JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So by RAW as the rules currently stand.... Axe Mortalis is a MC Power Weapon AP3 S.User ? Sadly, I don't consider either side clearly correct here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So by RAW as the rules currently stand.... Axe Mortalis is a MC Power Weapon AP3 S.User ? Sadly, I don't consider either side clearly correct here. I would prefer I1 AP2, I will bring Dante to the table and if there is any dispute roll dice I am happy with I6 AP3 as well. Glaive encarmines are already effectively FAQed. The Sanguinor uses a master crafted glaive encarmine identical to the SG. His I6 is unchanged and the weapon is AP3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So by RAW as the rules currently stand.... Axe Mortalis is a MC Power Weapon AP3 S.User ? Sadly, I don't consider either side clearly correct here. I would prefer I1 AP2, I will bring Dante to the table and if there is any dispute roll dice I am happy with I6 AP3 as well. Glaive encarmines are already effectively FAQed. The Sanguinor uses a master crafted glaive encarmine identical to the SG. His I6 is unchanged and the weapon is AP3 Could you quote that for me? I did not see any mention of Glaives int he FAQ. You would prefer I1 AP2 strength 5? I would find Dante's usefulness over then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Ahh hang on checking again give me a minute please I might have stuffed this up Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 The issue with the Sanguinor is a bit unclear due to his weapon being a Sword anyway Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Cant find the entry clearing that up for Glaive Encarmines damn ! another that needs sorting out along with the Axe GW guess we gotta wait for replies to Morts emails. Still The Sanguinor did not get expressly mentioned nor did Dante, is that a sign that the outcome is supposed to be obvious to us (no reduced I). I hope at least The Sanguinor keeps his I because if glaives go to low I the way of Dantes Axe then SG follow and are effectively useless. We get all our viable HQ's builds nerfed totally. I dont mind one slow HQ but one whole elites slot and the Sanguinor ? thats too much Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Offtopic, but the space dogs are kidding themselves with Grimnar. His weapon before 6th edition was either a power fist or frost blade. In 6th edition, frost blades were clarified to be either frost blades (swords) or frost axes, but they are taking the wording the codex (frost blade) to mean what it did in 5th edition, so str 5 ap 3. That thing in 6th edition is a Frost Axe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 All this just goes to show that having Axe striking at the same time as power fists is stupid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 To throw more fuel on the fire. Look at he entry for Lemartes. Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost, the Blood Crozius. Change last sentence to: “The Blood Crozius is a master-crafted power maul.” Apparently power mauls can be master crafted. Why would Dante's Axe not just be a Power Axe that happens to be master crafted as well. Sounds to me like Initiative 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine_28 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 To throw more fuel on the fire. Look at he entry for Lemartes. Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost, the Blood Crozius. Change last sentence to: “The Blood Crozius is a master-crafted power maul.” Apparently power mauls can be master crafted. Why would Dante's Axe not just be a Power Axe that happens to be master crafted as well. Sounds to me like Initiative 1. Because it doesn't say that it's a master-crafted power axe. The fact that the writers didn't feel it necessary to address Dante's weapon indicates pretty strongly that we're to use it as written (which is an S4 AP3 master-crafted power weapon). Imo anyway. =) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 No it just says "The Axe Mortalis is a master-crafted power weapon". The power weapon happens to be an axe. Apparently the new versions of the power weapons apparently can get master crafted. Seems to be worded almost identical to Lemartes in the FAQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 About Glaive Encarmine (I love that name) There are two versions: The sword and the axe. But they are simply called Glaive Encarmine, not GE: axe and GE: sword. So therefore the Glaive Encarmine is a unique special weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Wrong. Just because it is named does not make it unique. Having it's own special rules and or profile is what makes a power weapon unique. The question is whether or not two handed or master crafted make the glaive encarmines unique. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine_28 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 This is such a headache. I wish they'd just spelled out what every army-specific weapon did in each FAQ so we don't have to debate or wonder about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Ok, well the rules address power axes. Glaives are Glaives whether they are swords or axes and since they weren't FAQ'd like frost blades I'm calling Glaives AP3 strike at I. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 You can call it whatever you want. It doesn't make it right. A glaive is a halberd if you want to be restrictive. Halberds are axes according to the rules. If the glaive encarmine ends up not being a unique power weapon (which we all hope it is) hope they will let you look at the model and call it a sword or an axe based on how it looks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Now I've played I actually think an Axe is BETTER for Dante than a powersword. It's strange, but High Initiative on independent characters this edition isn't necessarily a good thing, in fact it can be fatal. In fact I'm hoping they FAQ it so it is one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Now I've played I actually think an Axe is BETTER for Dante than a powersword. It's strange, but High Initiative on independent characters this edition isn't necessarily a good thing, in fact it can be fatal. In fact I'm hoping they FAQ it so it is one! Really, the ability to hang in the back then move in on I1 that much better? What about dealing with challenges? Ok, I give up. baring a response to my email (or an update to the FAQ) I'll bring a list with Dante to my store and see if people want to run it as an axe and I'll try it out. If so, I'll probably swap the arm to give Dante an actual axe, because I think it will cause issues to leave him a sword if I'm using axe rules... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I find the fact that people claim that the AXE Mortalis is not an axe, but either another power weapon, or a powersword with a funny blade setting quite amusing. Rule beating has already started. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/Azatoth/Miniatures/Dante.jpg Comander Dante of the Blood Angels with his with his Non-Axe-Power-Thingie!! Please read the thread. NOoooooo one is arguing that it is NOT an Axe. What they are arguing is that it is an Axe with additional rules- which by the rule book uses a PW profile- NOT an Axe profile. Lemartes' weapon was specifically changed. Kharne's weapon was specifically changed. Dante's was not. Dante would be a lot worse off either way with an AP3 weapon anyway. AP2 may be a LOT better for him, especially considering he has 2+ artificer. its not about what we want for the character as much as what the rules are saying. i think the discussion should be about whether it is, or is not an axe. we can model our units with any of the mentioned power weapons if they have a power weapon, yes? well, dante has a power weapon, an MC power weapon, but it's still a power weapon as it's written, isn't it? so it's one of the mentioned types, depending on how i model it. also, MC isn't a unique rule. it's a USR, which includes the word universal, which sort of rules out the idea of it being unique. if lemmy had to be faqed to be a maul, i think dante would have to be faqed to change it as well if it were specifically being made a power axe, but they didn't have to because it's a power weapon and you go by what's on the model. the same thing applies to glaives i think, they are whatever they look like, which for me is three swords, and a lance, they also all have the universal, again, not at all unique, rules of two handed and master crafted. i think that these rules were added to the USR instead of special melee weapons rules like the last edition, to preclude this sort of argument, but it should have been made clear in the faqs or the book itself. i hope that this doesn't come across as overly snotty, the point i'm trying to make is that to me, it doesn't seem a clear cut as some people seem to think. all of the above models are mentioned as having power weapons, which the book specifically says, are to be treated as whatever they look like. if it is faqqed to say other wise, well, then i'll be fine with that, but i sort of thought they didn't faq any of them because it was already covered in the book. unless it has unique special rules, that only apply to that weapon, such as the Ex Axe, or NFW, it is what it looks like. and i think that anything that is a USR can't be construed to make a weapon unique. i think lemmy was just faqqed because he is a chaplain and all chaplains are supposed to have crozius which are mauls now. it might have just been an oversight in dante's case, but i don't think so. just my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Adrak Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thing about glaives is they are master crafted TWO-HANDED power weapons, the two-handed bit makes them different from normal power weapons, does it not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Who knows? Two handed means it takes two hands. There isn't any differentiation on the power weapon chart. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Now I've played I actually think an Axe is BETTER for Dante than a powersword. It's strange, but High Initiative on independent characters this edition isn't necessarily a good thing, in fact it can be fatal. In fact I'm hoping they FAQ it so it is one! Really, the ability to hang in the back then move in on I1 that much better? What about dealing with challenges? Ok, I give up. baring a response to my email (or an update to the FAQ) I'll bring a list with Dante to my store and see if people want to run it as an axe and I'll try it out. If so, I'll probably swap the arm to give Dante an actual axe, because I think it will cause issues to leave him a sword if I'm using axe rules... Challenges shouldn't be much of a problem, could be an advantage. Dante has a 2+ save and most AP2 combat weaponry is limited to I1. Consider if Dante accepted a challenge from a charging Astorath. Even 4 attacks hitting on 4's with a reroll and wounding on 2's is going to bounce off Dante's 2+. Dante then strikes back with 5 attacks hitting on 4, wounding on 3, 4+ save. He's much more likely to sneak a wound through. Factor in if Dante Charges for Str6 +1A and/or gimped Astorath with his mask and look at the result <_< If someone challenges your unit with a powerfist/instant death type character, just answer it with your PW/LC or naked priest/sarge. Rarely will you want to issue challenges with Dante when there are enemy 1W characters present because their is no overkill. You can stick Dante at the front and tank everything on your 4W 2+save, or just have him walk up at I1 and take heads at Str6 on the charge. Combat is a lot more complicated in that a lot more things can go down in that phase, but I don't really rate AP3 swords on characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thing about glaives is they are master crafted TWO-HANDED power weapons, the two-handed bit makes them different from normal power weapons, does it not? i kinda don't think so, as two-handed isn't unique, it's a USR now. unique rules isn't the same as special rules. so they are just power weapons of whatever type they look like. until our codex update when we start paying for specific types of power weapons when we create our army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Adrak Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So if a Ultra marine has a relic blade that looks like an axe? +4 str? Relic blade - Two handed sword OR AXE that counts as a power weapon str 6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 No. Relic Blades have their own Unique special rules. So are S6 AP3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254954-does-dantes-weapon-count-as-an-axe/page/8/#findComment-3102835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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