First Army

[Mezillious]

Hey guys, I'm new to Warhammer, been observing for quite some time but this is my first army.

 

So I have a small force of Space Marines (1 x 10 man tactical squad, 1 x 5 man devastator squad, 1 x Captain, 1 x Apothecary, 1 x Librarian - working on an assault squad next) who I am going to paint up as Raven Guard. I have a few questions about heraldry and how seriously players take the history as I haven't played or seen a game played yet.

 

1st question:

I want these guys to be 3rd company because I like the look of the black armour with red trim. However, the following two pieces of information seem to me to be contradictory.

 

"Each Company has a unique colour that its members wear, commonly on the shoulder plate rims..."

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex_Asta...Company_Colours

 

"The right shoulder guard trim denotes the type of Space Marine. Green is for tactical squads, red is for assault squads and yellow is for devastators. The left kneepad displays the company number."

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Raven_Guard#.Tr-usz25PN0

 

My first question is, since the Raven Guard also have symbols on their right shoulder pad which denotes squad type, do people use the shoulder trim as well for this purpose? I would like to be able to paint all of my marines from the same company the same colour scheme which means all would have black armour, a white aquilla, company chapter icon on the left shoulder pad, squad type icon on the right shoulder pad and red shoulder trims to denote 3rd company. Would people have a problem with this? What difference does it make if they do?

 

2nd Question:

The captain of the Raven Guard 3rd Company is Kayvaan Shrike. The captain model I have (from Assault on Black Reach) is not Kayvaan Shrike. Does this matter? Can I say it is him in different armour? Again, what difference does this make?

 

3rd Question:

This one is more of a statement than a question. I have come to the conclusion that if I were to add terminators to this force later on, which i am planning on doing, they could not be from 3rd company, since all terminators are veterans and therefore belong to 1st company. This would mean that my terminators would have white shoulder trims denoting 1st company. Terminators cannot exist outside of 1st company. Is this correct?

 

Thanks for the info guys, I want to make sure I get the lore right before I start because I like the idea that it is based on existing hierarchies and command structures. I have just enough OCD to think that is cool!

[Olis]

Firstly, I think the more recent depictions (if memory serves) have the shoulder pad trim denote company, rather than battlefield role. It's a system most players recognise relatively quickly and going with the older version tends to be confusing. I doubt anyone has a problem with this, but if anyone does, well, it's YOUR army. What are they going to do about it?

 

Secondly, it depends on who you're playing. Some players probably won't give you trouble about it (especially considering you are a new player) but I'd think there would be some out there that'd like to see you make an effort regarding your proxy, as in; modelling him so that he has the relevant wargear. In fact, I think this may be the only issue with him. If you can find a way of getting a wargear-accurate representation, no-one would bat an eyelid. Probably.

 

Lastly, Terminators usually, unless stated in specific cases, hail from the first company. The Raven Guard, iirc, are no different to the majority of other space marine chapters in regards to organisation. So, yes, your termies would indeed come from the First Company.

 

Hope this helps. :P

[Mezillious]

Thanks for the info, that's kind of what I was hoping about company colours. Just another quick question regarding my Captain, if I just present him as a captain of the 3rd company and not as Kayvaan Shrike, would this be easier or are players likely to have a problem with the fact that my captain of 3rd company isnt the same as the 'real' captain of 3rd company?

 

Thanks again!

 

Edit: Remembered a 4th question:

The librarian i have is Ezekiel of the Dark Angels. I have also read that Librarians have blue armour with gold trims regardless of chapter (as with apothecaries and white armour). My question is, will people have a problem with me having the Dark Angels' librarian (the model is very distinctive) or can I just say he is a Raven Guard librarian?

 

Again sorry for the weird questions, as I said i haven't seen or played a game yet so I'm not sure how easy-going players are with this kind of thing.

[Olis]

Nah, you could just handwave it as Kayvaan's predecessor or another captain before that, it doesn't really matter that much. I doubt anyone can be quite that anal about the fluff...

[OptiMAT]

Well, they might be, but your finger serves you well at times like those. :P

 

Do what you fancy.

[Bigdog]

First up welcome to the hobby.

 

Regarding your captain, you can just have him as a captain of the 3rd Company rather than a 'special character' like Shrike. That way you can equip him with whatever the model has.

 

Regarding your librarian - They are supposed to have blue armour, but personally I prefer to paint them up with regular coloured armour, and will usually spend a bit more time painting some detail on him. Black and gold trim would help him stand out from the rest of your army whilst still fitting the overall colour scheme. The actual model you use wouldn't personally bother me but Dark Angels Librarians have different psychic powers to codex marines so I'd be incluned to use the Exekiel mini but use him as a Raven Guard Librarian and paint him up as one.

 

At the end of the day so long as your miniatures equipment is similar to what you're using in game and painted to match your army, most players wont give a toss about what minis your using. Space Marines all look like space marines after all.

 

Pne last hint: To get a standard organisation chart legal army you'll also need another troops choice (tac squad or scouts) :)

[roninmodern]

Regarding shoulder trim color for companies vs battlefield roles, the trim color representing companies is what's in the Space Marine Codex and generally depicts Ultramarines and their successors.

 

Raven Guard are largely a codex chapter, but each has their own divergences from the Codex. With RG it's using shoulder trim to denote roles, as depicted in their Index Astartes article.

 

This page shows their shoulder markings near the bottom.

[Bannus]

1st question:

I want these guys to be 3rd company because I like the look of the black armour with red trim. However, the following two pieces of information seem to me to be contradictory.

 

"Each Company has a unique colour that its members wear, commonly on the shoulder plate rims..."

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex_Asta...Company_Colours

 

"The right shoulder guard trim denotes the type of Space Marine. Green is for tactical squads, red is for assault squads and yellow is for devastators. The left kneepad displays the company number."

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Raven_Guard#.Tr-usz25PN0

 

My first question is, since the Raven Guard also have symbols on their right shoulder pad which denotes squad type, do people use the shoulder trim as well for this purpose? I would like to be able to paint all of my marines from the same company the same colour scheme which means all would have black armour, a white aquilla, company chapter icon on the left shoulder pad, squad type icon on the right shoulder pad and red shoulder trims to denote 3rd company. Would people have a problem with this? What difference does it make if they do?

The Raven Guard have had no less than three documented ways of denoting their squads and companies. The contradictions are only because differences are rarely noted.

 

The latest scheme seems to meet your needs. They are currently following the normal Codex markings except they only paint one shoulderpad rim in the Company color.

 

2nd Question:

The captain of the Raven Guard 3rd Company is Kayvaan Shrike. The captain model I have (from Assault on Black Reach) is not Kayvaan Shrike. Does this matter? Can I say it is him in different armour? Again, what difference does this make?

You can say it is him - but you cannot use him to represent the special character because of WYSIWYG issues or (as has already been noted) you can use him to represent a different Captain of the 3rd Company (GW has Shrike and another model using the Captain kit with a single lightning claw for the Raven Guard 3rd Company).

 

3rd Question:

This one is more of a statement than a question. I have come to the conclusion that if I were to add terminators to this force later on, which i am planning on doing, they could not be from 3rd company, since all terminators are veterans and therefore belong to 1st company. This would mean that my terminators would have white shoulder trims denoting 1st company. Terminators cannot exist outside of 1st company. Is this correct?

If you wish to adhere to the fluff - yes. Remember, it is your army (and your money), so you can change that if you like.

 

Thanks for the info, that's kind of what I was hoping about company colours. Just another quick question regarding my Captain, if I just present him as a captain of the 3rd company and not as Kayvaan Shrike, would this be easier or are players likely to have a problem with the fact that my captain of 3rd company isnt the same as the 'real' captain of 3rd company?

As noted earlier - yes, this would be the best solution.

 

 

Edit: Remembered a 4th question:

The librarian i have is Ezekiel of the Dark Angels. I have also read that Librarians have blue armour with gold trims regardless of chapter (as with apothecaries and white armour). My question is, will people have a problem with me having the Dark Angels' librarian (the model is very distinctive) or can I just say he is a Raven Guard librarian?

No one should have any issue with it.