Interrogator Stobz Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 ...DA do not equal Plasma. ... hehehe, it might sooner than we think ;) Evolution is cruel and GW are unpredictable. I just love the shape, design and overall idea of the plasma weapons (esp. Cannons) so I'm happy with more OPTIONS to take Plas, it can't do us any harm. I'll still be taking plenty of other guns too, but every time I roll dice to shoot a PC I get a childish and gleeful grin of anticipation of some random killy outcome(overheat/hit and kill/scatter and scare). s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 ...DA do not equal Plasma. ... hehehe, it might sooner than we think :) Evolution is cruel and GW are unpredictable. I just love the shape, design and overall idea of the plasma weapons (esp. Cannons) so I'm happy with more OPTIONS to take Plas, it can't do us any harm. I'll still be taking plenty of other guns too, but every time I roll dice to shoot a PC I get a childish and gleeful grin of anticipation of some random killy outcome(overheat/hit and kill/scatter and scare). s agreed, if we are the 'shooty' chapter then we may get more plasma. GW is a very effective at changing fluff as we all know :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy 0f Spades Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It is my dream that one day all Combat Squads will be able carry Str 7, AP 2, Gets Hot! Template weapons! If I am elected into the Inner Circle know that I will fight for your right to embrace plasma as a Dark Angel's way of life! Vote for me, Mercy 0f Spades, and I will silence the anti-plasma rhetoric that these agents of the Fallen are trying to introduce into our society! This prejudice against plasma must be stopped so that one day our neophytes and our neophytes' neophytes can risk melting their face off for the ability to wield superior firepower! VOTE MERCY 0F SPADES! the plasma choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 agreed, if we are the 'shooty' chapter then we may get more plasma. And yet another myth started by Jervis' sad v2 3E DA Codex patch job and still perpetuated by some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 v2 3E DA codex Patch Job was written iirc by an official GW source, therefore is official not myth. Every rendition of our dex has changed things, it's the way of GW. +1vote for MoS as Inner Circle rep. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy 0f Spades Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 agreed, if we are the 'shooty' chapter then we may get more plasma. And yet another myth started by Jervis' sad v2 3E DA Codex patch job and still perpetuated by some... You know, years ago, if it wasn't for me reading about the Dark Angels preference to use Plasma weapons I would have gone White Scars. Think about the good that this nod has done the chapter. Most Space Marine players really don't like Plasma weapons for tactical reasons so they shun them. No other chapter has a Plasma "profile" associated to it. Why not claim it? I can think of a ton of reasons for the DA to embrace it. That... and Jet Bikes... oh please, whoever is writing our codex, let the Dark Angels find the STC for Space Marine Jet Bikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Jet Bikes would be epicly awesome. Plus, I love Plasma. Its so diverse tactically, packs firepower to kill heavy infantry, is mobile enough to fire on the move, its cannon variant lands small dishes of white-blue goodness on the enemy and it packs firepower enough to hurt light armour. When fired into cramped spaces it hurts a lot. And if some of the new 6th edition about multiple blast weapon rumours are true.... Well, give me the plasma LOVE! It will be awesome :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 We are the first legion because are primarch was gene bred first. All 20 legion,s where created at about the same time so the other legions have just as much claim to ancient war gear as the Dark Angel,s do. Heck the sallies and the Iron Hand,s could very well still build these weapons according to background fluff. So pleas pleas pleas pleas if your going to give the DA plasma give them a decent reason why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 we hoard it and never share :rolleyes: A plasma STC could be one way, for example. However I dont think there should be lots of plasma, but a Predator Executioner would be a nice unique tank for us to have. Theres lots of fluffy reasons, could be that the Lion saw the use of executioners on a Leman Russ and ordered that a predator variety was created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 v2 3E DA codex Patch Job was written iirc by an official GW source, therefore is official not myth. ;) How about before you go accusing me of calling the v2 3E 'dex a myth, you try reading what I actually wrote? I really don't think thats too much to ask. If you'd stopped to read my post properly you'd have got that I was referring to the DA being the 'shooty' Chapter as being a myth. Also, I'm quite aware who's responsible for the v2 3E 'dex (the fact that I referred to it as Jervis' patch job in my post makes that quite clear). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It may be a myth now, but it can always come true thanks to GW... Not saying I wish this...I'd rather be tactical and stubborn than Shooty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It may be a myth now, but it can always come true thanks to GW... Only if GW want to completely miss the target and turn the (tactically astute allrounder) Dark Angels into stand and shoot gunliners who try to avoid close combat whenever possible (antithetical to their purpose/design, given that (fluffwise) close combat and close range is where Marines are designed to excel and, in particular, the swordsman heritage the DA would have inherited from the Order). Not saying I wish this...I'd rather be tactical and stubborn than Shooty. As would any true DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 If I remember correctly in 2nd and 3rd edition plasma was 5 points and melta was 15 . In that instance plasma was everywhere and melta was limited. In 5th edition the points got switched. Now melta is everywhere and plasma is limited. I for one wouldn't mind to see it return to the past. I would also love to see our proposed firestorm plasma blaster make an appearance. (2 twin-linked plasma guns). Put it as a sponson on a land raider or maybe on a new Int-Chap Dreadnought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm excited for any rumor involving the Dark Angels, but I'm holding back my excitement until we get some more concrete news. Having groups of chaplains running around sounds too much like wishful thinking, and it reeks of being copied from the Blood Angels and Necron codices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy 0f Spades Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 v2 3E DA codex Patch Job was written iirc by an official GW source, therefore is official not myth. ;) How about before you go accusing me of calling the v2 3E 'dex a myth, you try reading what I actually wrote? I really don't think thats too much to ask. If you'd stopped to read my post properly you'd have got that I was referring to the DA being the 'shooty' Chapter as being a myth. Also, I'm quite aware who's responsible for the v2 3E 'dex (the fact that I referred to it as Jervis' patch job in my post makes that quite clear). Wait wait wait... who on Earth said the Dark Angels are a "shooty" chapter? Sounds like Necron Sorcery to me! Such a man shall face the interrogator-chaplians!! But seriously... a shooty chapter? I'm with MadDoc on this one. That's just dumb. Did they even know that Deathwing existed when they made that rumor up? If anything, we're the most balanced of the chapters. 3 wings working together to overcome the adversary! Now that's Dark Angels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't want a shooty gunline army, boring and IGish. Having plenty of plasma options doesn't make us exclusively shooty, it gives us OPTIONS to choose plasma weapons for our shooty elements. I hope we get more options for plasma than are currently available. I often play gainst chaos and like to think I'm hunting the Fallen, plasma is a great tool vs MEQ and TEQ so I take it when I can. If people believed that we were once shooty as a result of one of our dexes, then rightly or wrongly that is what they believe. That may have been relected in how they played us. No accusations nor interweb rage required nor given. There appears to be plenty of support for the latest rumour of us getting moar plasma, I think GW will give the younger/newer players something to relish in that regard. They know us older players have plenty of toys and might not spend as much $$ on new ones (I'll prolly be spending a truck load ;)). s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The shooty monicker was something that was attributed to us in 3rd edition. That was based on the DA rules at the time and the play style that it was typical of DA at that time. The intractable rule that we had at the time made us roll for every unit we had, every turn. If you rolled a 1 then your unit refused to move and became stubborn. This made assault very unreliable for DA. Thus the gun line was a way of working around it. Who cares if a gun line won't move. You were not going to move them anyways. However if your unit of LC deathwing rolled a 1, you just lost a very expensive unit. Thus The typical DA army you'd see at the local hobby shop tended to favor the gun line......thus we got the "shootie chapter" monicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Wait wait wait... who on Earth said the Dark Angels are a "shooty" chapter? Sounds like Necron Sorcery to me! Such a man shall face the interrogator-chaplians!! Brother-Sergeant Bohemond in the post quoted below... agreed, if we are the 'shooty' chapter then we may get more plasma. But seriously... a shooty chapter? I'm with MadDoc on this one. That's just dumb. Did they even know that Deathwing existed when they made that rumor up? If anything, we're the most balanced of the chapters. 3 wings working together to overcome the adversary! Now that's Dark Angels! Precisely. Tactically astute allrounders, thats what the DA are and thats what should be emphasized, not some imagined preference for shooting (nor some ungodly plasma fetish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yup, thanks Brother D. I think in a decade or so many players will remember the Vampires as fast mech/razor spam and Wolves as gunline Long Fang type armies. Those styles of play are not dictated by fluff but by special rules and points costs. Nevertheless it effects how the Chapters are percieved in the long run and the official rules you mentioned Brother D did effect us. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yup, thanks Brother D. I think in a decade or so many players will remember the Vampires as fast mech/razor spam and Wolves as gunline Long Fang type armies. Those styles of play are not dictated by fluff but by special rules and points costs. Nevertheless it effects how the Chapters are percieved in the long run and the official rules you mentioned Brother D did effect us. s No problem. It's up to us old guys, who were around when these monickers were placed on us, to anchor them into how things came about. It certainly was not an imagined preference. It's how the army was played at that time. There is nothing to say that a new codex might se an emergence of a new play style. Or it might return us to an old play style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yup, thanks Brother D. I think in a decade or so many players will remember the Vampires as fast mech/razor spam and Wolves as gunline Long Fang type armies. Those styles of play are not dictated by fluff but by special rules and points costs. Nevertheless it effects how the Chapters are percieved in the long run and the official rules you mentioned Brother D did effect us. s Too Bad perception IS reality, especially on something imaginary and made up... Because we all Know that MD is the official and only source of what the DA are and are supposed to be. I mean, didn't he design and create them for GW... Oh wait, that was JJ (at least a few times, dont have my AoD codex to check the names) ... But then JJ must have been wrong for not listening ... BTW Black Library stories and such have gone against the actually game rules and fluff so many times... (called literary license) and as such are not reall official sources of what XXX is in the game. There is a perception that DA are shooty, why?, well it was enforced by the stand and shoot rule... By the only chapter with a full shooty Dreadnought, that mortis thing... By the sacred standards that 2/3 of them dealt with making shooting more effective... The perception that DA are plasma...why? well we used to be the only ones with PC in our tacticals...its been said that we have more ancient wargear.. and plasma has been described as ancient wargear, in that modern (ie 40k) weaponsmiths cannot perfect its production and thats why it overheats... BA became even more space vampires... SW became even more Space werewolves... Perhaps, DA will become space Frankensteins, who knows... But to say that the official codexs are "Wrong" is egotistical at best... they may be badly written rules-wise but they ARE what the game intends for that chapter as officially written by GW. it is there game, and their chapter, no matter what anyone else thinks. Do we always like their direction, heck no. But we have to live with it, or write our own game/codex and hope someone will let us play with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm not the only source, but I can't help that I'm a far sight better versed in the actual sources than some who I could name, but I don't intend to lower myself to that level... Also, I've asked you this before BL and I'd prefer not to have to ask again, but could you please refrain from putting words in my mouth and/or misrepresenting what I've actually said. Thank you. I never once said the codexes are wrong. Why would I? The official codexes have always displayed the DA as being allrounders, even the 3E Codex that supposedly makes them 'shooty' never once even so much as hints at them being shooty (the play style some people adopted as a result of the lame Intractable rule is a product of their choice not any background stating the DA are shooty). Only one of the three Codexes the DA have had has included any stand and shoot style rules (3E with Intractable, which was such a brilliant rule it resulted in a v2 Codex being needed to fix it (note I said fix and not nerf)). In that same Codex those 2 Standards that favour shooting are alongside 6 other pieces of wargear that are close combat centred (of the 9 total pieces of DA specific wargear presented, including the other Standard) and a squad level Special Character that has rules that favour short range and close combat. Even within the frame of reference of the 3E list that doesn't say 'shooty' to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Shot across the bow: Any more bickering and appropriate measures will be taken. Keep this thread and discussion in it clean and on-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Honestly I kind of want there to be a shakeup in Dark Angels background, something to give them a bit more uniqueness in the current fluff. Being tactically diverse all-rounders is just what the vanilla codex is for. So while we should look back to what came before us in 1996 and earlier when our fluff was first set in stone, being too attached to how things used to be will just end up giving us exactly what we have gotten for the last 16 years. Another re-print of C: AoD with most of its character drained away by other codices. On that note I used to be one of the guys who railed against Dark Angel plasma-love (even though I myself like plasma weapons) back in the day. But you know what, it can easily be tied to past fluff of us being (before the Lion was re-discovered) the Emperor's personal guard during the Great Crusade. So we were given access to more funky prototype and advanced weaponry back in the day. This translates to us having more archeotech 10,000 years later. Plasma weapons are fluffed up as being rare and ancient weapons, so they fit the mold. That said, other things can fit in there. TDA, coversion beamers, various old-school defense fields, jetbikes, etc. So in that respect an all-plasma Predator seems like a good fit for us. A medium tank loaded down with weaponry from ancient times and fully capable of ripping a bloody swathe through heavy infantry. So instead of being brought up as a new variant like the Baal Predator it could get the background of being a rare variant from the Great Crusade that fell out of favour with other Chapters who found it so hard to maintain. But the Dark Angels, with their industrial-base largely separate from the Imperium at large (from JJ, used as original justification for why our equipment was different, but easy to co-opt for this purpose :cuss ) and with them have the secrets to so much ancient technology (perhaps they have the ability to reproduce TDA themselves, wouldn't that be an awesome factoid to add in?) they can actually still create the ancient beast. As for the potential for Chaplain units (or even squad attachments), that is the kind of fluff expansion I like seeing. It takes a few old bits (and new bits) of Dark Angels fluff and runs with them. The position of Chaplain has always been an interesting one in the Dark Angels with them being a very active part of our dark secret. It would be interesting if junior Chaplains were attached at the squad level to screen brothers for potential elevation. It would also help get across how different our upper echelons are structured than Codex Astartes marines. Sure it isn't fluff that existed before but since when has that been a requirement since 3rd Edition hit? It would create an interesting little continuum of squad-based Chaplains watching their battle brothers, while in turn being watched by the Company Chaplain who is being groomed by an Interrogator-Chaplain who works under the watchful eye of the Grand Master of the Reclusium. The Dark Angels have always been big on wheels within wheels and this is a great way of showing it. And honestly it is far more nuanced and subtle then guys riding wolves in to battle so it isn't like they are clubbing it in to place. That said, these are also pretty tenuous rumours at this point so I've had a few salt licks already to defend against the potential veracity of them. But if these are both indicative of changes we may see then I am pleased that we will be seeing some actual changes and expansion in Dark Angels fluff rather than the usual minor shuffling and adherence to the original AoD codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Funny how 'shots across the bow' send everyone running :P Sorry to all if I offended. I am liking the possibility of taking Belial and a Libby as HQ and a chappie as an Elite for an all DW army. I hope the points in a new dex allow, and that in 6th they allow Raiders lists to be less of a one shot wonder/melta magnet too.I do like Mech B). I think my posn on Plasma is well done and dusted :cuss so I'll leave it at that. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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