Lord Munkrunky Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 in my opiinion thE resurrection of Loken however i think it might have been even better in print, but maybe the event wasn't a novels worth of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvak Kyre Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 In The First Heretic when The Emperor teleports in and just commands the word bearers to kneel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 No OP, that was the most recent example of dire writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Munkrunky Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 i'm not saying it was well realised as it wasn't especially as it was through the medium of audio drama but surely it was an undeniable mark-out moment to have our primary hero return in whatever format? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Call me morbid, but Istvaan III. Especially the final moments. Real tragic heroism in the face of certain doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 My favourite moment is Loken punching out Lucius. "Let's sword fight!" "No" "Let's sword fight." "I said no." "Too late!" *Loken punches out Lucius* "I said no sword fighting!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Frankly, it's the tragic moment when Argel Tal is with the Iron Warriors about to gun down the Raven Guard. Argel Tal very lightly just says "I'm sorry" then gives the order to kill them. The First Heretic is so brilliantly written because it shows you that the Traitor Legions didn't inherently hate the Loyalists, and even then they didn't hate the Emperor. You have to read it and completely forget everything you know about the Heresy to really get what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 In The First Heretic when The Emperor teleports in and just commands the word bearers to kneel! Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtonis Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 in my opiinion thE resurrection of Loken however i think it might have been even better in print, but maybe the event wasn't a novels worth of story. Â you started a topic stating "in print" and your example wasn't even "in print" Â The First Heretic has quite a number of awesome moments. Â the beat down Corax gave Lorag and Cruze's arrival to save him. Â Sythran's killing of Xaphen and his last words, "I've always hated you, Xaphen" Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 i'm not saying it was well realised as it wasn't especially as it was through the medium of audio drama but surely it was an undeniable mark-out moment to have our primary hero return in whatever format? Â You do know that the hero only returns in bad fiction right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Munkrunky Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 I Know that. but go with it ! Loken was/is soooo cool that if you can't see why his return is a good thing then you miss the continuity and portentous excitement of the series. which needs a central bona fide hero to emphatically and empathetically hold it together. i am willing to wager a poll would democratically reveal that his return is more popular than not. Press red now. Â And yes i am very sorry for my mistake in that an Audio drama is not exactly 'in print' as such, by saying in print i should have said published or released by Games Workshop into the public realm of consumerability, i meant rather than the entire timeline which, i am sure will be universally agreed, is being retconned a bit as we go. eg Bjorn the fell handed, Space wolves not being the boozy berzerker vikings you think, Guilliman not being as faultless as you think (possibly), Dark angels not being complete Liberal democrats etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I Know that. but go with it ! Loken was/is soooo cool that if you can't see why his return is a good thing then you miss the continuity and portentous excitement of the series. which needs a central bona fide hero to emphatically and empathetically hold it together. But that's the thing about the Heresy; it doesn't. It's a series of desperate, horrific and heart breaking wars across a Galaxy that was once united, and the sad thing is that 99% of great heroes and mighty warriors will die. It's important that these characters die, so that you can see the humanity in the Legions and the scale of the betrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdfest10 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Sorry, have I missed something? Loken alive? Â I've read all the current HH novels, but I'm yet to hear the audio dramas. Can someone fill me in? Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Sorry, have I missed something? Loken alive? I've read all the current HH novels, but I'm yet to hear the audio dramas. Can someone fill me in? Please?  Yeah, I haven't gotten around to 'em either. I think its in one of the Garro audio dramas.   Frankly, the idea pisses me off. Yes, I liked Loken. He was a good guy, and proof that not all Space Marines are giant d-bags. As meaningless as his death was in the overall course of the Heresy, it still had meaning. To us, the readers. It provoked an emotional response (heroes dying usually do). Bringing him back from the grave is pure stupidity in my mind, which makes it only the second thing I haven't liked about the Heresy series so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The whole revival of Loken as a character was very short sighted imho. It basically robs the emotion and the significance of his death, once you find out, and you cannot revisit the moment of his supposed demise with the same feelings it's meant to evoke. Yes, it's nice to still have such a character around but the price the reader/listener pays for his continued existence isn't worth it, I reckon. Had Garro found someone else on Isstvan III I believe the series would be richer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 i am willing to wager a poll would democratically reveal that his return is more popular than not. Press red now. Â Well let me disagree with you here. Take it from me, some one who has argued that Loken would live. Someone who continues to say that his survival is a cool thing. Most here, who post, think Loken return is anything but a good thing. I feel a good portion have not even gotten the chance to hear Garro: Legion of One, but that dose not stop them from feeling it was "short sighted","pure stupidity". I think people should re read the books, with the knowledge that Loken will live. In that light many things have more meaning then if you did not know the future. That is one of the main reasons i think the Fight between Loken and Lucius is the best moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The fact that I haven't listened to Legion of One and thus are not aware of the exact circumstances regarding his survival is irrelevant. Loken died for his cause, arguably the highest ranking and most respected Space Marine casualty of the Istvaan fights barring Ferrus Manus. The moment of his "death" -- perhaps "loss" would be a better term -- was one of the most poignant moments in the entirety of the Horus Heresy line. Here's an Astartes, betrayed by his own sworn, blood-brothers, going up against a power weapon-wielding maniac in Terminator while wearing power armor wielding a simple chainsword. Like I said before, his death had meaning to the audience. It resonated with us. His resurrection doesn't empower that moment; it cheapens it. Â If you've read A Game of Thrones, then compare this situation to the execution of Eddard Stark. Here's the hero of the entire first book, then BAM! Off with his head. Now imagine that, two books later, its revealed that it wasn't actually him that was beheaded, but a body double, and he's really been in the dungeons of King's Landing for a year. Kind of skews the entire emotional tailspin of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I would have preferred it if Torgaddon was found alive. Â He'd have been angry, of course, and more than a little crazy, but Garro would have understood; after all that stress, how could a guy be expected not to lose his head? Â ... Â *crickets* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I always get past the retconning and plot devices by stepping back and saying "These are cheap paperbacks that are in no way meant to be substantial works of fiction." And besides, over five editions and twenty-five odd years, there's bound to be some plot inconsistencies and whatnot. Just roll on past them, and remember that the real outrage is that Terminators are twelve dollars a piece. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=232714 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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