Brother_Darius Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 But you know what, it can easily be tied to past fluff of us being (before the Lion was re-discovered) the Emperor's personal guard during the Great Crusade. It can even be pre Great Crusade purely because we appeared to be the Emperors bodyguard. It doesn't take much of a stretch to imagine that being the case and I'm presuming the bodyguard reason is why we've also got enough TDA to kit out the Deathwing 100% all of the time. I know it was developed during the Great Crusade but it's never specified when and I don't see anyone complaining about that particular "ancient tech" at all with full DW armies! I've heard this put out there on several occasions, I'd I fear that this might be even more of a "myth" than the "shooty" monicker. I've heard many say that we were the personal guard of the Emperor. I am not aware of any actual fluff reference that states this. Can anyone find this for me as I would really be interested in seeing it. IIRC there are only really two reference that people use for this. 1) The Emperor had the DA chapter with him when he came to Caliban to greet the Lion. - problem with that is that the emperor did this 19 other times as well. So that is not much of an indication 2) Our name is listed first in the order of the chapters. - That doesn't neccesarily mean that we were "the bodyguard". There is also no reference that I know of that indicates how much time there was between the developmet of chapters. Was it days or decades? When twins are born, one if invaribly "first" but that doesn't really make either one older or more distinguished than any other. I'm just really curious because people site it so often as "fluff" that we were the personal bodyguard, but I can't find it anywhere. Hmm, I'm sure I've read it elsewhere but the best I have found so far is the excerpt from the Feast of Malediction entry. The more I think about it the more this may be an old RT-era holdover or something spawned by the internet. So far the best indicator of it is in the 4th Edition codex where it refers to us as the Emperor's right hand but that can easily be taken a few different ways and may only be from our perspective. I guess until I can find the original source I wont be trotting that horse out again. It will certainly bug me for a while as to the original source of that though. Oh well. My fear is that was more a case of someone on a thread taking a leap of faith that others adopted. It then got repeated soooo often that people just accepted it. If the fluff for it could actually be founf I'd really be interested Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 We are the first legion because are primarch was gene bred first. All 20 legion,s where created at about the same time so the other legions have just as much claim to ancient war gear as the Dark Angel,s do. Heck the sallies and the Iron Hand,s could very well still build these weapons according to background fluff. So pleas pleas pleas pleas if your going to give the DA plasma give them a decent reason why. "About the same time"... yes - we can assume this at least. But the Legion was first nonetheless - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=247472 As we learn from the Feast of Malediction entry found in the link above. Also, things to consider, how long does it take the Emperor to create a legion? How much time between the 1st and 2nd and so on? What was the 1st Legion doing during this time? Remember, Space Marines were not created from birth like the Primarchs, the Emperor had to find aspirants from Terra and not only train them (which takes years), but train them to train subsequent marines (in that time he was also having Mars pump out amazing amounts of space craft to carry them). What if the 1st Legion helped train the other fledgling Legions? I do however agree with you, no matter who was created first, it's sensible that they were all outfitted as best as possible. I am sure The Lion wasn't Gene bred first. I though that too, but was corrected he was like 5th or later found. Never herd or read about him being created or born or bred first. Dark Angles was the first founding chapter. I believe (forget now) that the Emperoros Body guard was turned into the Space Marines and The Lion was the first to ever command or Lead such an army. Later other Legions were formed. How long after, no so sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 A) I am sure The Lion wasn't Gene bred first. I though that too, but was corrected he was like 5th or later found. Never herd or read about him being created or born or bred first. B.) The Emperoros Body guard was turned into the Space Marines and The Lion was the first to ever command or Lead such an army. Later other Legions were formed. How long after, no so sure. i'm afraid that those two statements are not really capatible. If the Lion was only the 5th or later Primarche to be found, what did the other ones do? The Great Crusade was started without the Primarches. When each Primarche was found his chapter was turned over to him. So the Lion could not have been the first to command a legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The Dark Angels are my first and favorite 40k love and these rumors sound very interesting to me. But, frankly, it doesn't really matter to me what they do or don't get. The only real change I want is an official color scheme change on the red bolter casings! Then I will truly be happy. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 A) I am sure The Lion wasn't Gene bred first. I though that too, but was corrected he was like 5th or later found. Never herd or read about him being created or born or bred first. B.) The Emperoros Body guard was turned into the Space Marines and The Lion was the first to ever command or Lead such an army. Later other Legions were formed. How long after, no so sure. i'm afraid that those two statements are not really capatible. If the Lion was only the 5th or later Primarche to be found, what did the other ones do? The Great Crusade was started without the Primarches. When each Primarche was found his chapter was turned over to him. So the Lion could not have been the first to command a legion. Yea, I think you are a little off HsojVvad. Things we do know (which some might consider spoilers, so turn back now if that is your worry): 1) The Pods that held each infant Primarch were numbered - though the Lion's number may never have been mentioned specifically as #1, Heresey novels note that these pod numbers correspond with the Legion's number. However, we can't say for sure if any of them were technically "born" first - he certainly could have worked on them all simultaneously 2) The Primarchs were whisked away by Chaos 3) The Emperor in turn created 20 Legions from the gene seed of those Primarchs 4) Dark Angels Legion is noted as being created first, so here we can actually assume he went in order of the numbered Primarchs (perhaps working on some simultaneously?) 5) The Great Crusade started without any Primarchs - the Emperor leading the Legions and discovering them one by one - Horus being discovered first 6) The Lion was not discovered until roughly 100 years into the Crusade (As one of the novels state - he was found halfway through it yet still had almost as many victories as Horus by the end) ------------------------------- Could the First Legion had served as body Guards? It's probable that being created first they were given such an honorific title for a time (but it does not seem like there is a concrete source). When did the Emperor create the Custodians, his actual body guards? Even the Feast of Malediction entry only mentions the DA as his "right hand". Which leads me back to the question, how long did it take the Emperor to make the Legions? Could the First Legion had been created to help train subsequent Legions? Or did the Emperor make a score of "first born" (for lack of a better word) for each Legion and allowed them to help train their comrades. Either way, being the first created, as the DA are noted, means something. Some questions we just can't answer yet. Aaaand, we are also getting off topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddles Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Dear GW, Can I have for my nice shiny new book: - Deathwing and ravenwing as troops without the need for special characters (or at least unlocked by taking a character on a bike/in TDA) - Librarians with powers worth a damn and Leadership 10. I don't mind losing the extra attack we seem to have kept from 3rd. - MORTIS PATTERN DREADNOUGHTS. They were ours and everyone else stole them. Don't give a damn about stormbricks, just give me my boombox dread. - Azmodai, Brother Bethor, Sargeant Naaman. - Tactical squads that don't forget combi-meltas at the armoury, nor are less numerous than their blue brethren. - A command squad worth a damn for ravenwing - turbo boost in our scout move - deep striking land speeders. Not sure why the older models don't have the atmo breaking jet engines, but we have the technology. - THUNDERLION CAVALRY that is all... in all seriousness, i'm not getting too involved with the wishlisting. I will only be disappointed when the book actually does come out in 2013. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhr Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I see many people on different occasion express their wishes to see Sgt. Naaman back into our Codex; unfortunately it is not possible because he is dead. And please GW if you are reading this; ignore the wish from the post above regarding "Thunderlions" or any other Lion/Giant Feline/Cavalry/Mega-Ward Ridiculous Unit for next Dark Angels/Unforgiven Codex; that is my wish above all (I can bear with our current crippled Codex forever if faced with Unforgiven becoming some Anime/Manga darkness feathered warp winged angels with death gaze and man-slap the Avatar/Gork/Mork/Ruinous Power/Norn Queen/Dragon/Galaxy 3/day, new flavour of the month army for asocial kids with rich parents). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As is Captain Tycho - being dead is no reason not to be included :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhr Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As is Captain Tycho - being dead is no reason not to be included :D Another reason why I loath the idea of our next Codex being "in-line" with Blood Angels one... Besides, they can easily create new Scout special character, like someone that served with Sgt. Naaman, and later make a novel about him, to expand his background. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As is Captain Tycho - being dead is no reason not to be included :sweat: Another reason why I loath the idea of our next Codex being "in-line" with Blood Angels one... Besides, they can easily create new Scout special character, like someone that served with Sgt. Naaman, and later make a novel about him, to expand his background. Heck, they don't even need to expand on him outside the codex. Just make a character just like Naaman and call him something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I see many people on different occasion express their wishes to see Sgt. Naaman back into our Codex; unfortunately it is not possible because he is dead. *cough* Sergeant Naaman was dead before he ever appeared in a codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 This argument of dead or alive special characters has been brought up before. I think GW stance is that a character that is dead in the current timeline can still make it to the Codex. Frankly I'm OK with it. To me the main function of a special character is to examine in more detail a particular aspect of the Chapter. What sort of individuals make the elite of a given faction? What does this say for the faction in question? Given that the Chapters' span through the millenia, I bet there must have been other interesting personalities that thrived in the 38th of 34th millenium say. I would very much like to know about them. Besides, ruleswise, you can always take the rules of a Special Character and re-name him to match your liking. Naaman's rules might fit your Vetreran Scout Sergeant who happens to be called, I dunno, Belisarius! :( Therefore everybody is a winner and we get a better feeling of the Chapter! After all the DAs must have had heroes of renown between the Heresy and 40k! just my 2c Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The only real change I want is an official color scheme change on the red bolter casings! Then I will truly be happy. <_< Mine are officially painted black.... It amuses me to no end that, as we head into 6th edition, people insist that DA plasmarifficity is invalid because it's only existed since 3rd edition...I forsee that continuing forever... "I want the 34th edition 'Dex to go back to the 2nd edition status of DA not having any special affinity for the use of plasma weaponry" :) Anyway, I don't see how the plasma theme could be refreshed in infantry (not especially excited about plasma tanks), short of maybe a "gets hot" reroll? Combi-plasma for sergeants doesn't really do it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The only real change I want is an official color scheme change on the red bolter casings! Then I will truly be happy. <_< Mine are officially painted black.... It amuses me to no end that, as we head into 6th edition, people insist that DA plasmarifficity is invalid because it's only existed since 3rd edition...I forsee that continuing forever... "I want the 34th edition 'Dex to go back to the 2nd edition status of DA not having any special affinity for the use of plasma weaponry" :) Anyway, I don't see how the plasma theme could be refreshed in infantry (not especially excited about plasma tanks), short of maybe a "gets hot" reroll? Combi-plasma for sergeants doesn't really do it... Same.... Me too, so funny. I want Plasma cannon Landspeeders and Attack Bikes, highly mobile shooty bang, non fast vehicles are too restricted in their shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Indeed, I actually agree with that stance. I started my DA in 1996 with the release of the Angels of Death codex, it lasted all of three years. Our 3rd Edition codex was with us from 1999 to 2007. Sure, our fluff section has basically been excerpts from AoD for the life of our faction but things like Deathwing mixing weapons and us having options for all-biker and all-terminator armies have a longer precedence than things like all-speeder armies from 2nd Edition. The plasma thing has been at least part of the tapestry of Dark Angels things for 13 years so arguing like it is a new addition that has no place in the next codex is at least a little amusing to me. And yes I used to argue against it back in the day as well until I realized that my favourite edition of the codex to date lasted three years out of sixteen. So if I see bike-mounted plasma cannons and plasma blasters popping up in our codex then I wont complain because new toys are fun (and to be honest I liked plasma weaponry back when I started collecting before the DA codex even pegged on making that the special weapon d'jour). That said... [grognard]Ye can take my red bolter casings when you pry 'em from my cold dead hands![/grognard] ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 The only real change I want is an official color scheme change on the red bolter casings! Then I will truly be happy. ;) Mine are officially painted black.... It amuses me to no end that, as we head into 6th edition, people insist that DA plasmarifficity is invalid because it's only existed since 3rd edition...I forsee that continuing forever... "I want the 34th edition 'Dex to go back to the 2nd edition status of DA not having any special affinity for the use of plasma weaponry" :) Anyway, I don't see how the plasma theme could be refreshed in infantry (not especially excited about plasma tanks), short of maybe a "gets hot" reroll? Combi-plasma for sergeants doesn't really do it... I have mine painted Black with Boltgun and Burnt Aluminum drybrush effect to make them look more realistic. The bright red bolters look like play toys... For plasma: I would love to see the return of True/Ancient Combi Weapons. May fire either barrel as normal each turn May fire both barrels with -1 to hit. Plasma Blasters - Assault 2 plasma guns for Veterans and Independant Characters Plasma Cannon for Deathwing Plasma Cannon for Attack Bikes Plasma Cannon for Landspeeders Plasma Blaster for pintle on Landspeeders Executioner Plasma Cannon as Main Turret on Predators Plasma Cannon Sponsons on Predators Twin Linked Plasma Cannon Sponson on Landraiders Forward Mounted Twin Linked Plasma Cannon on Land Raider Firestorm Plasma Blasters on Landraider Crusaders. Forward Mounted Twin Linked Plasma Cannon on Land Raider Crusader DA only Landraider with Executioner Plasma Cannon forward Mounted, twin linked plasma Cannons on Sponsons, and Single Plasma Cannon on Sponsons (mimicking the Landraider Terminus Ultra) Pintle Mounted Plasma Guns on all Tanks, Rhino, Razorback, Whirlwind, Land Raider Variants Razorback Turret with Twin Linked Plasma Cannon Underslung Plasma Guns on Dreadnought CCW's Firestorm Plasma Blaster Arm Option for Dreads, Mortis Dreads, Chaplain Dreads Twin Linked Plasma Cannon option for Mortis Dreads Jetbikes with twin linked plasma Guns, instead of Bolters Attack Jetbike with Plasma Cannon ... hmm thats about it... Oh... almost forgot... Cyclone Missile Launcher with Plasma Warheads Whirlwind Missile Launcher with Plasma Warheads Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 SENSATIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm thinking some peeps will think you have a fetish, those same peeps may not like as much plasma and also may not want to be "defined" as a plasma chapter. WHO CARES, we're all different ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Underslung Plasma Guns on Dreadnought CCW's This. Which is why my lovely Contemptor has the claw CCW arm with a plasma blaster poking out the middle ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 6) The Lion was not discovered until roughly 100 years into the Crusade (As one of the novels state - he was found halfway through it yet still had almost as many victories as Horus by the end) One hundred and FIFTY years into the Great Crusade, right? At least that's what I got out of "Descent of Angels" and "Fallen Angels". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2998928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddles Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I see many people on different occasion express their wishes to see Sgt. Naaman back into our Codex; unfortunately it is not possible because he is dead. And please GW if you are reading this; ignore the wish from the post above regarding "Thunderlions" or any other Lion/Giant Feline/Cavalry/Mega-Ward Ridiculous Unit for next Dark Angels/Unforgiven Codex; that is my wish above all (I can bear with our current crippled Codex forever if faced with Unforgiven becoming some Anime/Manga darkness feathered warp winged angels with death gaze and man-slap the Avatar/Gork/Mork/Ruinous Power/Norn Queen/Dragon/Galaxy 3/day, new flavour of the month army for asocial kids with rich parents). a.) GW design don't pay attention to many internet boards. Once upon a time, Warseer was involved with GW FAQs, but that's about it. b.) evidently the caps lock did not convey my sarcasm. All my other suggestions were genuine. I in no way want thunderlion/giant feline/cavalry in my codex. If it's there, I shall merely cross it out. However, a Mega-Ward ridiculous unit like hmmm.....paladins....would not be unattractive to me. as long as the models rock. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2999292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 [ a.) GW design don't pay attention to many internet boards. Once upon a time, Warseer was involved with GW FAQs, but that's about it. True to some extent. the v3,5 version of DA Codex included suggestions from this very forum, something we take much pride in (the oldtimers might still remeber it). Granted nowadays things are different but I don't think GW designers are intentionally blind to internet forums. Just Saying. :D Cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2999307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangelus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Whatever they do, I hope they do not follow the naming conventions for the war gear/psychic powers/ units as with the BA and SW. That is sticking the first component of the Chapter name before everything (Blood lance, Wolf claws, blood talons, blood fist etc). ...Dark Sword, Dark plasma, dark fist etc etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2999329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddles Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 i dunno. i kinda like the idea of the "dark fist". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2999346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 [ a.) GW design don't pay attention to many internet boards. Once upon a time, Warseer was involved with GW FAQs, but that's about it. True to some extent. the v3,5 version of DA Codex included suggestions from this very forum, something we take much pride in (the oldtimers might still remeber it). Granted nowadays things are different but I don't think GW designers are intentionally blind to internet forums. Just Saying. :) Cheers. YES. It was that codex and GW thanking B&C that brought me to B&C...10 years ago................. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2999360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 This argument of dead or alive special characters has been brought up before. I think GW stance is that a character that is dead in the current timeline can still make it to the Codex. Frankly I'm OK with it. To me the main function of a special character is to examine in more detail a particular aspect of the Chapter. What sort of individuals make the elite of a given faction? What does this say for the faction in question? Given that the Chapters' span through the millenia, I bet there must have been other interesting personalities that thrived in the 38th of 34th millenium say. I would very much like to know about them. Besides, ruleswise, you can always take the rules of a Special Character and re-name him to match your liking. Naaman's rules might fit your Vetreran Scout Sergeant who happens to be called, I dunno, Belisarius! ;) Therefore everybody is a winner and we get a better feeling of the Chapter! After all the DAs must have had heroes of renown between the Heresy and 40k! just my 2c Tycho Eldrad Lord Solar Macharius (already dead when the character came out) Namaan (ditto) Nork Deddog (ditto) Gw when pressed has said that these are Archtypes and even if the named character is dead there is another character out there with the same stats/abilities that exemplifies the character of an army as Semper has said. Andy Chambers wrote up Namaan after he had a scout sergeant do the unlikely feats when he and his mates played a home brew campaign that later got written up into the Piscina "Storm of Vengance" campaign pack. I'm holding out for Jetbike squads and the "Jr Chaplain Squad" in leiu of "Thunderlions" as they are a better "exaggeration" of our chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247473-some-new-da-specific-rumours-on-warseer/page/4/#findComment-2999405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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