the jeske Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 well at least technicly we got 2 chaos dex in this edition too. one just wasnt released . More then a few designers from GW told us through the years that there were plans/work on a different legion book . And while I realy dont like fluff , to be honest after what Thorpe did to chaos in his dex , I dont think that Ward fluff could make it any worse . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 It's not the 'over the top' part that bugs me, it's the 'what the hell?!?' moments...like BA's and Necrons bro-fisting, Ultramarines and Tau giving each other high fives, and Grey Knights soaking themselves in the blood of Sisters of Battle. So yeah, I fear him writing our fluff. We'd probably end up hanging out with Grey Knights, or giving Guardsman hugs... And the fact that he turns those ":cuss?!?" moments into in-game stuff. Case in point, Grey Knights with daemon weapons, C'Tan Shards, deep-striking Land Raiders, and so on. I dread to see how he'll "re-interpret" Chaos background, and what abominations against fluff he'll bring onto the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 It's not the 'over the top' part that bugs me, it's the 'what the hell?!?' moments...like BA's and Necrons bro-fisting, Ultramarines and Tau giving each other high fives, and Grey Knights soaking themselves in the blood of Sisters of Battle. So yeah, I fear him writing our fluff. We'd probably end up hanging out with Grey Knights, or giving Guardsman hugs... The Blood Angels+Necron love connection was somewhat strange, I guess the red thirst doesn't apply to 10w-30. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Basically this is how it works: You can't win everyone over. If Ward, or someone else for that matter, writes the codex and it's too 'strong': People complain If Ward, or someone else for that matter, writes the codex and it's got butchered fluff: People complain If Ward, or someone else for that matter, writes the codex and it's still getting thumped by GK/BA/SW/IG/ETC: People complain The best case scenario and I would think most of the very longtime Chaos players would agree: 1) Give us the flexibility and flavour to accurately portray our legion/renegade of choice. And 2) give us unit decent unit options that allow us diversity while retaining competitiveness on the table top. Fluff? This is again a no-win scenario. I guarantee regardless of what comes out between the statlines, the fluff will be bitched about. Personally I'm leaving it up the the Black Library as they milk the Heresy cow for all it's worth, to dictate the fluff. I'm just hoping the codex lets me represent it properly on the table top. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Basically this is how it works: You can't win everyone over. If Ward, or someone else for that matter, writes the codex and it's too 'strong': People complain If Ward, or someone else for that matter, writes the codex and it's got butchered fluff: People complain If Ward, or someone else for that matter, writes the codex and it's still getting thumped by GK/BA/SW/IG/ETC: People complain The best case scenario and I would think most of the very longtime Chaos players would agree: 1) Give us the flexibility and flavour to accurately portray our legion/renegade of choice. And 2) give us unit decent unit options that allow us diversity while retaining competitiveness on the table top. Fluff? This is again a no-win scenario. I guarantee regardless of what comes out between the statlines, the fluff will be bitched about. Personally I'm leaving it up the the Black Library as they milk the Heresy cow for all it's worth, to dictate the fluff. I'm just hoping the codex lets me represent it properly on the table top. Pretty much agree. My main complain and I think all Chaos players main complain is that the current codex no longer makes it possible to field Legion themed armies and have them still be viable on the tabletop. I care about CSM because of the Legions that have fought a Long War for 10,000 years and not some mealy mouthed renegades like Huron. I don't want to see broken Legions running around and not caring about their own history or the motives that drove them for so long. As a player of the game give me back the option to field varied options that are relevant and have a chance of winning. We want diversity and the ability to accurately portray what WE want in our own versions of Legions and renegades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watch Commander Danek Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 What I don't get is this "it's either the fluff or mechanics" mentality everyone here is showing? Not only is this a rumour, but we have another source in a another thread stating Matt Ward is not working on this Codex. So how about we all rejoice, cross our fingers they do a good job and be safe in the knowledge that more than likely we won't see World Eaters with Librarians or somesuch nonsense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 World Eater Librarians do exist however. It's just that their job is to suppress the powers of others by acting as "nulls", and to keep a record of all the skulls offered to Khorne through out the ages of eternity. There's also the mysterious "Blood Priests" who are only ever seen alone, and never ever more, who constantly wander, forever tending to all the different monoliths and shrines dedicated to Khorne or his favored Champions. TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 reading those rules i can tell you for one its not gonna happen, purely becasue one codex does not anyloner use anyunits from another codex. so no codex smurf stuff alongside him. not that they will need it. and we all knew this was comming anyway as the rumours have been floating round for a while... good to hear people are still trying. also take a hint from the necron release that gw have tightened their lips uber tight now. us indies get told nothing. they wouldnt even tell us that necrons were comming till after beasts of war did their very daft thing(theres apparently now a legal battle there now...) there would be more value at this moent in time paying attention to the 6th ed rumours as wells anyways ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 World Eater Librarians do exist however. It's just that their job is to suppress the powers of others by acting as "nulls", and to keep a record of all the skulls offered to Khorne through out the ages of eternity. There's also the mysterious "Blood Priests" who are only ever seen alone, and never ever more, who constantly wander, forever tending to all the different monoliths and shrines dedicated to Khorne or his favored Champions. TDA Really? ;) Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Anyone else praying for Phil Kelly? Also, what's not to like about deep-striking Land Raiders? ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I fear him writing our fluff. We'd probably end up hanging out with Grey Knights, or giving Guardsman hugs... ......or Khorne and Slaanesh going out on a date and being serenaded by Eldrad and a troupe of Harlequins. OT. If this happens and soon, I'll be a happy bearer of the word again. I don't feel a huge desire to be OP but it would be nice to put the fear of Lorgar back into loyalists and Xenos alike. Saa .....or something like that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_starrise Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 From a gameplay perspective I'd like codex-lites kinda like the mini rulebook. I rarely, if ever, read the fluff of codex more than once so paying as much as a squad box for a book over 50% of which I read once & then get confused over when trying to reconcile it into the already established fluff & then the resultant fluff debates take longer than games lol. Plus, I really want the army customization & uniqueness of the last edition, even things as minor as doctrines & chapter deviation made things more interesting & allowed for greater differentiation in armies. That's why I honestly miss the legion differences in C:CSM. I feel now that our codex is a bridge between C:SM & C:SW while losing alot in translation. As much as I appreciate the fluff in the codex books, to be honest the level of confusion resultant from the ever changing fluff from book to book or even books w/in the same edition for different armies is what irks me the most. Like this whole image of how the Grey Knights are so non-human now that they have no qualms w/ killing off scores of Imperial citizens just because they saw them or killing off sisters for the sake of their blood but yet they're bed buddies w/ the chapter of space marines who make blood sacrifices. They used to be anti-daemon & the Witch Hunters were anti-psyker, now they've become anti-everything. Blood Angels are best buds w/ Grey Knights, Mechanicus & now Necrons & have more codex deviation than any other chapter but yet once were fairly codex adherent, not to mention having their own savior that in the prior days of the fluff would have drawn the eyes of the Inquisition & had them or at least him purged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2914989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watch Commander Danek Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 World Eater Librarians do exist however. It's just that their job is to suppress the powers of others by acting as "nulls", and to keep a record of all the skulls offered to Khorne through out the ages of eternity. Oh you know what I meant old friend. No fair dragging out RoC fluff :lol: besides fairly sure that bit was squatted into the Legion sacrificed all their Libby's? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 well at least technicly we got 2 chaos dex in this edition too. one just wasnt released . More then a few designers from GW told us through the years that there were plans/work on a different legion book . We didn't get it if it wasn't released, Jeske. And where is the other one? If the second wasn't released, when was the first? Or are you talking about the 4th Edition 'dex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 World Eater Librarians do exist however. It's just that their job is to suppress the powers of others by acting as "nulls", and to keep a record of all the skulls offered to Khorne through out the ages of eternity. Oh you know what I meant old friend. No fair dragging out RoC fluff :P besides fairly sure that bit was squatted into the Legion sacrificed all their Libby's? Hah, couldn't resist the chance :ermm: I'm not sure, I've never actually read that part anywhere. And besides, Khorne has only ever been described as hating the use of psychic powers to cowardly attack from afar instead of face-to-face. So to use ones psychic powers to suppress another psyker's powers and then go in for the kill in melee is something he would greatly appreciate I reckon. If nothing else but for the bitter irony of being bested in not just hand to hand combat but truly on the mental plane as well :no: TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Their Index Astartes article states that one of the first things the World Eaters did when pledging themselves to Khorne was hunt down and sacrifice all their Librarians in honour of their new God. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 It's not the 'over the top' part that bugs me, it's the 'what the hell?!?' moments...like BA's and Necrons bro-fisting, Ultramarines and Tau giving each other high fives, and Grey Knights soaking themselves in the blood of Sisters of Battle. So yeah, I fear him writing our fluff. We'd probably end up hanging out with Grey Knights, or giving Guardsman hugs... In fairness to the man, there have been numerous cases of Imperial forces teaming up with non-Imperial ones to combat a greater menace, so the Ultramarine/Tau thing isn't so bad. The Necron thing is somewhat dubious, but with the new direction he seems to be taking their background it might change. I do worry for a Chaos Ward dex though, especially as his rules design doesn't actually produce hyper-competitive armies (the dominant tournament races are IG from Cruddace and SW from Kelly). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watch Commander Danek Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Their Index Astartes article states that one of the first things the World Eaters did when pledging themselves to Khorne was hunt down and sacrifice all their Librarians in honour of their new God. Ah HA! Knew I read it somewhere! :devil: The null idea is an interesting one also, but redundant with the collars of khorne isn't it? Although if my memory serves me well those psykers make awesome null wands for khorne worshippers as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Matt writing our dex... Berzerker Landraider, its a Landraider with a Dreadnought close combat weapon and ws8 always strikes first and has 4d6 attacks. (oh its also scoring). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Matt writing our dex... Berzerker Landraider, its a Landraider with a Dreadnought close combat weapon and ws8 always strikes first and has 4d6 attacks. (oh its also scoring). I would buy that for a dollar. I am just interested in what they will do with Abaddon, you would think for someone rated higher than Horus in the eyes of the Gods would have a better fluff rep instead of 12 crusades of failure Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 would have a better fluff rep instead of 12 crusades of failure Once more, we don't know the actual intention of most of those crusades. We know the first one was likely to test the strength of the Imperium. Check, I'm sure we can all say he succeeded in testing their strength. On a deeper scale, the Legions were ravaged by the civil war started by the Emperors Children when they ran out of slaves to play with so it might even have been a political move to unite the Legions against a common foe under the pretense of razing the Imperium while actually just weakening the other Legions to give himself some breathing room and regain control of the Eye. Well, not to mention the objective of claiming Drach'nyen. Same with the other Crusades. And we do know that the Gothic War had the objective of securing the Blackstone Fortresses, which would enable him to more easily destroy / capture Cadia. And I'm pretty sure that he did manage to secure two or three or them. So to call his crusades failures is not only wrong, it's ignorant. TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 So to call his crusades failures is not only wrong, it's ignorant.It is a common mistake. Mostly brought on by the ham-fisted handling of the Eye of Terror campaign's outcome. Looking closer at his various fluff pieces, some of them specifically state that he succeeded. Getting Drach'Nyen and the Talismans of Vaul as a few examples. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I'm hoping that the new codex has some mention of the various primarchs, but only if its done well. It feels so easy to screw up when you're writing about a demi-god/daemon/man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 So to call his crusades failures is not only wrong, it's ignorant.It is a common mistake. Mostly brought on by the ham-fisted handling of the Eye of Terror campaign's outcome. Looking closer at his various fluff pieces, some of them specifically state that he succeeded. Getting Drach'Nyen and the Talismans of Vaul as a few examples. I would also add "not getting turned into a Spawn" as being another evidence of success. The Gods do not show pity on the Marked, and he's Marked by all 4 of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Some of Abaddon's crusades/operations probably were failures (he failed to conquer Haran, for examples). But to say they all were is unfair. Case in point: Gothic War It seems difficult to call this as a victory for the Imperials - sure, Abaddon left and Planet Killer exploded (only to be rebuilt), but he escaped with some of the most powerful weapons ever seen. A draw at best, a Chaos victory at worst. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241292-the-new-chaos-rumour/page/2/#findComment-2915758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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