha Legion seemed to have the weakest reason. It REALLY bugged me how they still said "FOR THE EMPEROR!" I hated that they were given credit for the planning of the Ambush on Isstvan V. I hated that the Alpha Legion was able to operate outside the Eye or Terror. I HATED that they were so good at misinformation that most likely everything we knew about them was a Lie. NOW THIS!?!!!? Now it seems likely that my most favorite Legion owes a good deal of what they have to the Legion who i most despised? :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Rob Sanders is writing the next HH Alpha Legion novel Has he written anything about the space marines thus far? To my knowledge he's only written books on the imperial guard. The short stories Iron Within & The Long Day at Carcharias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Rob Sanders is writing the next HH Alpha Legion novel Has he written anything about the space marines thus far? To my knowledge he's only written books on the imperial guard. The short stories Iron Within & The Long Day at Carcharias Well Iron Within was by far the best thing in Age of Darkness. This might be REAL good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja6fett Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Iron Within was the surprise delight of Age of Darkness for me, so yay for any more stuff from him. On topic: Just when I thought the agenda of the Alpha Legion couldn't get more confusing they do that stuff with the RG and their retreat from Istvaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Its why the Alphas have been my favorite Chaos Legion from the start. They're the thinking man's Chaos Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Alpharius rejected the Emperors ideal of utopia as impossible, preferring instead to maintain the flaws of man. It's clear in my mind what I think happened - that Alpharius sided with Horus after believing the Cabals notion of complete destruction if Horus won, so that he could subtly interfere to ensure mankinds continued existence. Alpharius is pro mankind rather than pro Emperor or pro Imperium, and believes that mankind surviving is it's greatest achievement. The Alpha Legion couldn't have sided with the Emperor so explicitly, because if the Heresy failed miserably then the Great Crusade would have continued, the utopian ideal perpetuated and other human colonies would have eventually rebelled as peoples are want to do when under tyrannical rule, meaning that the legions would have been relegated to peace keepers and executioners once the utopian ideal had been realised. So, Alpharius sides with Horus, who is also probably his only friend amongst the Primarchs, helped mastermind the drop site massacre, helped Corax survive, delayed the space wolves, allowed the White Scars to reach Terra and probably innumerable other subtle events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Alpharius is pro mankind rather than pro Emperor or pro Imperium, and believes that mankind surviving is it's greatest achievement. The Alpha Legion just so happens to feel that humanity has a better chance surviving if they pledge themselves to the dark gods, instead of following the Emperor's ideals. That is not all that different from Horus' or the Word Bearers' point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I really dont believe that brother.Seen their actions thus far,what has been mentioned before(pro humanity)makes more sense to me.Plus how can mankind survive in service of chaos?Chaos wants to destroy mankind completely and it will eventually(according to the cabal).The only question is wether will it take the rest of the galaxy with it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well, one thing that can be said for certain about the Alpha Legion (because it is repeated in almost every description of them) is that they spread and support chaos cults throughout the Imperium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Well, one thing that can be said for certain about the Alpha Legion (because it is repeated in almost every description of them) is that they spread and support chaos cults throughout the Imperium. Apart from Legion, every description of them is from an Imperial POV. I don't deny that it is probably the case that some Alpha Legion Warbands (oh yeah, I went there) in the 10000 years since the Heresy have turned to chaos and cultivate chaos cults, but I don't believe that was ever their intention. Even the Alpha Legion in the Siege of Vraks books are called the Faithless. Brother Immolator: (I don't know how to multi quote) I really dont believe that brother.Seen their actions thus far,what has been mentioned before(pro humanity)makes more sense to me.Plus how can mankind survive in service of chaos?Chaos wants to destroy mankind completely and it will eventually(according to the cabal).The only question is wether will it take the rest of the galaxy with it or not. The Cabal didn't say that Chaos wants to destroy mankind, they said that if Horus wins then mankind will be destroyed thus destroying the threat of chaos. Thats what the Cabal wanted. Mankind fuels chaos, chaos got what it wanted by Horus losing, just like the Alpha Legion. I suppose the Alpha Legion are chaotic (small c) rather than Chaotic (big c) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiberium40k Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I`m hoping Rob Sanders`s take of the Alpha Legion will finally tone down their supposed omnimpotence. Though judging by "The long games at Carcharias", he will probably continue it. On the other hand, the fact he wrote Iron Within ( ^_^ ) gives me hope it will be a good novel, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Would have been very happy with Chris Wraight writing the next Alpha Legion story. His story in AoD was great and I'm halfway through reading Battle of the Fang and it's fantastic. He's joining Abnett, ADB and most of McNeil's stuff on my mental top shelf of BL authors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Plus how can mankind survive in service of chaos? The wonderful thing about grey, is that it appears either light or dark to the beholder. They fight for themselves above all else, they do terrible things to humanity and its deffenders if they need to, and they aid them when it will suit them. They never needed the Cabal to have this mentality, and for the one Legion who loathed manipulation above all other things, I highly doubt they listened to the Cabal at all, and chose the third option of doing whatever they wanted to achieve their own goals. Your right to say that mankind cannot survive in the service of chaos, but they also believe that it cannot survive by itself peacfully, thus without the ever burning candle of eternal war mankind will fall. There can be no winner in that, and so they fight and spill blood just as readily on the side of chaos, as they do steeling the dying Imperium against it. The influence of chaos however is something that must factor into this belief, so even if their intentions were this way at the end of the Heresy, they certainly would be rotten to the core with corruption (Much in the way the Blood Angels in Soul Hunter smell the stench on Talos, even though for all intents and purposes, he is self serving, not deity serving. He doesn't see himself that way, but it doesn't hide the fact that he is.) in the current timeline, even with the majority of the Legion not fleeing the eye. Not even the Emperor could cheat the pantheon of Gods their due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I sometimes think that the Alpha legion, or at least its’ high command had a plan. They were playing the long game. However, due to the AL’s excessive compartmentalising some sections didn’t get the memo and fell to chaos. I don’t see Alpharius and Omegon just taking the words of some filthy xenos and turning on their own kind. They had seen the dangers of chaos, both in the destruction of a world and what they had been shown and as the most pragmatic Primarchs knew it had to be stopped. However they are always playing the angles, maybe they sided with Horus to let him win, then they would hide away a fraction of humanity to save and nurture. Maybe they planned to betray him in the end allowing the Emperor to destroy his wayward son as a stark warning to the Imperium not to turn from their Lord. The Lost and the pruged have no history, they are no warning to the Imperium as a whole. However the Emperor’s favoured son and several others being cast down, amongst the rubble of a galaxy in flames is a warning no one can hide. The Emperor’s utopian ideal was impossible to achieve, but it was something that the mortal men and women of the Inmperium could strive for. As for the modern AL, who knows if they have fallen. All the chapters from the loyalist legions have had members fall, so it is not unreasonable to think that some AL have gone native. As for the rest, they have had to change their plans. They can’t show the Imperium the errors of chaos in a big way, so they show it in a small way. They set up cults on hundreds of worlds. These cults are hunted down and killed. Instilling fear in the local populace and a resurgence in belief in the Emperor. Are these cults really Chaos, or have they been told that they are chaos and believe so, worshipping sham gods, but still suffering the wrath of the Imperium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Adam Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Would have been very happy with Chris Wraight writing the next Alpha Legion story. His story in AoD was great and I'm halfway through reading Battle of the Fang and it's fantastic. He's joining Abnett, ADB and most of McNeil's stuff on my mental top shelf of BL authors. same, i picked up battle of the fang and am half way through aswell. the only problem is i dont have enough time to really sit and get into it for about 2 weeks, all i want to do is sit in a comfy chair, drink tea and read it. its way better than the fall of damnos, which in my opinion was mediocre. the story is well written, but i just cant get myself to care about the ultramarines, the characters suck. almost made me back away from BL novels outside the horus heresy series altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I felt the Cabal were being manipilated by chaos and the Alpha legion through them. We shall see I do perfer the alpha legion as grey unknown force or a force secretly working for humanity tricking the other dumber blinder legions of chaos into stupid actions. Maybe be these cults already exist all the Alpha legion do is bringing them to the attention of the imperials Questions are the Alpha legion still controlled by the cabal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Rob Sanders is writing the next HH Alpha Legion novel Has he written anything about the space marines thus far? To my knowledge he's only written books on the imperial guard. The short stories Iron Within & The Long Day at Carcharias He has also written Atlas Infernal, which is not focused on Space Marines but has them. Also shows the mystery/intrigue angle which would be very good with respect to an Alpha Legion novel. Chris ADB Sanders Dan Ab I'm very happy with any of these authors doing anything HH. The candy store is filling up. The First Heretic reveals information before the dropsite massacres on Istvaan, that point firmly to the fact that the Traitor Primarchs understand what drove the Alpha Legion to leave the Emperor's side. The reach, influence, and increasing familiarity of unchecked xenos within the domain of man is an abomination to everything they believe in. No side was taken after the revelations in Legion, and it is not mentioned again till TFH, which points to it being a reason against their "loyalty" to the Emperor, rather, they used this in order to serve their own goals, while fighting for Horus who will place them in the best position to achieve them. I totally missed this in that novel. What is the page reference please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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