Nightrunner Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hey all, I have been having some fun over the festive period with my SW and Otk forces against the new Necrons, but with my Deathwing finally constructed, I am ready to give them a run as I need to start getting some games in!!! However, I am a little concerned that Pure DW and Doublewing armies will really struggle against some of the horrors of a Necron list - namely units such as Scarabs and Wraiths w/attached destroyer lord of doom who ignores saves of all kinds!!! Made worse, in my mind at least, is that pure terminator armies bring quality of firepower but not quantity, where this might be needed. Has anyone else had to try out some new tactics or brought units in from the cold to help deal with Necrons, or is the old adage "If you can't hit it, shoot it" our only way to go? Thanks all! NR :nuke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 ummm..... TH/SS termies have a good chance of killing scarabs, as every hit is instant death (so 3 wounds for resolution), and frag templates are 2 wounds per failed save. Wraiths could hurt, but there are no weapons in the new necon codex that ignore all saves (except some strength test shooting attacks.). Depending on the necron list if you can get close and assault you will win. If the list is AV 13 heavy, or fast skimmer heavy DW might struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think we stand a great chance to beat the new Crons. Termies seem the best and most efficient way to deal with them, and ours are the best. I know in my games that TH/SS equipped squads roll through Necrons. They remain a heavily shooty army, but with a 4+ save on their warriors, it makes LandRaiders more effective against them. I think the thing that will hurt the most is the number of shots they put out. Keep moving and deepstriking is the key I think and watch out for Mind shackle scarabs, those things are annoying as heck. They give the Necron player a chance to take control of your model, say Belial...and then use his attacks on either himself or your squad... Just my current observations. Not fought Wraiths yet....so cant comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I have the book myself, since I was planning on building a Xenos army to break up all the power armor I have sitting around, and I can tell you there are some nasty tricks in there. Their crypteks, which are basically an upgrade to a unit, can use a limited number of solar flares, which cause night fighting rules for a turn. Scarab swarms can rip into a Land Raider or Dreadnought and tear it to shreds by decreasing it's AV, I saw one swarm reduce a LRC from 14 to 8 in one turn, then reduce it to almost nothing the next turn and wreck it with their strength 3 attacks. The Necron Ghost Ark transport is open topped, which means their full compliment of 10 warriors can pull up alongside our small units and rapid fire them into oblivion. The more wounds they cause, the more chances we have to fail them. I didn't mean to ramble, but there are so many new things in this codex compared to the old one that it's hard not to feel overwhelmed. I haven't even played a game yet, but after a friend of mine read my codex he has already refused to play against me with them. If I can get a few games in with them soon I'll be able to offer some tips for using Deathwing against them. Right off the bat, I can tell you that a few chainfists might be necessary against necrons, some of their vehicles count as being +2 to their AV until they take a penetrating hit. Make sure to ask your opponent to read his codex if you have any questions, because there are a lot of new rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Cryptek upgraded to Harbinger of Despair, with a Veil of Darkness is tonnes of fun… :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Right off the bat, I can tell you that a few chainfists might be necessary against necrons, some of their vehicles count as being +2 to their AV until they take a penetrating hit. Make sure to ask your opponent to read his codex if you have any questions, because there are a lot of new rules. I don't have the book but when this came up on a tyranid forum someone pointed out the bonus is only to front and side armour. As close combat attacks hit the rear armour (10?) it doesn't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 That is correct all the vehicles (except the monolith) are rear AV 11. The bigger issue would be dealing with fast vehicles if your opponent brings any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I've had a couple of games against them so far, and concentrated melee has worked for me. Hit them hard and make them break and run so there is no Reanimation Protocol. That said in the last game I played I faced a horrible combination of Wraiths (making me go last), elite guard unit (with +2 str power weapons) and a special character who gave the elit guard unit furious charge. A low number of attacks from them but each was a S8 power weapon striking before me... that put a lot of hurt on. In previous games I'd managed to keep breaking the Crons on a charge and keep a localised balance of force in my favour. As soon as I bogged down and the Cron player got to dictate the terms of the battle and could pull off this horrible combo, game over. So best advise from me, over-estimate the ammount of melee attacks you need to break them, use the lower model count of Deathwing to concentrate your force in a localised area, don't under-estimate their melee abilities if they can pull combos off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I've had a couple of games against them so far, and concentrated melee has worked for me. Hit them hard and make them break and run so there is no Reanimation Protocol. That said in the last game I played I faced a horrible combination of Wraiths (making me go last), elite guard unit (with +2 str power weapons) and a special character who gave the elit guard unit furious charge. A low number of attacks from them but each was a S8 power weapon striking before me... that put a lot of hurt on. In previous games I'd managed to keep breaking the Crons on a charge and keep a localised balance of force in my favour. As soon as I bogged down and the Cron player got to dictate the terms of the battle and could pull off this horrible combo, game over. So best advise from me, over-estimate the ammount of melee attacks you need to break them, use the lower model count of Deathwing to concentrate your force in a localised area, don't under-estimate their melee abilities if they can pull combos off. Are you sure the enemy didnt knew of your list beforehand?Melee crons is not something one encounters regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It is in the new Codex when you have the awesome Lychguard with Hyperphase Swords and Dispersion Shields :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It is in the new Codex when you have the awesome Lychguard with Hyperphase Swords and Dispersion Shields :D. And what does that mean?Because they exist are they an auto include? As far as i know most nec players dont use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I don’t know how you meant that, but your post comes across as rather… confrontational. No idea why my post would rile you up. All I meant was that yes, close combat mêlée is the bane of Necrons, but the Lychguard as actually a good CC unit in the new Codex. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 My local gaming group frowns on taking a specific build for each opponent, rather we play take-all-comers lists and tweak to reflect whatever changes are happening in the local meta. So my Necron opponent knew my Deathwing list and Blood Angels DOA list pretty well before he played his first game with the Necrons. That may have led him to include the Lychguard as he knew I like in your face melee forces that could really be damaged by them. However, he also know that same list needs to cope with my Green-Tide/Kan Ork list where low attack S8 power weapons are meaningless against large mobs, my Tau list which doesn't really care what melee you bring (if you reach melee I'm toast!)... Of course the meta in each area is different and as an isolated gaming group ours is bound to be different to many on the Internet. However, I found the combination of S8 power weapons (S5, +2 from the weapon and +1 from furious charge) with the ability to make me I1 quite a scary proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don’t know how you meant that, but your post comes across as rather… confrontational. No idea why my post would rile you up. All I meant was that yes, close combat mêlée is the bane of Necrons, but the Lychguard as actually a good CC unit in the new Codex. *shrug* Sorry friend didnt want to pass it as such :huh: .The written word sometimes doesnt convey things right. I was a bit rushed.Sorry again. I dont agree though,they are a good counter melee unit,but it dont believe you could/should create a list based and/or filled with them.It will have tons of other things to struggle against.Unless OFC you tailor list but thats another matter. Louis:By the same token you could have (for the shake of the argument), change those terminators to lightning claws and strike at IN value and more attacks,thereby eliminating those advantages the necs have. Hints like those make believe that when the new rules (6th) hit,well be forced to revert to LCs and shelve our TH/SS terminators.After all they have to sell more boxes right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I tend to run a mix of LC and Hammers in my Deathwing rather than a single load out. But the LCs were going last as the Cron player used a wraith upgrade to make sure all models in base to base strike at Init1. So I'm faced with S8 power weapons that strike first... Given the 3++ saves on the hammer wielding models I'm still in with a chance, but it's not the walkover you think Crons are going to be. If you get arrogant (which I did) and assume you can just run over necrons in melee then don't be surprised if your opponent pulls something like this combo (lychguard, bonus furious charge USR, and wraiths making you strike at Init 1) and flattens you in melee. Will I fall for it again? I'll make sure I get the LC and hammer models in the right place to minimise impact of the wraiths, and make sure I'm in closer mutual support so if I do get hit like this then my follow up units can pile in and wipe out the lychguard switching the game back to my superior melee versus the Crons shooting. Call it my bad play if you want, but hope it serves as a warning to the rest of my Unforgiven brothers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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