Death Company Analysis - Are you scared?

[knife&fork]

I don't understand why people neglect the infernus pistol. That melta shot is more important to have than a power weapon, imho.

 

The main problem is that you need to be within 3" of a vehicle to get the full effect. I tend to rely on other elements of the army to pop transports and let the DC do what they do best.

 

The pistol isn't there because DC is a dedicated tank hunting unit, it's there because it's only relatively cheap and adds a lot of utility to the squad. In most builds the infernus pistol is a far better use of points than a power weapon.

[Drunken Angel]

I think that most people will overlook the infernus pistol in the DC. My DC are equipped with jump packs I think they can make that 3 inch range most of the time. After the initial charge I like the idea of them having close range melta and a chance of being able to open things before the charge, 15 points and one melta shot against losing 4 PW attacks ? we will see I guess.

 

Snorri who produced this guide had this to say

One of my favourites [infernus pistol]. In the DC, it allows you to melt tanks into slag and assault the insides, which is always nice!

The Plasmapistol is superior to the Infernus Pistol in my opinion, as you will face some lightly armoured tanks(speeders or those Dark Eldar thingies) quite often, trying to keep your DC from battle. In those situations, the improved range comes in quite handy, as you probably won’t be in melta range anyways.

Oh, and the pp is cheaper.

[knife&fork]

I think that most people will overlook the infernus pistol in the DC. My DC are equipped with jump packs I think they can make that 3 inch range most of the time. After the initial charge I like the idea of them having close range melta and a chance of being able to open things before the charge, 15 points and one melta shot against losing 4 PW attacks ? we will see I guess.

 

Snorri who produced this guide had this to say

One of my favourites [infernus pistol]. In the DC, it allows you to melt tanks into slag and assault the insides, which is always nice!

The Plasmapistol is superior to the Infernus Pistol in my opinion, as you will face some lightly armoured tanks(speeders or those Dark Eldar thingies) quite often, trying to keep your DC from battle. In those situations, the improved range comes in quite handy, as you probably won’t be in melta range anyways.

Oh, and the pp is cheaper.

 

I think that he severely overestimates the effectiveness of the plasma pistol vs AV. The infernus is just leagues ahead in that department. The first time you get kited by a landraider or monolith, or tankshocked into an unfavorable position you'll wish you had that melta shot.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I think that he severely overestimates the effectiveness of the plasma pistol vs AV. The infernus is just leagues ahead in that department. The first time you get kited by a landraider or monolith, or tankshocked into an unfavorable position you'll wish you had that melta shot.

 

Nah, actually I didn't. Of course you are right, the Infernus Pistol really dominates the anti-tank weaponry in the DC, but I didn't suggest to kit out the DC for tank-hunting in the first place. I said that the DC will be kited around by fast, lightly armoured vehicles most of the time. Against Landspeeders, Dark Eldar transport vehicles and similar ligthly armoured transports/"battle" tanks the PP is worth it's points because of the increased range. I normally say that the IP's range doesn't matter if you want to assault, but in this case there are probably more useful targets than a simple landspeeder that you could charge.

 

I mean, the idea of kiting is that you lure a strong unit away from your units by sacrificing a fast, expendable vehicle/unit as a bait. Using a Landraider as said bait means that your opponent is using the probably most expensive unit in his army to take care of the DC by luring them away from battle and by doing so, he also makes sure that whatever is embarked on the LR is not going to see much action as well.

When confronted with a LR full of Deathstar-marines, I'd support them with a Jumpy-Melta squad of any kind because they'd be wiped out anyway in the following turn.

 

I, for one, only had one occasion where my DC(Lemartes only, to be precise), was "kited" by a Landraider. That's because it was the only enemy unit left on the battlefield against a friend's Space Wolves.

 

 

 

Snorri

 

Edit: schtoopid grammar mistake!

[Morollan]

The first time you get kited by a landraider or monolith, or tankshocked into an unfavorable position you'll wish you had that melta shot.

 

I'm struggling to work out how a vehicle that moves 6" is going to kite me in the first place. As I said before, I generally rely on other units to bust up high AV stuff.

[knife&fork]

I mean, the idea of kiting is that you lure a strong unit away from your units by sacrificing a fast, expendable vehicle/unit as a bait. Using a Landraider as said bait means that your opponent is using the probably most expensive unit in his army to take care of the DC by luring them away from battle and by doing so, he also makes sure that whatever is embarked on the LR is not going to see much action as well.

When confronted with a LR full of Deathstar-marines, I'd support them with a Jumpy-Melta squad of any kind because they'd be wiped out anyway in the following turn.

 

I, for one, only had one occasion where my DC(Lemartes only, to be precise), was "kited" by a Landraider. That's because it was the only enemy unit left on the battlefield against a friend's Space Wolves.

 

First I think I should add that I'm talking about JP DC, in DoA style list.

If something is fast enough not to get killed by the DC it's very rarely the closest unit on the board anyway.

 

Land raider kiting is actually a very good counter DC tactic, particularly with the redeemer. The large size, all around AV14 and PotMs is a nasty combination when used in a creative manner. Whatever unit was riding in the raider are not too badly affected by the lack of transport since DoA is all about close quarters combat anyway.

 

 

I'm struggling to work out how a vehicle that moves 6" is going to kite me in the first place. As I said before, I generally rely on other units to bust up high AV stuff.

 

First time it was the only thing left on that flank. Second time it was DS in. I don't rely on DC for anti-tank, I'm saying that they benefit from that capability because it's a unit that you don't have full control of.

[SnorriSnorrison]

First I think I should add that I'm talking about JP DC, in DoA style list.

If something is fast enough not to get killed by the DC it's very rarely the closest unit on the board anyway.

 

Land raider kiting is actually a very good counter DC tactic, particularly with the redeemer. The large size, all around AV14 and PotMs is a nasty combination when used in a creative manner. Whatever unit was riding in the raider are not too badly affected by the lack of transport since DoA is all about close quarters combat anyway.

 

Mh, I'd imagine that a Landraider is not going to survive the turn my units drop when fielding a DoA army. Melta-HG, Assault Squads, Sanguinary Guard, Stormraven...there's so much Melta that I'm doubting your example. No offence meant, it just appears not very likely that a LR is actually able to kite around DC. :lol:

 

 

To get back again to the actual discussion:

 

A LR is a threat indeed, and many times have I failed to inflict enough damage remove it from the table. However to use this as kiting element seems odd, a LR is usually not faster as the DC or any other element in our armies that carries Meltaguns. Most of the time, your opponent will rely on faster vehicles to kite DC around, and that's where the PP is better due the range, because if you are in IP-range, you are in charge range as well which implies a big mistake on your opponent's side - and we have to assume that you're opponent is at least equal in experience to you.

 

So when having an IP on the DC unit and you're up to face a LR, you could have also an assault squad next to it, even if only for support. The more melta, the better.

 

 

 

Snorri

[knife&fork]

Mh, I'd imagine that a Landraider is not going to survive the turn my units drop when fielding a DoA army. Melta-HG, Assault Squads, Sanguinary Guard, Stormraven...there's so much Melta that I'm doubting your example. No offence meant, it just appears not very likely that a LR is actually able to kite around DC. ;)

 

That might work the first time you play DoA vs someone. Every game after that they are going to make damn sure that taking out any high value targets on the drop will either be impossible or extremely risky.

 

To kite DC you don't have to outrun them, having a single fist or hammer that only hits and pens on sixes is plenty enough. Specially when you can use PotMs and toast a couple of them each turn.

Eventually the DC will nail that landraider but leading away and decimating what is likely a large part of your points and killing power is usually going to be well worth it from your opponents pov.

[MadMek83]

I usually run my DC with Jumppack and Lemmy... However last minor game I tried something new and ran small detachment (7) of bolter DC instead. They advanced and shot, they advanced and shot. 3+ armor and 4+ FnP made them really absorb fire and they made swiss cheese out of full tactical marine squad. I am quite impressed. I usually use my DC as hammer unit this is very good with jump pack DC. However bolter ones did surprisingly well...

 

When I get my drop pods I will use hammer and anvil tactic that current gaming tables allow and that makes drop podded DC with a chaplain excellent. I am still wondering should I kit my drop pod DC... with bolters or regularly with CCW. I probably go CCW option though.

 

But however I equip them, I've found out that even if my DC doesn't destroy enemy unit on charge it will bind units usually very effective allowing rest army to maneuver with bit easier. My opponents are scared of DC and usually put more effort to stop them. I just need to find ways to make this more my advantages.

[Mezkh]

For 300 points, 10 bolter DC 2xfist in a Rhino is a really nails unit. Resilient, shooty and assaulty, loads of dice as well as double WS5 powerfists. Great spearhead or firefighter unit.

 

Now you can make a nice jump pack unit with 6 or 7 marines for your HQ to lead as well. my experience with them is they are impossible to kite or escape from, so I'm wondering who has actually tried it vs theoryhammering the rage rule?

[JamesI]

For 300 points, 10 bolter DC 2xfist in a Rhino is a really nails unit. Resilient, shooty and assaulty, loads of dice as well as double WS5 powerfists. Great spearhead or firefighter unit.

 

Now you can make a nice jump pack unit with 6 or 7 marines for your HQ to lead as well. my experience with them is they are impossible to kite or escape from, so I'm wondering who has actually tried it vs theoryhammering the rage rule?

I've used fast vehicles to kite DC before. The last time mine were really kited badly was in 4th edition, so different rules then.

[knife&fork]

Now you can make a nice jump pack unit with 6 or 7 marines for your HQ to lead as well. my experience with them is they are impossible to kite or escape from, so I'm wondering who has actually tried it vs theoryhammering the rage rule?

 

I've run them. While there's no escape unless you really mess up the initial deployment they can be led astray.

 

One interesting counter tactic I ran into playing against mech guard. My opponent was running Marbo and plucked him down next to my DC in the middle of some dangerous terrain, wrecks to be exact. Demo charge took a few and the following dangerous terrain tests a few more. That little diversion cost me half the DC and two turns where they went off in the completely wrong direction.

[Mezkh]

Here is an example of how you can't really kite JP DC. 2" coherency and 12" move + 6" assault is too much to play with.

 

Blood Angels Jumpers + Astorath vs Ultramarines.

 

http://imghst.co.nz/uDdTCqXKTN.jpg

 

BA drop close, kill a Rhino

 

http://imghst.co.nz/QnhpTMcbbA.jpg

 

Ultras Landspeeder comes on and Ultras Retaliate

 

http://imghst.co.nz/GntPqt0EUa.jpg

 

Exploiting 2" coherency and 12" move to give the DC the option of charging the Termies or even the Tacs if you wanted to. The powerweapons, thunderhammer and Astorath will get into combat and eat the Termies, and with the assault squad tying up the SM captain from striking the DC, odds are they'll be eating through Ultras for the rest of the theoretical scenario.

[JamesI]

Mezkh, the problem comes in when you play places that don't allow that interpretation of rage. Look at the INAT FAQ (so anyone taking DC to Adepticon) that would be illegal there.

[Mezkh]

True.. not how we play it in this hemisphere though I'll keep it in mind if I ever end up at adepticon :)

[JamesI]

True.. not how we play it in this hemisphere though I'll keep it in mind if I ever end up at adepticon :)

You're playing it correct by the wording, but that isn't entirely accepted.

[Sir Blayse]

Yeah, that won't fly at our LGS. I'm not that worried about Speeders kiting my DC. It only takes a second to blast one out of the air and there is only so much room for them to get around.

I'm also not a fan of pure DoA, I think running 2x ML dev squads for fire support. DoA is nice when you can either drop in and pop a vehicle, then blow them to bits with MLs or blast a vehicle and get to assault the goodies inside.

 

Also with the current meta's out there, it's hard to play to win without the high strength, long range firepower.

 

Also, proper placement of DC should cutdown on enemies getting to kite them as well.

[Mezkh]

True, I think it's at the least clearer than the drop pod rules though ;)

[Zynk Kaladin]

How good are DC against IG parking lots? With the sheer number of attacks I'm guessing their krak grenades would do some damage to enemy Russes. I'm making a 5 man unit of DC with Lemartes(I have a totally epic idea for my DIY lemmy), but I'm not sure how to deliver them to my enemy. My core "all commers" list is 3x10 RAS(PF, x2 Meltaguns), 2 Sanguinary Priests, 3 multimelta attack bikes, and a libby. Would a razorback for DC be the best route to compliment my list?

[AGPO]

You only ever get one attack with a grenade, so it's a waste of your DC. Use regular assault marines or outflanking scouts for this job.

[Xenith]

How good are DC against IG parking lots? With the sheer number of attacks I'm guessing their krak grenades would do some damage to enemy Russes.

As stated, you only ever get one grenade attack. Any why would you ever use them? Your DC will be getting 4 auto S5 hits on rear armour against a stationary lot, and if you have some hammers/fists in there, all the better.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Alright, so just smack the tanks with all of their hate. Duly noted. So would a razorback be a good transport for them to compliment my list?

 

thanks!

[SnorriSnorrison]

Alright, so just smack the tanks with all of their hate. Duly noted. So would a razorback be a good transport for them to compliment my list?

 

thanks!

 

Probably not. Even in a friendly environment, a RB as the only armour value on your side of the table won't survive longer that 1 turn. In your list, I'd go for JP since that's all that you got, or a SR, but that's very expensive, even more than the JP. After your opponent got rid of the RB, your DC stands in the open, vulnerable to AP2/1 fire and slow as hell. The most terrible scenario imho.

 

 

So say 4-5 JP DC w/ Lemmy, and one powerfist/hammer could be a way to go in your situation, you won't need any powerweapons as you are playing IG and already got Lemmy in there.

 

Should be around 340~ ish points.

 

 

 

Snorri

[Zynk Kaladin]

As someone who likes their JPers, sweet. Reflecting on tactics, I don't think rage will be too much of a problem in my list because I try to get in close as fast as possible anyway. I'll get to work on them as soon as I can B)

 

thanks!

[eyeslikethunder]

True.. not how we play it in this hemisphere though I'll keep it in mind if I ever end up at adepticon :D

You're playing it correct by the wording, but that isn't entirely accepted.

Etc has the same ruling and another example where that would be illegal