Codicier Lucion Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Although I see sense in this and ganging up on opponents is a sound strategy, there's a little voice in the back of my head insisting that attacking eight heavily defended locations one after another is not such a great idea, strategically. For one you'd be telegraphing your punches by the time you attack planet number three and, for two, eight tough nuts that need cracking will only be kind on your (ground) forces if you exterminatus each world. Your naval forces would be another matter entirely, however. It'd be much easier and far quicker to go for the jugular, which Horus did (it did take seven years, mind you). Agreed, could you imagine the nightmare the traitor legions would have had trying to attack Fenris or Nocturne? Not to mention that Ultramar was one massive fortress system which, as the Word Bearers' superweapon plan failed, could have been used as another power base against them. Then of course you've got the constant hit and run attacks to worry about. Having gone unobserved and undisturbed the White Scars and Ravengard would have wrecked havoc amongst supply lines and battle fleets. And I doubt the Alpha Legion would have been entirely quiet as the traitors attempted to take down legion recruitment worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 how did the traitors lose!? By turning traitor they lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Horus was up against the clock on two fronts, 1. The return of the Wolves, Dark Angels, and Ultras And my theory, 2. His favor among the Chaos Gods was not unlimited. The Chaos Gods were never bound in service to Horus. The illusion is presented that he would be the next Big E, but really he was only ever an instrument, a tool, delivered to them by Erebus. Not even their first choice if we are to believe what is presented in Prospero Burns. So we have Horus facing the impending return of loyalist Legions, his forces are not exacly focused on the task at hand, and things have have sort of stalled on him. The Gods at some point have got to start wondering if picking numero 2 was such a great plan and Horus has to be wondering if he is fitting the expectations of said Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Why is the emphasis on numbers in a lot of the posts I read? Numbers are great, but numbers do not win battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 soon as the ultras arrived...it would of been game over for the traitors...numbers and skill...;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubermensch Commander Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Why is the emphasis on numbers in a lot of the posts I read? Numbers are great, but numbers do not win battles. Tell that to the Germans (particularly the tank crews) of WWII. XD Numbers can win battles, campaigns, wars. While not the sole means of securing victory, it can certainly get the job done, especially if, as in the case of the Heresy, the forces hold parity in terms of skill and equipment. So that is why the emphasis on numbers. With such similarities between the traitor and loyalist forces, numbers start to come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 In other situations numbers may not always make a difference but with the Ultramarines having more Space Marines then 2-4 legions, their involvement would make one hell of a difference! Remember these are Astartes not run of the mill guard, any additional legions or marines would be a benefit on morale and on the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 exactly! if the ultras had been on terra it would of been numerically silly for horus to attack (doesnt a besieger need a 3-1 superiority of numbers to even consider assaulting defended positions?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxjace Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 good thread though eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 good thread though eh? It's a humdinger. But you have to admit this was an easy subject to discuss and debate, really, eh? :D Also, has anyone pointed out the Emperor's Children weren't involved with the siege of the Emperor's palace, yet? The were on Terra, sure enough, but they preferred to 'toy' with the general population. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxjace Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 yah we mentioned it haha. they are the reason terrans hate SM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 If i was the Warmaster, i'd do roughly what he did, except instead of attacking terra immediately after Istvaan i would: -Delay the Space Wolves & DA -Feign an attack towards Terra to keep the IF,WS & BA stuck -Crush the Ultras at Calth -Continue Delaying the DA while i besiege the Space Wolves -Only then will I attack the Terra. Horus wasn't himself at the time, his usual tactical genius was not present since Istvaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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