crossbonesx11 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Alright I have this modeling idea in my head. It starts with the Contemptor Dread. Then escalates to (at least) SIX Contemptor Dreads. From there I decide I want it to have a Steampunk and Knight theme. I then decided for it to be an Iron Hands (I have a "modern" terminatoresque, cold Iron Hands army) successor chapter. So I got to really nitpicking (because I really want to put my heart in this) and it is hard for me to justify so many Contemptors in a successor chapter. Now I am kind of leaning towards just doing them as Irons Hands, but I am wanting to use a lot of brass (throwing around the idea of brass bionics). Thought about maybe doing them as Iron Fists or Iron Knights, because I like the visuals, but come back to justifying the Contemptors. I am going to use a lot of bionics, Mechanicus bits, Steam Knight heads and backpacks from Maxmini, Steampunk weapons from Maxmini and probably some Empire bits. I just keeping going around and around and around and around in circles. Do I want to just build them as a succesor Chapter that has no business having such glorious war relics or build them as Iron Hands and have them look unlinke any "established" Iron Hands? Here is a pic of a guy I just threw together quickly with bits I had: http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd401/Crossbonesx11/52c950bc.jpg Oh and in these situations I am the guy that says "Just do want makes you happy," so give me some honest opinions because I am really up in the air. Well thanks for listening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 For me, fluff is the overarching architecture for the story of an army. In this case I recommend painting them however you want to paint them and explain it away at a later point. Bear in mind that just because you have six contemptors for an army doesn't mean you're using them all the time, this allows a slight scale-back in the explanation, hopefully. Now then. Ahem. SIX?! :blink: What for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathar the great Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well, if they are related to the Iron Hands, they might also have a beneficial relationship to the Mechanicum. Maybe they built them six dreadnoughts in the likeness of the Contemptor design for saving something for them. Still leaning out of the accepted fluff window a bit, but believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hey, Alex here, how's about if you want a good excuse to use contemptors you say, they are pre-heresy beefed up dreads, so over the years they have become adorned with all sorts of tokens and shiz, but to be honest I don't see any problem with making an ironhands army or an iron hands succesor army different to the "common knowledge", for a succesor look at the relictors? the ultramarines succesor that just aint ultramarines, for an actual legion chapter you can just say that they are iron hands that have extensve bionics, and a bunch of crazy techmarines. FLUFF! To me fluff is the background to an army, BUT not just any army, Your army, to me theirs nothing wrong with saying "I'm gonna do a static raven guard army", the two things that come into consideration is, why are those units in the army, and why are they in that position? for instance raven guard to have sternguard seems a little bit of so to include them think up a cool idea. and for the static army, you could per say modle them all with silencers and say that they are the ravenguard 8th company and they deal with enemies by mass fire power and radio jamming, obliterating the enemy without a sound! If you want to create a cool army with lots of conversions its as simple as its an iron hands succesor with a crazy techmarine who experiments with devises and creates cool new weaponry, and his squad of servitors can be modled as an inquisitor, a mechanicum techpriest and two or three other guys to represent that he is'nt doing anything heretical but they just want to keep an eye on him. Games Workshop fluff may be cannon, but they chop and change their cannon so much that after a while that whole boat will just sink (see what I did their) and you'll just create your own fluff anyway, if you realy wanted to you could create a 19th legion, now before you attack me with rage, the missing two legions were for people to create their own anyway (or so I was told), dont worry about other peoples opinions on fluff, because after all.. you guessed, it... their just opinions, each person dictates 40k in their own way, and their's nothing wrong with bending the fluff a little, GW do it all the time. For 6 contemptors you could use the space marine codex and take a master of the forge, taking 3 normal dreads as elites and 3 as heavy support if you want to take them as normal dreads or well are prepared to, if not then just ask your oponent if s/he'll let you take 6 in exchange for some sort of special overpointed special character that allows you to do it. If not then just have a back up list as planned. At my local GW we are allowed to use made up characters aslong as the points cost is appropriate and we have run it by our manager first, if its a local gaming store then just pop in and have a chat with him, if its a friends house then similarly have a chat, if its not for gaming at all its just painting, then who cares if you have an illegal army! But yeah its your army not anybody elses, you make the descisions, if you think something looks cool do it and count it as something else, or just make it an aesthetic! Hope I helped, It's just my two cence, + 2 cence +2 cence so well about 6 cence in total! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrog Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 There may be precedent for a successor having access to such equipment. The Mentor Legion is noted to have exceptional equipment, and they weren't founded until the 26th founding. The Sons of Medusa are an Iron Hands offshoot, with similar tech levels. In addition, they practice tech-exorcism, meaning they can purify and reuse enemy tech. So maybe all those Contemptors started out as Chaos Contemptors... If you are going for a DIY chapter, I would say make them a 'pet' chapter of the AdMech, like Grey Knights are for the Inquisition, or Minotaurs are for the High Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 There may be precedent for a successor having access to such equipment. The Mentor Legion is noted to have exceptional equipment, and they weren't founded until the 26th founding. This is correct, and was fully worthy of being said twice. Look at the Dark Angels successor chapter Consecrators. Most likely not first founding, but they carry pre-heresy weapons, supposedly preserving them. For when the Lion returns... Consider saying your chapter was also given tech, Dreadnoughts, to look after, or that perhaps they were given the Ancients to guide them in their new founding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Agreed over-and-over to what's being said. Fluff is a good framework, but the universe is a BIG place. Lots of room for all manner of evolutions and off-shoots. As has been said, I was thinking the same things that were mentioned, on a couple of levels. If this is a successor chapter, there's nothing to say they are 'watered down'. Perhaps they are the elite of the elite being grouped, and not a 'fledgling' force. With that in mind, and the framework fluff in place for Iron Hands in general, take it any way you want to fit with your vision. I'm already thinking it could be that these battle proven 'knights' are the custodians of the 'Grand Armoury'. How can they have six (Agreed again - SIX?! ... Crazy, but awesome!) Contemptor Dreadnaughts? They maintain these ancient relics for the chapter, and choose when it's time to deploy them. Young chapter with awesome arsenal explained. Might I even suggest; Build your first one-or-two Contemptors pretty much as-is. These are awesome new miniatures that are amazing without any major conversions. These are the 'newer' less damaged weapons in the arsenal. Then, do the rest with varying levels of modifications and repairs as suggested. These more ancient weapons have been found/reclaimed and returned to glorious service. If you take this idea to the entire army, you can start with a force that is simpler to build and get painted to play with, and then fill it out will more-and-more over-the-top converted models to really run with the theme and fill out the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Lots of bionics with a brass finish shouldn't be a problem, that's just your army's style, just like Dark Angels like to wear robes and Space Wolves all sorts of talimans. As for the Contemptors, 6 dreadnoughts per Chapter is not a lot and you cannot field them as Contemptors anyways in normal games AFAIK. For the fluff you could either have a particularly gifted or audacious Master of the Forge, who designed something that looks similar to a Contemptor or you could have your Chapter find an STC or parts of it and the result is what could be salvaged. Also not being 1st or 2nd Founding does not necessarily mean young. 3rd-20th Foundings are between M32 and M36. Such a chapter is at least 5000 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossbonesx11 Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Thanks for all the support guys! I appreciate all the good feedback. I think I am leaning back towards being a succesor now. I am never at a loss for creativity but wanted it to be able to make sense. Explaining why a succesor has Contemptors sounds like more fun than explaining why these IHs are so different than all the other clans. As to why; ever since I came back to the hobby (shortly after C:SM 5th) I knew I wanted to build a MotF/6 Dread army, but ever since I started the hobby (shortly before the release of 3rd) I have always hated the look of the boxy dreads. Now with the release of the Contemptor I have the inspiration to build a 'Dread Council' army, does not hurt that the Contemptor is probably my fav current model. The model really inspired me and this army idea. I really feel like this is the project I was 'meant to do,' if that does not sound silly. Also just to let you guys know this is expected to be a purely modeling/showcase project. Since coming back I have probably only played two games and that was with my Orks. That being said, the army will be built as a legal army in case my group gets back into playing or if I choose to venture out in search of some games. I think my wife is going to get me a Contemptor and some marine bits for xmas, so I will probably be starting up a plog around January for this project. I would love to hear more of everyones ideas or post pics for inspiration. One more thing! What does everyone think of the bolt pistol in the pic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 One more thing! What does everyone think of the bolt pistol in the pic? It's a cheeky little number. I like it. Any explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 One more thing! What does everyone think of the bolt pistol in the pic? To paraphrase: "You got to ask yourself, did he shoot 50 shells, or 60? ... Do you feel lucky punk? Well, do ya?" It's a really nice conversion, but with that barrel, it needs a longer clip in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 One more thing! What does everyone think of the bolt pistol in the pic? It's a really nice conversion, but with that barrel, it needs a longer clip in my humble opinion. Possibaly 5 or 6 longer clips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 How about an ammo drum? :whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 How about an ammo drum? :down:How about one of those backpacks HB Devastators get? or at least a belt to the regular backpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCC Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 One more thing! What does everyone think of the bolt pistol in the pic? I'm no stranger to 'the rule of cool' but for me the BP is OTT and lacks a thematic link to the figure's bionics or the potential tech-bent nature of the Chapter. Simply put, it looks like a BP with the regular barrel chopped off and replaced with an AC barrel end. I think if you're going to do this you need to do more than a simple chop-swap and look at why he'd have or need a multi-barrel pistol instead of a mechanically simpler and more reliable automatic fire capable BP. So, what I'd consider is giving him something more like a multi-barrel flint-lock style pistol that counts as a plasma pistol or something along those lines. That way you can justify multi-barrel (it's special ammo that has to have an individual chamber and can't go in a clip because it's so dangerous or something along those lines) and by doing away with the regular BP look and making something unique you can play more to the steam-punk idea than the chop-swap look does. A double barreled flint lock pistol for inspiration There are some Warhammer, =][= and particularly some Mordheim minis that would give you a fantastic starting ground for a special pistol along these lines too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Not a pistol, but you may want to take a look at the Nock Gun. Here is a better picture than the one on wikipedia: http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/c/c4/NockVolleyGun.jpg Build something like this with shorter barrels and without a stock, and you should have a nice archaic pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCC Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Now that's the business! Most definitely build something like that! And then call your Marine Brother Harper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Don't forget Battle Brother/Captain/Chapter Master Sharpe and Inquisitor Hogan. ;) ...the Emperor calls and we obey, through the warp and far away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossbonesx11 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 So this is the idea I am developing: The 'Knights Mechanicus' or 'Knights of Mars' (suggestions?), a remnant force of Imperial Fists that stayed when Sigismund chose to evacuate Mars during the Heresy. A fleet based force, scouring Imperium in efforts to exterminate all Dark Mechanicus cults. Until recently, they made their hunt without being noticed by the Inquisiton and other brother Astartes. Shedding the their Fists heraldry and choosing not to replace it, they are now under investigation by the Inquisition in hopes to receive Chapter status and don a new heraldry. Being so closely affiliated with the Mechanicus they have been able to maintain ancient armors and battle relics, yet not able to replenish their losses they have turned to bionics to lengthen their eternal fight. Quickly done from my phone at work, so be gentle. EDIT :: playing around with painter on my phone. http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd401/Crossbonesx11/e1bdb3c4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hey, Alex here, like where this is going, how about you have it that some of your marines have better versions of power armour, or better cybernetic enhanstments, to represent stuff like feel no pain or some valuable relics to represent things like flammers or plasma guns? for instance a marine with a huron blackheart style flamer while holding a bolt pistol in his other hand? The colour scheme is nice! The only critisism I have is they would already have chapter status and heraldry because they were a founding chapter. If possible mabe you could change that to having to closer ties to the mechanicum and are under investigation due to new found knowledge of theirs ties to the dark mechanicum mabe? The reason I say this is that the Imperium of man has well documented records of every founding ever created bar one, where the information on them is bleak, this is either the 13th or 23rd founding I beleive? but yeah, the chapter is good and your fluff is a realy good start, is their chapter homeworld mars? if so then you could do some realy cool dusting paint effects on their bases and some realy cool converions to represent other weapons, skitarii chest cannons? mabe some servitor style marines (heavy weapons built into their shoulders?) I reacon since their relation to mars then mabe the mechanicum could have experimented on them slightly to improve them, and have had the suspition of the inquisition because of it and are kept under watchful eye? But dont listen to me this is your chapter and these are just thoughts NOT facts, so do what suits you best! I dont want to tell you what to do just help you and give you ideas, so please dont take this as an insult or controlling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm liking it too... After 'taking things into their own hands', this splinter group is given a chance. Normally they would be banished and/or sent on a hopeless crusade and forgotten. However, since their unsanctioned actions proved to be very successful, this time will be different. Now those who supported the subversive cause must prove themselves and redeem their tarnished past. If there new tasks prove fruitful, the chapter benefits. If they send the group to their doom, the Emperor's divine judgment has been served. For the paint, Black with Red is a classic scheme but I'd switch the shoulder pad up. Black with Red trim seems a better fit to the original Iron Hands. But that's just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossbonesx11 Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 I just want to say thanks again to everyone for the opinions and suggestion! I just ordered a Contemptor body, Contemptor Plasma Cannon, Contemptor Conversion Beamer and MotF Valthex of eBay; also, ordered Steam Knight heads, Gothic Backpacks and Steampunk weapons from Maxmini; and last but not least, a Finecast MotF w/Servitors from my LGS. Pair that with my tons of Iron Hands upgrade bits and come January I will be ready to get started! Plans are: Master of the Forge in Servo-Harness w/4 Servitors Master of the Forge w/Conversion Beamer Contemptor Dread w/2x Twin-Linked Autocannons Relic Contemptor Dread w/Plasma Cannon Relic Contemptor Dread w/Heavy Conversion Beamer Tac Squad w/Bionics Hoping to do up some test schemes within a few days. Is it acceptable for me to post them here or do I need to start a new thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossbonesx11 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Had the opportunity to do some test schemes, what do you think? Bare with the bad pics. http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd401/Crossbonesx11/1b0c4615.jpg http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd401/Crossbonesx11/aaae7d4a.jpg http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd401/Crossbonesx11/6fcc0192.jpg http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd401/Crossbonesx11/57042d16.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Hey, alex here, These are looking nice, what's the last set of legs from? is it the iron hands kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hey, alex here, These are looking nice, what's the last set of legs from? is it the iron hands kit? I believe they are, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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