Vincent val Munshin Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I'm relatively new to Warhammer (I got seriously interested a couple years ago, and really started looking at it within the last year and a half). I've chosen a Dark Angels/ Raven Guard mixed geneseed chapter. I want to make this coflicted bloodline a major part of the backstory of my chapter, but I'm curious about just how far the Dark Angels would be willing to go to keep their secret. Would they, for instance, destroy a company of loyalist marines from another chapter to preserve their secret? I am of the belief they would, but I wanted to turn the idea over to more experienced Dark Angels fluff masters before I got too far in my writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 stop, first issue is the mixed geneseed. Its impossible, based on the science of wharhammer 40k to mix geneseed. Not to spoil your idea or anything, just that genetically speaking, you cannot splice Corax and The Lion together like that. For starters, you imply you know better than the Emperor, a big no no. For more advice on creating a chapter, in suggest you come over to the Liber Astartes forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 On how far would they go is a matter of personal opinion.I don't believe they would kill brother marines unless soemthing very dire happened, but some may think it's possible. On your chapter I do see a "flaw" though. The mixed geneseed means they wouldn't be Unforgiven, true Sons of the Lion, thus privy to the secret. DA only share their secret with Sucessors they trust 200%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent val Munshin Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Thanks man, new to it as I said. And I'll head on over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent val Munshin Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 See, my original idea was that they were being overseen by a Dark Angels Chaplain, and while working in conjunction with a Raven Guard Company, they discovered one of the Unforgiven. Ultimately, they destroy the Raven Guard company to protect the secret, thus proving their loyalty to the Dark Angels. Which, I suppose still works to prove their loyalty, but I'll have to remove the mixed geneseed if that's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I think in that situation, (go pure geneseed), they could still be with the RG on a mission. However, the standard marine will not know. At all. Only the Int-Chap and any Veterans/DA Vets you have. We have various levels of knowledge, only the Inner Circle know of the fallen in any DA chapter. Thats all Libbies, IC, 1st company, command squads, Company-Masters, Ravenwing and any other vets in the chapter who have been raised to the IC. My advice would be to do some background research on the chapter, best place to start is the current codex, then Lexicanum. Hope this helps somewhat, ill see you on the Liber as well though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Mixed geneseed is not impossible , the Relictors IIRC have mixed geneseed. But those 2 particular geneseed are very unlikely to be mixed. DA geneseed is very rarely used to create Chapters and RavenGuard geneseed is far from perfect thus being used only very rarely (3/5 of all Chapters have Ultramarine geneseed). As for the story, eliminating a full company is no mean fit especially a Ravenguard one... you would need at least 2 companies of your chapter to get the job well done... and even then it would be hard to do it 100% clean with no loose ends... and your chapter losses would be staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent val Munshin Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I see I'll need more research. And thanks for the advice, I'll have to look into this a bit harder as to who I'll be mixing,or if indeed I'll be mixing at all. As for how they would destroy a whole company, it would be perhaps a little more... underhanded than would be considered proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 so...orbital bombardment?? 'Oh, sorry, i thought Shrike was clear...at least....thats what he told us....' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent val Munshin Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 More of a "Blow up their engines as a Chaos fleet was attacking then take off" sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 In the Black Templar Codex I believe there is a short story about them capturing a 'marine in black armour' on a co-op mission wirth the Dark Angels, when the BT's refused to hand the prisoner to the DA's, The DA Battle Barge/Cruiser powed weapons and targeted the BT ship. BT's handed over the prisoner, and then they were never seen again...... Not word fro word, but there's precedence to your idea. Cheers, Jono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 In the Black Templar Codex I believe there is a short story about them capturing a 'marine in black armour' on a co-op mission wirth the Dark Angels, when the BT's refused to hand the prisoner to the DA's, The DA Battle Barge/Cruiser powed weapons and targeted the BT ship. BT's handed over the prisoner, and then they were never seen again...... Not word fro word, but there's precedence to your idea. Cheers, Jono How many times do I have to tell you people? The Company Master told the Marshall that his ship had an astropath, a filthy mutant in it. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 First rule is its a game so play what you like. Write what you enjoy. Regarding the DA and other chapters, there is more than one instance of the DA threatening other chapters over a fallen. The Black Templars is one. There is a Login Grimnar novel in which the whole thing is basically about the capture of a fallen. In it a DA battlebarge and a SW battle barge are in full scale war, trying to blow the other up. So yes, they would. Although an entire company would be a bit much. An entire battle barge? You bet they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tengo Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It's not as simple as DA Killing Loyalist marines because they didn't obey them in regards to fallen prisoners or stuff like that, think of it more as, we're loyal to the emperor and anyone serving his name, but at the same time, we aren't going to be stopped in our hunt for the fallen. Perhaps you could incorporate Ravenguard with your Ravenwing contingent, Perhaps a scouting ravenwing force was looking for a group of fallen and arrived just as a band of Raven Guard were just about to execute the surrendering heretics. The RG were cut off, their commander had been killed and their ship destroyed, and they're all that's left of their expeditionary force. The leader of the RW force asked for the heretics to be handed over, so that they could be interrogated, and the RG happily complied. In return, and out of honour, the RW offered to bring the RG back onto their ship, so that they could arrange a return to their companies, and when the RG replied their company had been destroyed (feel free to insert claims of a 'Strange Marine in Black Armour' in the explanation of how the RW ships and company were destroyed ;)) The RW asked if they would like to operate as a footguard (The RG are also a bike/speeder heavy army, so maybe they have a few bikes or speeders that operate directly with the footguard) and the RG were happy to accept, as it was clear that the RW were hunting the same enemy that had destroyed their chapter brothers. That would be my explanation if I were to field some Raven Guard units in a Dark angel army, the shared Raven theme just makes everything alot easier :huh: but yeah take it from that sort of angle and fluff it out to your satisfaction rather than the shared geneseed idea, if you don't want pious 40K fluff students interrogating you that is :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Mixed geneseed is not impossible , the Relictors IIRC have mixed geneseed. They do? What's that in? IA 10: Siege of Badab II does make a reference to "chimeric" geneseed in the Minotaurs section- geneseed that is from a prohibited source, or mixed, or adulterated, or genetically tampered with. So it does sound like it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 IIRC Relictors are suspected to have Ultramarine and Dark Angel genessed, Article was in a WD Index Astartes. Old one so memory may be betraying me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Here's the Lexicanum link for the Relictors, however it doesn't confirm that they have a mixed geneseed: Relictors I've never seen any confirmed uses of mixed geneseed, so for now maybe you shouldn't go that route. It is an interesting idea, and maybe if you can find some other examples then it could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrog Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Mixed geneseed is not necessarily impossible. This is one of the possible causes of the 21st "Cursed" Founding. Of course, the exact cause of the curse is unknown, either mixed geneseed, or attempting to "improve" geneseed, or messing around with Chaos-tainted seed. Of course, all of the chapters created in that founding have some sort of horrible flaw or deficiency... IF (and it's a big if) I decided to use mixed seed, I would not explicitly state it, merely give cryptic hints. Perhaps officially they are a Dark Angels successor, but show subtle Raven Guard traits (such as pale skin and jet black hair). Combining those two could only create the most emo chapter ever, though. When you mentioned "how far?", my mind instantly jumped to to bit of fluff that Grotsmasha is referring to. The Dark Angels at first tried to discourage the Templars from even helping them, used intimidation to get what they wanted (not sure why that worked on Templars of all people, rather than prompting cries of "Heresy!"), and then the Templars vanish without a trace. It's not hard to imagine what happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I've never seen any confirmed uses of mixed geneseed, so for now maybe you shouldn't go that route. It is an interesting idea, and maybe if you can find some other examples then it could work. Seems like you weren't looking very hard. :D The source of the Relictors' geneseed is largely based on gene stock taken from the laboratorium on Mars and is thought to be composed of that grown from the Ultramarine and Dark Angels. If this is the case, then it would appear that the High Lords of Terra's reluctance to sanction the use of Dark Angel's geneseed in the creation of new Chapters has relaxed somewhat. ~ Index Astartes, Relictors + It is also the case that the processes utilised by the Adeptus Mechanicus to store and to cultivate tithed geneseed from the Adeptus Astartes may become corrupted and imperfect. Though the particulars of a new Founding are shrouded in secrecy and arcane ritual, it is known that all of a new chapter's genetic make-up is not always drawn from the seed of one donor chapter. Instead, a new chapter may represent a genetic cocktail of the geneseed of others, and although purity testing is rigorous in the extreme, it is perfectly possible that these disparate elements may react with one another at a later date, in ways quite unforeseeable by their creators, and so the seed of a disastrous mutation or character flaw is sown. ~ Index Astartes IV, Rogue Sons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 In the Black Templar Codex I believe there is a short story about them capturing a 'marine in black armour' on a co-op mission wirth the Dark Angels, when the BT's refused to hand the prisoner to the DA's, The DA Battle Barge/Cruiser powed weapons and targeted the BT ship. BT's handed over the prisoner, and then they were never seen again...... Not word fro word, but there's precedence to your idea. Cheers, Jono How many times do I have to tell you people? The Company Master told the Marshall that his ship had an astropath, a filthy mutant in it. :lol: Yes and after that they jumped directly into the warp...Silly templars. When you mentioned "how far?", my mind instantly jumped to to bit of fluff that Grotsmasha is referring to. The Dark Angels at first tried to discourage the Templars from even helping them, used intimidation to get what they wanted (not sure why that worked on Templars of all people, rather than prompting cries of "Heresy!"), and then the Templars vanish without a trace. It's not hard to imagine what happened to them. Because we are the first legion and our record as a chapter is flawless.Everybody celebrates our chapter.In the religious setting of 40k such honors carry a huge weight on by themselves.So a second founding chapter even as powerfull and successful as the templars would offer respect to demands of a first founding chapter of such prowess,let alone the first one.So my answer is out of respect. The source of the Relictors' geneseed is largely based on gene stock taken from the laboratorium on Mars and is thought to be composed of that grown from the Ultramarine and Dark Angels. If this is the case, then it would appear that the High Lords of Terra's reluctance to sanction the use of Dark Angel's geneseed in the creation of new Chapters has relaxed somewhat.~ Index Astartes, Relictors Blast and damnation,not only they trifle with our holy genesheed,they mingle it with those arrogant fools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 DP!sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eremiel Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 DP!sorry! You claim DP, but all I see is HERESY!!!! YOU ARE NOT FORGIVEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 DP!sorry! You claim DP, but all I see is HERESY!!!! YOU ARE NOT FORGIVEN! He's Unforgiven, what else is new? <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 DP!sorry! You claim DP, but all I see is HERESY!!!! YOU ARE NOT FORGIVEN! He's Unforgiven, what else is new? :lol: What the man said.NOW STAND ASIDE! :pinch: I have xenos to deal with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 To be fair, that one example is pretty extreme. I mean, Cypher is pretty much the number one prize, so I can see the Dark Angels acting extra vigilantly (heretics would say "irrationally") in that one specific instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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