Lord Munkrunky Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I have noticed in the more recent novels particularly post Mechanicum when i think some version of the Golden throne/astronomican was actually being constructed that everyone says "for throne's sake" "throne have mercy" etc in a "for christ's sake" sort of way. how is this possible as the concept of the throne i.e. one that is holding the cadaver of the God emperor is not yet in use so as to be revered to the extent that it enters into the general lexicon as a term of Holy exclamation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Styphus Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 The throne existed, but it was used as a literal throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Munkrunky Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 That simple? it wasn't that significant before it took up its ultimate role though was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 The Golden Throne was meant to be a psychic amplifier type thingamajig for Magnus to use as well. It was never really intended to have the Emperor's corpse permanently ensconced upon it. It was modified to be a life support machine for Him later. Whether the average person of the Imperium knew of it's actual function the rumour/myth of it existed and it was seen as an icon of the Emperor and his rule. Therefore it was something worthy enough to be sworn against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 "Throne" is an exclamation outside of just the 40k universe... Swearing to a throne is the same as swearing to the lord to which it belongs. It is the lords seat of power and, typically speaking, can be a mightier symbol of a kingdom's rulers than its current occupant himself, because a throne tended to outlast its occupant and even his successors. Hell, thrones could outlast whole family lines and dynasties. Swearing "Throne!" is the same sort of concept as swearing "Heavens!", except on a mortal sort of level.... Well, when the king or emperor in question is a regular human it's on a mortal level. For The Emperor Of Mankind it pretty much outright serves as both "Throne!" and "Heavens!" Does that kinda answer your question better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I'll give you a real life similarity in Canada. Tabernac is one of the worst curse words you can use in French Canada or Quebec. French Canadians have a strong tradition of Roman Catholicism and this sacriligious word takes the word "tabernacle" in vain, tabernacle meaning the box the the Holy Eucharist is kept in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzdougs Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I also noticed that one of the rememberances in an early HH novel (might have been Fulgrim or Horus Rising) said his mouth was "as dry as a Tallarn's sandle". Tallarn was a verdant paradise world until it was devastated by the IW durring the greatest tank battle of the heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Munkrunky Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 indeed! so do we think there is just some sort of 40k author's infiltrating of 30k fiction habituality of prose situation going on? i cannot see why the "throne" would be called upon as a term of blasphemy or whatever if it had not yet rose to be an object of any specific prominence. you might as well say "oh my mk4 corvus pattern" or "holy land raider" as it would be more relevant. i also think maybe the pressure on the BL authors (eg deadlines etc) is so much that they don't edit with fine tooth combs. Where is Ben Counter these days? Did Battle Of The Abyss get him thrown (ha ha ha!) out of the airlock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I also noticed that one of the rememberances in an early HH novel (might have been Fulgrim or Horus Rising) said his mouth was "as dry as a Tallarn's sandle". Tallarn was a verdant paradise world until it was devastated by the IW durring the greatest tank battle of the heresy. Well, THAT is just an anachronism, unless Tallarn was always famous for its dry sandal production... indeed! so do we think there is just some sort of 40k author's infiltrating of 30k fiction habituality of prose situation going on? i cannot see why the "throne" would be called upon as a term of blasphemy or whatever if it had not yet rose to be an object of any specific prominence. you might as well say "oh my mk4 corvus pattern" or "holy land raider" as it would be more relevant. i also think maybe the pressure on the BL authors (eg deadlines etc) is so much that they don't edit with fine tooth combs. Where is Ben Counter these days? Did Battle Of The Abyss get him thrown (ha ha ha!) out of the airlock? There's already plenty of significance to the Throne - it is the seat of The Emperor's power. It could easily be a carryover archaic phrase from as far back as whenever the custom was originally coined. It could basically be interchangeable with "The Emperor" even before he was permanently attached to it. It's the same sort of idea as referring to "Car 24" or the "DuPont Car" to refer to Jeff Gordon (I really hate myself for using a NASCAR reference....) during a race. It's like a form of synecdoche, except using an object as a stand-in for what it represents, rather than an actual part of the object (I'm pretty sure there's a term for that....but I dunno what it is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Anthropomorphism, maybe? To further elucidate our OP I'd like to point out how swearing has changed over the past few centuries: These days swear words are typically more sexual than they used to be (the ones considered the worst in the English language are certainly sexual) whereas back toward, say, the 1600's (give or take) curse words, up to and including those considered the worst, were distinctly more religious in context, some of which we've held onto (I'll forgo examples for the sake of common decency). This is primarily, as I'm led to believe, because of the social climate these words inhabit - the 1600's were far more sexually repressed than today is and were, conversely, far more religious. The social norms were different back then. As to how pre-golden throne exclamations of 'thrones sake' and such exist? I'd go with TEC on this one. ;) Edit: Typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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