Morticon Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Thanks to all for staying calm while discussing a potentially hairy topic! Go BA :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryc Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Are we debating this because some want it one way and others don't? The rules are quite clear and GW has FAQ'd specific weapons that they wish to behave contrary to what the new rules say. To miss out both glaives and Dante's axe mortalis while amending lemartes' crozius, while possible, seems very improbable. Edit: This sounds a little in tone. Didn't mean it sound that way! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I might be wrong, but right now I think it is pretty clear the faq is on my side. They did not leave this out of the faq by chance. I don't think we can conclude anything because something was left out of the FAQ since it is clearly a poorly put together document. Case in point is the Red Thirst rules for Independent Characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiation Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Are we debating this because some want it one way and others don't? The rules are quite clear and GW has FAQ'd specific weapons that they wish to behave contrary to what the new rules say. To miss out both glaives and Dante's axe mortalis while amending lemartes' crozius, while possible, seems very improbable. Edit: This sounds a little in tone. Didn't mean it sound that way! :D I would be happy to play it either way. I don't see either ruling as a nerf. On the one hand Dante continues to play as normal within the structure of the new rule set. On the other hand he would use the "Power axe" rule and become a heavy hitter. I just can't find any rule that says he has access to the "Power axe" stats to become a heavy hitter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastellan Kong Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 The Epic Tale of Dantes Power-Axe-Sword-Weapon-Thing. I can see it going either way. Honestly. There are advantages with both versions. To be honest. AP2 is a BIG deal in close combat now. And he can't get targeted directly outside of challenges. Charge stuff. Have Dante hang back behind Wall-o-Dudes. Have sergeant accept challenges. Beat face. And with his Axe as an Axe, he will be able to add a lot of attacks that can break 2+ saves. This is a BIG deal. Hmmmm... not sure I want it to be a sword anymore :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Are we debating this because some want it one way and others don't? Im sure being the fine upstanding gamers we are, we're just looking for clarity :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastellan Kong Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Are we debating this because some want it one way and others don't? Im sure being the fine upstanding gamers we are, we're just looking for clarity :D Hogwash! It's either my way or the highway! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryc Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I'd be happy to play it either way too I'm just confused as to why we're determined to debate that red may in fact not be red but blue because someone forgot to tell us that red is infact blue.....it's red. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiation Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 It would be best if they FAQed all the unusual weapons. The rules are a bit complicated. Still, I don't see anything that gives a Power axe access to anything other than its own stat table and since The Axe Mortalis has rules beyond the table it must be an Unusual Power Weapon. That is the only category where it fits and under that category counts as AP 3 Melee with its own unique rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 well said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 It would be best if they FAQed all the unusual weapons. The rules are a bit complicated. Still, I don't see anything that gives a Power axe access to anything other than its own stat table and since The Axe Mortalis has rules beyond the table it must be an Unusual Power Weapon. That is the only category where it fits and under that category counts as AP 3 Melee with its own unique rules. Personally I agree with this. The Axe Mortalis is a unique weapon, in my opinion, so by rules it is AP3. But, based on how they FAQed several things I think it could also be an Axe, Ap2, I1, Stength 5. I would have though Khârn was unique weapon too before the FAQ. Personally I want Clarity. I don't want ot have to argue before a game about it I want GW to rule all the special characters and what their weapons are officially. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Really it is common sense to FAQ all SCs and their weapons. Because we all know the looks we will get when we explain to our opponent that the Axe Mortalis doesn't count as a Power Axe..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Agreed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 and i'd not be suprised if we got a similar look if saying it WAS an axe against say... a deathwing list it's not clear cut, and currently there is just too much room for interpretation as it stands. It's definitely fair to say that there are very valid arguements for it to be either, so an answer from GW is kinda required, I know jamesI and myself both emailed em, wonder if any/many others did Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 This same conversation is going on in other forums too. Logan Grimnar for Space Wolves as an example. All should be FAQed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiation Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I don't play the Chaos Codex. Does Kharne have any additional rules for Gorechild or is it a straight "Power axe?" If it has an additional rule then is is still an Unusual Power Weapon but instead of being AP 3 Melee it instead replaces that specific part of the rule with the Power Axe stats just like Lemartes' Crozius is still an Unusual Power Weapon but has been FAQed to replace its AP 3 Melee with the "Power maul" stats and still keeps its additional rules. If Gorechild has been FAQed to be identical to a standard "Powe axe" then that is a specific case of rules writing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daybreak Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Just like NFW, Glaive Encarmines are covered in the Unusual Power Weapons rule. They have their own name. They are not "power weapon." They are Glaive Encarmine. They also have "one or more unique rules." "...a two-handed master-crafted weapon." That is not a "Power Weapons" and cannot fall under the category of "Types of Power Weapons" where it says, "...a power weapon which has no further special rules" and then uses a table to unlock rules for a "Power axe." Therefore, you have to continue on to "Unusual Power Weapons" where it states "...power weapons that have one or more unique rules...treat it as an AP 3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry." It can't be more clear. There is nothing in the rules that says, 'add the named (Glaive Encarmine, The Axe Mortalis) unique weapon type rule or more than one rule to the Power Weapons type of your modeled choosing.' A Glaive Encarmine is an Unusual Power Weapon is a Glaive Encarmine. A The Axe Mortalis is an Unusual Power Weapon is a The Axe Mortalis. They changed Lemartes Crozius specifically not so you can follow their creative example and change every other Unusual Power Weapon in the Codex to how you see fit even if it might be fun to see Dante chasing down Terminators. Lemartes still has an Unusual Power Weapon although it is no longer AP 3 Melee. It now includes within its Unusual rules the same stats as a "Power maul" as well as its own additional unique rules. That doesn't make it a "Power Weapon" and subject to the "Types of Power Weapons" table and it doesn't give us the ability to do the same to anyone elses "Unusual Power Weapon." I'm totally with you man, but prepare to be ignored by half the people here <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I don't play the Chaos Codex. Does Kharne have any additional rules for Gorechild or is it a straight "Power axe?" If it has an additional rule then is is still an Unusual Power Weapon but instead of being AP 3 Melee it instead replaces that specific part of the rule with the Power Axe stats just like Lemartes' Crozius is still an Unusual Power Weapon but has been FAQed to replace its AP 3 Melee with the "Power maul" stats and still keeps its additional rules. If Gorechild has been FAQed to be identical to a standard "Powe axe" then that is a specific case of rules writing. Gorechild had extra rules if I recall correctly. But I play Thousand Sons, not World Eaters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 huh if they gave Grimnar a power axe that would be stupid, you can get +1A od 2xS....not the hardest choise ever. This whole problem arises from the stupid ruling about power axes, really they should never have been I1 in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiation Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Daybreak: <_< I like the odds. Don't get me wrong, I really like the rules for the new types of power weapons, including the Power axe. Variety leads to further complexity. Very exciting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Grimnar's rules state that he either counts as a Frost Axe or a Power Fist.... so either way he's I1 lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 actually, grimnars rules state either a frost blade or power fist. frost blades have their own specific rules in the FAQ. so Grimnar really seems a none issue to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Good point! I stand corrected! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I just broughtup Grimnar as an example fo the same discussion going on in other forums. Lets keep this one to Dante. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So by RAW as the rules currently stand.... Axe Mortalis is a MC Power Weapon AP3 S.User ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/7/#findComment-3102668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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