OMordha Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Sanguinius didn't have dark desires ? Where the hell did red thirst and obsession with blood come from then ? Everybody knows Sanguinius had a dual character. One side was noble and exemplary the other was bloodthirsty and violent. The red thirst and the black rage didn't exist until after sanguinious death. It sprouted in response to the tramatic death of the primarch. Its not a taint of chaos but more an extream case of post tramatic stress disorder for lack of a better description Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2817466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 You are right with the black rage but red thirst and blood obsession were always present. Sanguinius tempered the edge with his presence but with his death, the flaws erupted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2817547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 According to Collected Visions, the first recorded case of the black rage happened during the ambush in the Signis Cluster, when sanguinius was koed by Ka'banda (or some such). the BA were so enraged by this they purged the entire cluster of all daemonic taint. ALL OF IT. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2817868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 It was rumored to be the start, but it wasn't really the Black Rage. It was an undeveloped form of it, and it went away when he regained consciousness. Also, Sanguinius never had an obsession with blood like that. He wasn't blood thirsty, and even that flaw is said to have come after his death IIRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2817900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 According to Collected Visions, the first recorded case of the black rage happened during the ambush in the Signis Cluster, when sanguinius was koed by Ka'banda (or some such). the BA were so enraged by this they purged the entire cluster of all daemonic taint. ALL OF IT. WLK I don't think that was black rage. Symptoms don't fit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2818296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 According to Collected Visions, the first recorded case of the black rage happened during the ambush in the Signis Cluster, when sanguinius was koed by Ka'banda (or some such). the BA were so enraged by this they purged the entire cluster of all daemonic taint. ALL OF IT. WLK I don't think that was black rage. Symptoms don't fit. page 340 of Collected Visions An army of ordinary men faced with such events would have surely been swiftly defeated. However, Space Marines are by no means normal menand the Blood Angels did not falter. Rather, they redoubled their efforts to banish the daemon horde. Filled with vengeful fruy, the Legion foght as it never had before. The Blood Angels went berserk and in their mania they smashed the daemons asunder.The Blood Angels Legion had all but annihilated the daemonic horde of Signis Prime. In a berserk fury, unmindful of any personal injury, the Space Marines had swept across the planet destroyingany daemon, mutant or cultist they could find. The brutal violence of Ka'bandha has unleashed something dark within the psyche of the Space Marines, a thirst for blood that would not be slaked until every taint of Chaos had been erased from the planet. The Blood Angels were unstoppable, the hordes of Chaos could not resist them and they crumbled before them. The Blood Angels freed Signis from its thrall- but they had little stomach for celebrating. The cost of the victory was far higher than any could have wished. Hundreds upon hundreds of Blood Angels had been killed in the fighting, their Primarch lay broken upon the ground and the berserk rage they had experienced had left a brooding shadow on their souls. Sounds exactly like the Black Rage to me. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2818315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Just because you went berserk does not mean you got inflincted with BR.You can't turn off Black Rage unlike what happened in Signus Prime. They killed daemons and they reverted back to their former selves. Nope, not Black Rage. Besides BR is about losing your identity and getting trapped in fugue state where you are Sanguinius getting tortured by Horus. This is nothing like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2818321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Just because you went berserk does not mean you got inflincted with BR.You can't turn off Black Rage unlike what happened in Signus Prime. They killed daemons and they reverted back to their former selves. Nope, not Black Rage. Besides BR is about losing your identity and getting trapped in fugue state where you are Sanguinius getting tortured by Horus. This is nothing like it. bwahaha, if you say so man. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2818325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 bwahaha, if you say so man. WLK Bwahahaha, what ? Are you imitating Russ' laughter or should i be just offended with this cryptic laugh apropos of nothing ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2818328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Like I said in an earlier post, it wsn't the Black Rage, but it was a precurser to it. It was more like the first signs of the Red Thirst than it was the BR. Like Billurye said, the BR is a memory. They forget who they are, and think they are Sanguinius in the events that both led up to the final showdown, and consisted of the final showdown. Thats what the Black Rage is. The Beserk Rage is more of the Red Thirst at the extreme. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2818684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 bwahaha, if you say so man. WLK Bwahahaha, what ? Are you imitating Russ' laughter or should i be just offended with this cryptic laugh apropos of nothing ? I am laughing in amusement/disbelief. the Black Rage is the memory of SAnguinius fighting on Horus's battlebarge, yes. I believe the rage shown at the Signis Cluster to be the Black Rage before the Black Rage was given a name. hopefully we'll get a better answer when the BA HH book comes out. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2819062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I would say that it is the Black Rage that over comes the Blood Angels on Signus Prime. The memory/vision of Sanguinius and his death is most likely a catalyst for it in modern 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2819064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think its more of the Red Thirst than the Black Rage. Their primarch, already known to have a righteous fury, was struck down, and his backlash put the Red Thirst into them, causing them to go crazy. The Red Thirst, when at an extreme, has the potential to be as bad if not worse than the Rage, only without the memory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2819214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Found this while re-reading Collected Visions, page 368: Suddnely, without warning, each and every Space Marine of the Blood Angel Legion were struck with a searing vision - a nightmare scenario in which they were Sanguinius, and Horus, the arch-traitor, was throttling them to death with his bare hands. As they experienced the least moments of death they knew the vision to be truth. A deep rage grew within their breats, the darkness that grew within their souls on Signis revisited them and they went berserk. Casting aside all thoughts of danger and duty they hurled themselves at the horde beyond the walls. Utterly consumed by the anger they smashed into the sourrounding forces, killing and killing again. Awash with blodd, the Angels of Sanguinius vented their fury on the Warmaster's army. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2821488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Found this while re-reading Collected Visions, page 368: Suddnely, without warning, each and every Space Marine of the Blood Angel Legion were struck with a searing vision - a nightmare scenario in which they were Sanguinius, and Horus, the arch-traitor, was throttling them to death with his bare hands. As they experienced the least moments of death they knew the vision to be truth. A deep rage grew within their breats, the darkness that grew within their souls on Signis revisited them and they went berserk. Casting aside all thoughts of danger and duty they hurled themselves at the horde beyond the walls. Utterly consumed by the anger they smashed into the sourrounding forces, killing and killing again. Awash with blodd, the Angels of Sanguinius vented their fury on the Warmaster's army. WLK And you have found the cure :devil: We just need to revive sanguinius, and kill the warmasters army. ;) However, this helps solidify another point. Sanguinius himself did not have the flaw, and that it is, and always was, a result of his death (and in the past, a result of his future death) :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2821805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Found this while re-reading Collected Visions, page 368: Suddnely, without warning, each and every Space Marine of the Blood Angel Legion were struck with a searing vision - a nightmare scenario in which they were Sanguinius, and Horus, the arch-traitor, was throttling them to death with his bare hands. As they experienced the least moments of death they knew the vision to be truth. A deep rage grew within their breats, the darkness that grew within their souls on Signis revisited them and they went berserk. Casting aside all thoughts of danger and duty they hurled themselves at the horde beyond the walls. Utterly consumed by the anger they smashed into the sourrounding forces, killing and killing again. Awash with blodd, the Angels of Sanguinius vented their fury on the Warmaster's army. WLK And you have found the cure :cuss We just need to revive sanguinius, and kill the warmasters army. :cuss However, this helps solidify another point. Sanguinius himself did not have the flaw, and that it is, and always was, a result of his death (and in the past, a result of his future death) :P well, as i see it, any gene-curse carried by the Blood Angels Legion must have been carried by their source of gene-seed. I kinda like the image of a pissed off, gore covered angel that is both terrible and beautiful. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2822370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander S. Caesare Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Wait, Sanguinius would never be Warmaster. It totally messes up the prophecy. Plus, think of the whole name 'monicker' thing. Horus is god of war and life in Egyptian history. Erebus was the dark being in the beginning of the Greek universe. Sanguinius, what? His is just Latin of blood. :cuss I mean, c'mon guys, really? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2822388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 *Puts hands up* I'm a blood angels fan! this may contain bias! With that out the way, anyone else think sanguinius might have precoged the Chaos plan with his foresight and avoided it? He may be incorruptible, as has been suggested (my favourite option, but just my opinion!) or he may not, however if Chaos had gone after him, well, Sanguinius falling is a possibility isn't it? (Sorry!) However, IMO, I think he would have stood a better chance than any of the other primarchs at resisting! *Runs for cover and hides behind large rock!* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2823177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sazabi24 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Well, though chances are Sanguinius wouldn't fall for the tricks that Chaos used against Horus, they could've done other things to sanguinius. Tzeench could've corrupted Sanguinius's visions, Khorne could've tried to activate the red thirst in the blood angels, or they could even have corrupted BA gene seed to make them appear to be mutants to the Admech. The possibilities are endless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2823237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ah the joys of people that think Sanguinius is corruption free because he looks an Angel.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2823257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Just reading back, got to say that I think the rage that took hold of the BAs was not the RT or BR, but a precursor to these. The anger and loss of control was temporary, like losing your temper, but after Sanguinius' death once you lost it, it was pshyco killing time, with no return. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2823340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 According to fluff as far as i am aware the black rage came on due Sanguinius getting his arse handed to him by a daemon years before the Battle for Terra. The Blood Angels fell into a terrible rage to try and recover him before he was killed by the daemon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2823352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 anyone else think sanguinius might have precoged the Chaos plan with his foresight and avoided it? He may be incorruptible, as has been suggested (my favourite option, but just my opinion!) or he may not, however if Chaos had gone after him, well, Sanguinius falling is a possibility isn't it? I find that doubtful considering the primarch with the greatest psychic ability couldn't avoid the heresy, as much as he tried. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2823376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 anyone else think sanguinius might have precoged the Chaos plan with his foresight and avoided it? He may be incorruptible, as has been suggested (my favourite option, but just my opinion!) or he may not, however if Chaos had gone after him, well, Sanguinius falling is a possibility isn't it? I find that doubtful considering the primarch with the greatest psychic ability couldn't avoid the heresy, as much as he tried. That same primarch thought he could master the warp... maybe a psychically active primarch who didnt have delusions of grandeur might have had a better chance. or not. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2823394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge The Weak Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Chaos would of still turned the word bearers, who would of turned horus etc in exactly the same manner. Tit for tat, him being warmaster just speeded it up! Was going to happen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233034-sanguinius-as-warmaster/page/7/#findComment-2824401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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