scout armies in 6th

[greatcrusade08]

How does it leave them too weak to retaliate? Against Marines, with shotguns, you'd be lucky if you killed more than one guy.

 

its more likely to kill two tbh (from shooting), if your using them as a bully unit, tackling marine units with half your strength then they will be fine

[Ricter]

How does it leave them too weak to retaliate? Against Marines, with shotguns, you'd be lucky if you killed more than one guy.

 

its more likely to kill two tbh (from shooting), if your using them as a bully unit, tackling marine units with half your strength then they will be fine

 

19 shots -> 9.5 hits -> 4.5 wounds -> 1.5 MEQ dead (or 1.05 MEQ dead if shotguns are only S3, I'm away from books right now), with every scout within 12" and LOS. That's a far cry from being more likely to kill two, especially without seeing the numbers on it and if the shotgun is only S3.

 

In return, that 9 man tactical squad is firing 13 bolt shots -> 8.7 hits -> 4.3 wounds -> 2.2 scouts dead. That's not including the special nor heavy weapon - doesn't seem like a good trade at all.

[greatcrusade08]

19 shots -> 9.5 hits -> 4.5 wounds -> 1.5 MEQ dead (or 1.05 MEQ dead if shotguns are only S3, I'm away from books right now), with every scout within 12" and LOS. That's a far cry from being more likely to kill two, especially without seeing the numbers on it and if the shotgun is only S3.

 

In return, that 9 man tactical squad is firing 13 bolt shots -> 8.7 hits -> 4.3 wounds -> 2.2 scouts dead. That's not including the special nor heavy weapon - doesn't seem like a good trade at all.

 

ok firstly 19 shots is 9.5 hits and 4.75 wounds, which equates to 1.58 dead marines, closer to 2 than 1 :)

and shotguns means you dont have to stand and take the shots back, you charge in.

 

also note my caveat

if your using them as a bully unit, tackling marine units with half your strength then they will be fine

[Lucien Eilam]

Rounding 1.5 up to 2 in real life requires a bit of a luck, or at least a favourable grouping for a frag grenade from the Sergeant.

 

And he says he does this on the first turn, when he can't charge, and then finishes them off on turn two. Even if your opponent has left a minimum sized squad standing around in the open somewhere stupid, beyond reach of any supporting unit, "too weak to retaliate" is stretching the limits of credibility.

 

I like using Shotgun scouts in a landspeeder storm. Basically using them as CCW scouts. In the end you get the same amount of attacks, only more before the combat and less during combat.

 

Except the bolt pistol is AP5, so against many opponents the shotgun isn't quite twice as good as one pistol shot, and the BP+CCW advantage increases every round the combat lasts.

 

If you want mobile shooting, take boltguns. If you want to charge, take pistols. If you want something that looks cool but isn't very good at anything, shotguns all the way.

 

I'd like to see them back to S3 but with Strikedown in the next Codex. They're pretty pointless right now.

[ShinyRhino]

Uh, actually, the 10-man Scout squad with 9 shotguns and a BP/PW sergeat fires 18 shotgun shots at BS3 and one BP shot at BS4. That's 9.66 hits, 4.83 wounds, and 1.5939 kills. The entire world rounds 1.5 up to 2. That's elementary school stuff.

 

The question in this situation isn't the math, it's the positioning and flase assumption that you can actually pull the maneuver off reliably. Infiltration is still an 18" buffer zone inside LOS and 12" outside LOS. Unless you're playing on the "perfect" table, the maneuver will fall flat. Deploy at 18.00001", move 6", and you're still out of shotgun range by a hair. You cannot legally move 6" from an inside-LOS infiltration range and actually fire a 12" range weapon. The maneuver requires a bevyof LOS-blocking terrain (enough to hide 10 scouts from all the enemyunits nearby).

[greatcrusade08]

If you want pedantry (which you started with - I'm not the one who pulled out the calculator), it's precisely 1.5 from the shotguns, plus whatever the Sergeant does: 0.11 from his pistol, 0.19 from a krak grenade, and doing any better with a frag will require favourable clustering and scatter.

 

It's never going to be 1.58 - your calculation is based on a BS3 Sergeant firing his bolt pistol, rather than throwing a grenade, for no reason I can fathom.

 

And in real life, rather than mathematics, killing two will require a bit of luck, because dice don't work in fractions. Not even 1.69 could be said to be a dead cert. That's all I said, and it's perfectly true.

 

as you can tell i never actually pulled out a calculator, i merely corrected the parts of your maths that were incorrect... which by being the 'smart guy' here youve proved was more wrong than i even asserted.

so what have you proved, that the 1.58 i suggested was wrong and the fiure was slightly more towards the two mark.

and yet you try and backtrack by suggesting youd need luck to get two kills (maths tells us its more liekly than one kill)

and i quote you here:

That's a far cry from being more likely to kill two

 

so guess what my friend, pedantyr or no, your just plain worng and cant admit it.. thats poor showing

 

yup becuase there are only two units on the whole battlefield.

 

That's precisely the point. On turn one, the entire army is likely to be in position to retaliate, not just the one squad that you barely scratched. Even three Space Marines with boltguns will kill at least one in return.

again incorrect, infiltrated by a competant person it should be impossible for your opponents enitre army to 'retaliate' i think your the one stretching the credibility here.

there are two whole armies on the field, not one unit of scouts vs an entire army

 

It's quite constructive to explain why a poor tactic isn't a wise investment of points, in the context of a tactics forum. If nobody bothered, people might go away thinking that his assertion that 9 infiltrating shotguns and a power sword is a reliable alpha strike against Space Marine armies is true. There are circumstances in which that squad will do all right (against 5 Snipers, say, when everything else is deep-striking), but usually they won't come close to getting their points back.

 

"Constructive" != "happy-clappy Scouts are awesome at everything regardless of what options you take".

 

Please leave moderation to the moderators.

 

i think you should stop posting here, your attitude leaves alot to be desired and all your doing is clogging up MY thread with nonsense

getting points back is also nonsensical when discussing troops choices as they are mandatory, you have only good or bad choices.

this thread isnt about how scouts are better than say tac marines, this thread is about getting the most from scout squads, theres a difference

the person who suggested them never said the unit was reliable in every instance, he explained how he uses cityfight boards which increases thier survivability.. i merely corrected your assertion that they would be lucky to kill more than one.. when ifact they would be unlucky to kill less than two

 

btw scouts infiltrate and scout, so you opponent doesnt necessarily have to leave his weaker units in the open for you to get to them..

 

They'd have to be pretty out of the way and in the open for it not to be a suicidal use of that squad on turn one though.

again your supposing there are no other units on the table, why would it be suicidal to infiltrate a unit of shooty scouts near one of your opponents weaker units?

oh thats right, becase his whole army will wipe them out in the next turn, an then us scout players will lost the game, becuase after all we have only the one unit on the table

[greatcrusade08]

it's not a question of averages. It's a questionof statistical analysis. The "average" of a set consisting of every outcome from 0 to 20 is...10. The statistical outcome is 1.5939.

 

thaks shiny rhino..

9 shotguns + sergeant shooting at marines is most likely going to result in 2 casualties..

so whats the problem, why have we had several posts trying to disprove that?

and whats the problem with my pointing out thats its 2 and not 1?

[BassWave]

Sorry I should have specified. I go after small teams of potentially dangerous units such as sternguard, assault marines, and long fangs. However don't look down on the shotgun, weight of fire can overcome the lack of ap.

 

Edit: Ninja'd by a huge argument :P Whoa fellas, didn't mean to cause a stir. Like I said before, the city terrain we play on allows me me to infiltrate close to my enemies, specifically small elite units. Basically I just use guerilla tactics. That first turn blow to my opponents elite unit usually distracts him to the point where he focus fires the scouts letting my other units position themselves better. I also use an epistolary with dome and gate with a full tactical squad to back up the scouts.

[greatcrusade08]

Sorry I should have specified. I go after small teams of potentially dangerous units such as sternguard, assault marines, and long fangs. However don't look down on the shotgun, weight of fire can overcome the lack of ap.

 

weight of fire is how my scout army operates, for the entirety of 5th i barely had more than 2 or 3 AP2 or better weapons in the enitre 1750 points**..

if you play armies other than marines youll fin shotguns get better and better, just like bolters with an charge afterwards in some circumstances

 

**actually thats incorrect i had 4, but two were combis

[greatcrusade08]

Uh, actually, the 10-man Scout squad with 9 shotguns and a BP/PW sergeat fires 18 shotgun shots at BS3 and one BP shot at BS4. That's 9.66 hits, 4.83 wounds, and 1.5939 kills. The entire world rounds 1.5 up to 2. That's elementary school stuff.

 

The question in this situation isn't the math, it's the positioning and flase assumption that you can actually pull the maneuver off reliably. Infiltration is still an 18" buffer zone inside LOS and 12" outside LOS. Unless you're playing on the "perfect" table, the maneuver will fall flat. Deploy at 18.00001", move 6", and you're still out of shotgun range by a hair. You cannot legally move 6" from an inside-LOS infiltration range and actually fire a 12" range weapon. The maneuver requires a bevyof LOS-blocking terrain (enough to hide 10 scouts from all the enemyunits nearby).

 

soory SR i missed this very important post amongst the silly arguments.

 

scvouts still get to scout after infiltrating, the limitation on scout moves is 12", so youll always get your shotgun range

[ShinyRhino]

scvouts still get to scout after infiltrating, the limitation on scout moves is 12", so youll always get your shotgun range

 

/headsmack. I forgot they had both!

[Lucien Eilam]

and i quote you here:

That's a far cry from being more likely to kill two

No you don't. That's from Ricter's post. Please have the courtesy to not misquote people.

 

so guess what my friend, pedantyr or no, your just plain worng and cant admit it.. thats poor showing

It's not a guarantee of two, it's a slight statistical lean, which means you'll need a small amount of luck. This isn't a difficult concept. A single dice to hit or wound falling the other way tips the balance to below 1.5.

 

That's what you're gambling a 155 point unit on, which could give your opponent an easy 2 Victory Points in some scenarios. Say you do kill 2. Both players have an entire army. You've used a 155 point squad to kill 2 Space Marines from a 5 man squad in turn one. Whatever the rest of your army does in that turn, almost anything your opponent does in reply will be more effective than what those Scouts achieved.

 

Even killing 2, 3 Space Marines left will be dangerous. They can at least throw a frag grenade back, probably have a special or heavy weapon, or a Sergeant (because who leaves 5 naked boltgun guys at the back of the table?), and even 3 boltguns will be likely to score 1 kill. Do you consider that "too weak to retaliate"?

 

You can do awesome things with Scouts on turn one. This isn't one of those things.

 

i think you should stop posting here, your attitude leaves alot to be desired and all your doing is clogging up MY thread with nonsense

This is a public forum. If you don't like people responding, get a blog. I haven't posted anything untrue, and I'm not the one insulting people, suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to post, or calling them names.

 

I think you should stop being so hostile to other people who haven't done anything more than question somebody's tactical advice for a game of toy soldiers.

 

getting points back is also nonsensical when discussing troops choices as they are mandatory, you have only good or bad choices.

And nine shotguns and a power sword is a bad choice. In that it's a worse choice than practically any other way of equipping 10 Scouts, without even comparing them to other Troops choices.

 

again your supposing there are no other units on the table, why would it be suicidal to infiltrate a unit of shooty scouts near one of your opponents weaker units?

oh thats right, becase his whole army will wipe them out in the next turn, an then us scout players will lost the game, becuase after all we have only the one unit on the table

I'm not saying, and didn't say, anything about "Scout players", the viability of all-Scout armies, whether Scout units are any good, or whether BassWave will win or lose the game as a result of what he's using. I like Scouts, and my armies always include 1-2 squads of them. I don't like BassWave's squad, because I don't think they sound very useful.

 

I commented on the specific assertion that a 10 man Scout squad with shotguns and a power sword can reliably destroy a small Space Marine unit in the first two turns of the game without retaliation. If you think that's a) true and b) a good way to equip and use Scouts, please back it up, rather than attacking me.

 

However don't look down on the shotgun, weight of fire can overcome the lack of ap.

But boltguns have the same weight of fire, better AP, and better range. You can charge, but if you're going to charge, the bolt pistols work out better.

[ShinyRhino]

As BassWave clarified his "target" unit, we can actually simulate the fight. Let's take a 5-man combat squad of Sternguard as the example target:

 

Turn One

 

Scout Shooting:

18 shotgun shots, 1 bolt pistol shot = 9 shotgun hits, .66 pistol hits (9.66 hits) = 4.83 wounds = 1.5939 Dead Marines, rounded to two because you can't kill partial Marines, and rounding is our only way to cope with a simulated dice game.

Three Sternguard Marines remain.

 

Marine Shooting:

6 Hellfire shots = 4 hits = 3 wounds = 2 dead Scouts.

Seven shotgunners and the Sergeant remain.

OR

3 bolt pistol shots = 2 hits = 1 wound = 1 dead Scout.

Eight shotgunners and the Sergeant remain.

Marine Assault:

Scouts Overwatch = 16 shotgun, 1 BP = 3 hits = 2 wounds = 1 dead Marine. 2 Remain.

Marine Melee = 6 attacks, 4 hits, 2 wounds, 1 dead Scout (Seven shotgunners and Sgt remain)

Scout Melee = 8 regular attacks, 3 power sword = 4 reg hits, 2 sword hits = 2 reg wounds, 1 sword wound = 1 sword death, 1 regular death.

 

Scouts Win.

 

 

Turn Two (if the Marines Rapid Fired instead of charging)

 

Scout Shooting:

14 shotgun, 1 BP = 8 hits = 4 wounds = 1 dead marine (2 remain)

Scout Assault:

Marine Overwatch = 4 shots, 1 hit, 1 wound, 1 dead Scout (6 shotgunners, sgt remain)

Marine Melee = 4 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds, 1 dead Scout (5 shotgunners, sgt remain)

Scout Melee = 12 reg attacks, 4 PW attacks = 6 reg hits, 2 PW hits = 3 reg wounds, 1 sword wound = 1 sword kill, 1 reg kill

 

Scouts Win.

 

Either way you stack it, a 10-strong unit of scouts with shotguns and a pistol/power sword sergeant CAN kill 5 Marines in two turns (one if the Marines attempt to retaliate in melee).

 

(Also, some might recommend firing Kraken instead of Hellfire. Turn one Rapid Fire will still kill 2 Scouts, Turn Two Overwatch still kills one. Identical in such a small unit, though as the size of the Sternguard grows, Kraken is better and better, but that's not the exercise!)

[BassWave]

Lucien, my squad might not sound useful, but they have performed well in the past 5 games. The reason I give that squad shotguns is so that I can get in my opponents face at turn one and fire 19 at something important. By turn two I can get roughly the same amount of shots AND assault. I challenge the opposing sarge, kill him, lowering the leadership of the whole unit and either wipe them out or make them run if they are close to the board edge. Keep in mind that I don't blindly send them off on a unit thinking the scouts will do everything themselves, I do have the rest of the army you know :lol:. I use the scouts in concert with a warp gating tactical squad powered by force dome. This forces my opponent to make a decision. Kill the scouts before they start tying units up in assault and allow the tactical squad to keep blasting away, or try to make a dent in the tact squad and risk an assault on an already damaged unit.

 

 

Note that i'm speaking from my experience. What I explained above happens, its not a theory that i'm proposing. Also note that my meta might be different than yours. I tend to face a lot of marine armies where the lack of ap on shotguns does not matter.

[greatcrusade08]

Note that i'm speaking from my experience. What I explained above happens, its not a theory that i'm proposing. Also note that my meta might be different than yours. I tend to face a lot of marine armies where the lack of ap on shotguns does not matter.

 

tbh this is just the insight this topic needs, lucien whilst i dislike your attitude your arguments arent invalid (after seperating them from mathematical incorectness), they just seem to me to come from theory.

the point about scouts is not that they should always be able to beat thier targets alone, just that they are capable of doing so when used in the correct list that supports thier inclusion

getting into discussions about "the whole army will retaliate next turn" is not constructive and only serves to muddy the waters here.

 

anecdotal evidence always beats personal opinions IMO

[Cornelias]

I completely dislike mathhammering of any sort, there are just too many variables even outside of the randomness of so many dice rolls to consider, it's folly to even try use it to reason a point. I much prefer statements of actual experience over a certain amount of time.

 

Considering this thread is about actual Scout armies it's a safe bet to say anyone posting about their usage of scouts is well aware of the pitfalls and drawbacks when matched up against certain situations, this thread should be about how to overcome them through army selection and tactical play since the release of the new rules, not fractions and decimal points.

[nurglez]

I completely dislike mathhammering of any sort, there are just too many variables even outside of the randomness of so many dice rolls to consider, it's folly to even try use it to reason a point. I much prefer statements of actual experience over a certain amount of time.

This+1, mind if I quote this in my signature?

 

Slightly OT, I hate math hammer, and I do factor in averages when deciding what to do in my games, but other times I go for the 1 in a million shot. The internet has a way of boiling units down to fighting via math hammer one on one, and I am a big supporter of "take units you like".

 

Back OT

 

I didn't really rate scout armies that much, until my draigo and 10 paladins deathstar unit got alpha striked by a scout army at throne of skulls. By the second turn I only had Draigo left (first game ever that I had lost 10 paladins in 1 game turn). I still won the game though (best game of that throne of skulls event by far).

 

After that, I pay more attention to these threads.

 

Totally theory here, but I do believe that a small disruption unit (or several) can have a big impact on a game, and make back their points worth by winning it (for example, 1 scout from that squad contesting an enemy objective in the final turn). And these are things that cant be figured out by math hammer. It's also why certain units are worthless to some people (who have never tried them or only tried them once) and a must take for people when they fit their playing style.

[Kingkaneda]

I like using Shotgun scouts in a landspeeder storm. Basically using them as CCW scouts. In the end you get the same amount of attacks, only more before the combat and less during combat.

 

Except the bolt pistol is AP5, so against many opponents the shotgun isn't quite twice as good as one pistol shot, and the BP+CCW advantage increases every round the combat lasts.

 

If you want mobile shooting, take boltguns. If you want to charge, take pistols. If you want something that looks cool but isn't very good at anything, shotguns all the way.

 

I'd like to see them back to S3 but with Strikedown in the next Codex. They're pretty pointless right now.

 

Wow dude, you really like to think in boxes dont you? You dont care for flexibilty either?

 

Boltpistols have 6 inch range compared to shotgun. So with the shotgun you will be able to fire more often.

Sure boltpistols have AP 5, but when the enemy has a 5+ or 6+ armor save wouldnt you rather have twice the shots(since he wont save many with his crap saves anyway?).

 

Bolters are better shootingwise ofcourse(more range+AP5 while keeping same amount of shots), but dissalow a charge.

 

Scouts are pretty fragile. The only way I see them surviving even 1 round of combat is by them charging in to deny their enemy their extra attacks. Killing 1 or 2 while shooting on the charge increases 1 round survivalbility this even more. Let the enemy kill them in their assault phase, you have hold them for a turn and weakend them for the rest of your army.

 

Combined with the heavy flamer on my landspeeder storm they do a great job for me, killing weak scoring squads or holding shooty squads in combat.

 

I think the shotgun is a great middleway between the boltpistol and the bolter.

[DarkGuard]

OK guys, can we stay off the endless Math-hammer debate please? 1.5 may be 2 or less etc, but I don't think GC08 was looking for raw damage output from Scouts here, but rather tactics.

[Deiros]

Math-hammer is nice if you want to calculate your odds in game time to make a critical decision, or something of the sort.

 

I could not use that for the case presented here of a scout unit attacking a marine unit (regardless of size and type) because of all the variables left out.

 

I'm a Carcharodons Astra player and my melee scouts are damn terror causing brutal machines of death, when they charge someone.

 

I ALWAYS include 4 scout units, 5 sniper+ML, 5 bolter+ HB and the other two units are baby sitting the other two objective holding scouts or harassing enemy units.

Those melee units are 10 man strong with 5 shotguns and bolt+ccw, Combi-, melta bomb + Power Sword sgt. I'm used to getting my Furious Charge and Rage when they assault and it's not that hard if you hide them well and close enough to make your opponent nervous. (+2 attack and +1 str even if it's at WS3 is a ton of rolls they must save.)

 

The important thing I discovered is that they make it very hard for your opponents to try and assault your shooting scouts because they have to ensure they get the charge on my scouts or they are going to be shot and brutally charged. Of course there is also the rest of the army of more "important" units to deal with.

 

To me this is my 2 most viable strategies with my scouts. Sniper baby sitting home objective, bolter ones scouting into the middle ground and 1 ccw scout unit to baby sit reinforce their place and leaves me with 1 ccw scout unit to use according to enemy.

 

As I said, in this case there are to many variables, in which for my personal case I have taken out some (like chapter I play) and situations.

 

If my 10 Space shark scouts with 5 shotguns do the same thing, I know I will get charged because it's not worth the risk to be charged by me. Even my Assault squads are fearsome with those special rules and not to mention the humble tac squad that gets pissed and hits u harder in close combat than shooting if u get close lol. Khorne zerkers are still a tough cookie tho...

[Cornelias]

Recently i've tried out what i mentioned earlier in this thread, using Sicarius as my new warlord and having the ccw scouts sit behind an infiltrating tac squad ready to pounce on anyone that comes close. The tac squad can then pile in if needed or turn it's attention elsewhere. Usually i'm either podding in 2 dreads or 1 dread and a sternguard squad into the enemy lines to support both squads and so far it's been pretty successful.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I have a question for the thread and Scout affecionados as a whole. Background wise, I am plotting my Exorcists Chapter, who have an additional 2 Scout Companies to account for losses in their unique training practices, ergo I plan on using one or two units of Scouts in the list and am trying to decide the best way to accomplish this.

 

What are your opinions as to unit size and combat squadding? A few examples, would it be useful to take say, Telion, 4 sniper scouts, 5 shotgunner or bolter scouts then combat squad the unit and utilize a Land Speeder Storm for the shotgunner/bolter scouts? Admittedly this tactic can't be done off the table due to combat squad rules and non-dedicated transports. Or say having a tandem unit of a bolt pistol/power sword sergeant, 4 shotgun scouts, and 5 bolter scouts. Have this unit move jointly up the table in two combat squads with the bolter unit providing fire support for the shotgun unit who can engage after firing.

 

Is it better to plan on units of 5 or in larger units of 10? What seems to be more effective: unit homogonization, or utilizing rather unique equipment options to build 2 "units" with one Force Org slot and use them in pairs or joint actions?

[Cornelias]

the only time i consider taking less than a squad of 10 is a 5 man consisting of Telion + ML scout, and 3 snipers and cloaks (can combined effectively with an aegis defense line) they can be used to either shoot annoying flyers, target enemy characters from range or pin units making them really effective for such a low points value, this unit when pushed upto 10 models is almost godly but very expensive when upgraded with telion and cloaks.

Other than that i find it best to go with full squads for either bolter or ccw. With the addition of overwatch in 6th edition a 10 man bolter squad infiltrating can lay down a torrent of fire from turn 1 and usually attract the attention of an enemy alpha unit. As explained above i've only had good experiences so far with my ccw scouts in 6th but they really do need help from other units, sticking them in there by themselves isn't the best idea. I can see the merit and completely understand people mixing shotguns with ccw scouts but my personal preference is never to mix it up.

 

I've never used storms with 5 man squads so others are probably better commenting on them. Although they are something i'd like to try as i push my list size upto 2000 points, i think they are just a bit too risky for me to include them in my current 1500 points list, they also mess about with my stubborn restriction of having no models on the board until the infiltration stage (outflanking is no longer an effective tactic for them).

[greatcrusade08]

generally my rule of thumb is not to combat squad scouts if there are force org slots to accomodate the actual units.

for a measly 10 points extra you can get 2x5 instead of a combat squaded 10.

the sergeant is the most important model, hes the most highly customisable member of the squad and his upgrades can really benefit the role youve chosen the scouts to perform

 

tbh if your using telion, youd want to keep him with 10 scouts for the continued benefit of his stealth USR IMO

[rubix41]

How do folks feel shotgun scouts were treated with the changeover to 6th?

 

Positive! I built two squads under 5e (the mix I preferred was 17 shotguns and 3 BP+ CW) but I haven't tried them out in 6e. However, anyone seeing 40 scouts running up a flank especially since I am dumping a lot of S4 shots then having the assault afterwards means they can't ignore it.

 

On one hand, they can Infiltrate and put out a nice amount of Overwatch fire if assaulted. Should you want them to move forward, you can still fire those two shots per man and charge afterwards.

 

My friends swear by them but Scouts are fragile :P However, I picked shotguns for that reason above because in 5e, that made them tactically flexible because my scouts were actually going to be doing a lot of close fighting work. Also, one thing that has not been discussed in the thread: grenades

 

What about a grenade rush? For a squad of 10 scouts, that's 10 Krak grenades or 9 Krak and 1 Melta Bomb. You are going to be close due to infiltrate and scout but a squad of 5 scouts is cheaper by one power fist to a 5 man tactical squad. But shoot the shotguns in, assault and grenades will hit at initiative at S6 AP4? I might try that to see how that goes.

 

On the other, bolter scouts fire Overwatch equally well and only lack the ability to charge after moving forward and firing bolters. Pistol/blade scouts are the middle ground, shooting half as well in any situation, but gaining additional attacks when charging.

 

Ah well, bolter scouts work on a range where you can shoot at a distance but Scouts, lacking power armour and only being BS3, are not tailored to be used as a poor man's tactical squad. Sniper Scouts are all but invulnerable in bolstered ruins except when a heavy flamer comes down but that BS3 still means little or no impact except when you add Telion and suddenly there is some interest but most my opponents ignore them.

 

What I see in scouts are the toughness and strength of a marine but not the BS or WS, so I need numbers (big squads) and I need to get in combat - a scout is just as survivable as a marine in combat because, in 5e and in 6e, any power weapons will eat carapace and power alive but I am still taking a wound on T4 and fighting back at S4 (OK, WS3 but the bigger squads count)

 

I have my shotgun scouts today, I might try them out and see how it goes...