The Apocalypse Crusade

[tvih]

EDIT: Topic title updated to represent chosen Crusade name.

Hello, future battle-brothers! No dedicated topic for newbie intros in this subforum at least, so pardon the dedicated thread.

First some boring background. I'm new to 40k. For some strange I can't really explain I never dived into it before despite being interested ever since reading about the Space Hulk video game back in 1993. Only last year did I get my first real contact with 40k in the form of buying the Dawn of War video games... and yet I've only played the a few missions so far from DOW2, doh! More recently I bought and finished the Space Marine video game. After which I decided it's now or never the time to delve deeper! As such, for the past week or so I've been contemplating purchases, reading Wikis and such. All this has lead me here now, as Black Templars are what seem to catch my fancy the most, and this seems like a great resource forum for them!

Then to my equally boring plans!

As always with all my hobbies, I find myself struggling with severe budget constraints. It seemed like the Assault on Black Reach set was a way around this at first, but of course then I found I want Black Templars and that AoBR is hardly a great set for making Black Templars!

I've been thinking a lot about what to buy, but right now I'm thinking of just sticking with getting the AoBR set at first to get started with the hobby. Now, since I'm a newbie and especially suck at painting (which is why I have a huge pile of unopened 1:35 armor scale models etc sitting in my closet), I figure the cheap set should make for good practise with lesser potential money wasted on inevitable epic fails (like melting figs to goo trying to strip paint, haha!). As far as I can tell from looking at them as well as reading previous topics, the only thing in the box that's usable for Templars without too much of a headache is the Dreadnought. So I was thinking I'd do that for the Templars, but the others as Ultramarines for practise (and the same thing with the Orks). A sad BT army that will be, a single Dreadnought! But at least it's still not a bad price compared to buying one separately, even though obviously it'll lack customization options in the form of weapons (unsure if I could, without modding, use spare weapons from a separately-purchased Dread...). But in the meanwhile it ought to be a decent starter to learn to game, probably playing against my brother.

Later - or sooner, knowing my impatience - it'll be time to add tactical squads and Rhinos (well, probably a SM Battleforce) modded with the chapter upgrades, and other such appropriate units (also at some point I really, REALLY have to add a terminator chaplain simply because that's just unquestionably the most badass-looking figure I've seen from any theme and company, ever!). Sucks that it'll be so costly to assemble a BT army compared to just doing vanilla Ultramarines, but I suppose embarking on the Great Crusade has to have its sacrifices At least the end result ought to be much nicer-looking than out-of-the-box Ultramarines!

Overall it's all a bit overwhelming at the moment, but I shall do my best to stand vigilant against the forces of Chaos trying to confuse me

Edited December 1, 2019 by tvih

[Brother Sellsword]

Don't look too poorly on the marines that come with AoBR! With the new rules set shooty marines are becoming more viable. And if your painting skill is truly undeveloped you don't need fancy shmancy models to start with. I have many "regular" marines in my army... Plus if you don't need the orks, trade em for more marines! Start small and work your way up. The best way to figure out what's best for you is to play games and grow based on what best suits your style, fixes your weakness, or just looks cool! Good luck, and may your crusade be eternal!

[Marshall Crimor]

First off, Welcome to the eternal crusade brother!! I too am pretty new around here and these forums are an excellent resource. There are plenty of talented hobbyists on here that have given me a ton of inspiration-- unfortunately I have been inspired to start too many projects and am quickly running out of time to complete them before the fall semester.

 

To echo what Brother Sellsword stated, I wouldn't dismiss AoBR. The box contains enough figures to give you some good practice. I wasn't sure if I could paint black armor at first so my first investmest was a small 5 man marine kit and a 5 man scout kit, along with the necessary paints and some modelling epoxy. I used the epoxy to make chains and tabards and gave the templars a try before investing in fancier kits and the GW BT upgrade box. You could do something very similar with AoBR to get your feet wet.

 

Also, I wouldn't put too much pressure on yourself with regards to painting. One great thing about Black Templars is....the primary color is black. Black power armor and white shoulder pads look pretty damn cool even before adding technical details IMO.

 

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[Honda]

Welcome Brother!

 

As stated above, the AoBR is a good deal for a number of reasons. Also keep in mind that you can get conversion bits that will allow you to modify and convert some to add a little variety to your early purchases.

 

As far as painting goes, if you've been doing military modeling (that's how I got started in wargaming lo' those many years ago) you'll find that many of the same techniques are usable for your troops and vehicles, so don't feel like you have to relearn everything.

 

Also, the Tutorial section in the Painting section is full of amazing information, not the least of which is how to paint black. :D

 

I'm looking forward to seeing your army progress.

 

Cheers,

[tvih]

Don't look too poorly on the marines that come with AoBR! With the new rules set shooty marines are becoming more viable. And if your painting skill is truly undeveloped you don't need fancy shmancy models to start with. I have many "regular" marines in my army... Plus if you don't need the orks, trade em for more marines! Start small and work your way up. The best way to figure out what's best for you is to play games and grow based on what best suits your style, fixes your weakness, or just looks cool! Good luck, and may your crusade be eternal!

Yeah, I've read as much, but the "problems" seem to be going beyond the armament for the marines! I reckon the Orks will stay, 'cause my brother will need something to fight me with. Plus if I ever gather a non-SM army, it'll be the Orks. Not really very interested in the other armies by comparison.

 

Oh and as for the armament, I think I like close quarters better. Pistol + melee weapon is such a cool combo ;) Regular bolter rifle thingie is kinda boring, on the other hand. And I don't know if mixing ranged and close quarters forces too much is a great idea?

 

Also, I wouldn't put too much pressure on yourself with regards to painting. One great thing about Black Templars is....the primary color is black. Black power armor and white shoulder pads look pretty damn cool even before adding technical details IMO.

That's one of the initial reasons I took interest in the Black Templars, which was then further enhanced by the lore and such!

 

As stated above, the AoBR is a good deal for a number of reasons. Also keep in mind that you can get conversion bits that will allow you to modify and convert some to add a little variety to your early purchases.

But as far as I can tell the problem is in applying the conversion bits - like those in the chapter upgrade; shoulder pads etc - to the AoBR marines, since the marines are made up of relatively few parts? Given my lack of experience, I'm not really that comfortable with the thought of mutilating the figures to make extra pieces fit!

 

As far as painting goes, if you've been doing military modeling (that's how I got started in wargaming lo' those many years ago) you'll find that many of the same techniques are usable for your troops and vehicles, so don't feel like you have to relearn everything.

 

Only made a couple of models, the rest are indeed unopened because of the lack of painting success with those I did attempt, heh. But I've got some new tricks up my sleeve so hopefully I'll have at least some modest success this time around.

 

Also, the Tutorial section in the Painting section is full of amazing information, not the least of which is how to paint black. :D

Oh, I'll certainly be perusing various tutorials quite a bit once I get the figures and paints :)

Edited July 23, 2012 by tvih

[Castellan Alaric]

so as far as the AoBR is concerned, i'd say the dread IS usable (drop podding an old, angry, melta totting mountain of death into your opponents lines? YES) also, i use the terminators from that set as a staple in EVERY list i make (bordering on obsession i'm afraid) take 2 HK missiles from the first 2 vehicles you buy and BOOM 2x cyclone missile launchers, and now you have a squad that every armor piece in the game with cringe at! now, i haven't used the "captain" but once and don't use the bolter guys unless i need to fill my shooty squads out to 8, which has come up my last few games. shooting got a bit boost in 6th, so don't rule out the normal marine with a bolter :D use this forum for any questions on purchases, modeling, painting and gaming you have. it has been a great resource for me over the past year. feel free to check out crusade threads (mine's in my signature) and find some inspiration for your crusade!

 

No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! :lol:

[redmapa]

I use the captain as my EC but Ive been thinking about modding him into a chaplain and kitbashing myself a new champion..my crusade is mostly composed of AoBR models, they are a great way to start and if you happen to have spare pistols, arms and chainswords you can just mutilate the AoBR, change their arms and cover the mutilated torso with a tabard, thats what Im planning to do once I get the tabards (if the chaos codex sucks, because if its awesome then Im just going to use the AoBR models as alpha legionaires)

[tvih]

Ugh, at this rate I'll definitely be going for broke! :lol:

 

I was looking at all the bits and pieces needed again. As far as I can tell, a single Chapter Upgrade has in it the pieces to upgrade 10 "normal" marines, 5 terminators, a Land Raider, a Dreadnought and a Rhino. And of course some extra stuff in addition.

 

Therefore, to upgrade the contents of the Battleforce, one would need two Chapter Upgrades (to fully upgrade everything but the Scout-Neophytes, they haven't proven their upgrade-worthiness after all!). But even though I of course plan to get stuff like a Terminator Squad (I guess the Close Combat one would make the most sense for BTs?) and more vehicles later, I suppose some bits would be left unused. Not sure if buying only the bits I'd need would be much cheaper anyway though, at least factoring the possible later usage for the leftover parts.

 

Contemplating if I'm just content having all the Tactical, Combat and Assault marines be Initiates, or if there's enough parts to make some of them worthy of being "elites" like Sword Brethren or even an Emperor's Champion. Decisions, decisions. In general I suppose one could just go with the correct color-schemes and not worry about all the special chapter-specific bits, but somehow doing that would seem... heretically lazy. And I know I wouldn't be happy with that solution in the long term.

 

So, at this rate it'd be non-BT AoBR (I figure I need a rulebook and opposing force to get started with anyway, even if it is one edition out of date now), and for BTs a Battleforce and two Upgrades, just to get started. Not exactly cheap even at 20% off (which I can currently buy them at, although paying in installments will negate that benefit for the most part I reckon), especially as it's still a quite incomplete army. Unless I order a Dreadnought (and not use the AoBR one for BTs) and Terminator squad right from the get go. And then there's of course all the paints, Chaos Black primer spray being the only one I have in my shopping cart so far...

[Outlander]

Sadly my budget is also crippling but I've found great success with my 3 new best friends Ebay, Insta-mold and Greenstuff with a little bit of patience and luck I've found some great stuff for cheap and easily converted it by making some simple molds from the bits out of the BT upgrade kit. Tabards, Icons Even custom shoulder pads. You could easily convert the AoBR Marines by making some molds of BT shoulders Icons and tabards no need to cut up your current marines since the greensuff bends nicely and can be cut to fit you needs far more easily. I can post some pics and more detailed advice if you would like it.

[tvih]

I can post some pics and more detailed advice if you would like it.

That'd be very nice and much appreciated!

 

I'm probably going to finalize my order tomorrow, currently it looks like I'd be getting the Battleforce, AoBR, the two Chapter Upgrades and quite possibly the Terminator Squad depending on whether or not I think I can make the AoBR Terminators an acceptable conversion - a bit dubious since they're lacking in close quarters weapons as far as I can tell - unless I'd build both ranged and close combat squads, I guess. I mean, honestly I'm not sure what to do with such AoBR units that I wouldn't have in my BT army. Even if I'd paint them as Ultramarines instead, I'd probably never use them as there wouldn't be enough of them, and it seems unlikely I'll build two separate Space Marine chapters since I'd rather gather Orks instead as a secondary army (heresy!). But even the terminators aside, the non-BT heads, embossed arrow shoulder pads and such of the tactical marines admittedly bother me a bit! Having a mild OCD about such things kinda sucks ;)

 

I was indeed also considering the separate Dreadnought, but aside from the nasty cost I think it would be overkill for the time being considering I will only have the small Ork contingent to fight against in the near future anyway.

 

For the separate Terminator Close Combat Squad I was also thinking of the Forgeworld BT Storm shield set, but I suppose I might just use the stock shields. After all they're almost shaped like Templar Crosses anyway, so it should be "acceptable" - at least for now :)

[travisb7]

Before you start building, I will point out you don't HAVE to include ONLY Black Templar bits from the upgrade sprue. Instead of fully decking out each and every marine, put a couple of special bits on each. This makes the upgrade box last longer. Otherwise, you can buy just the bits you need from bit stores and ebay for under the cost of the upgrade box.

 

I'm going to work on a "N00bz Start Here" post for Templars this week since you mentioned we don't really have one, so watch for that.

 

I can post some pics and more detailed advice if you would like it.

That'd be very nice and much appreciated!

 

I'm probably going to finalize my order tomorrow, currently it looks like I'd be getting the Battleforce, AoBR, the two Chapter Upgrades and quite possibly the Terminator Squad depending on whether or not I think I can make the AoBR Terminators an acceptable conversion - a bit dubious since they're lacking in close quarters weapons as far as I can tell - unless I'd build both ranged and close combat squads, I guess. I mean, honestly I'm not sure what to do with such AoBR units that I wouldn't have in my BT army. Even if I'd paint them as Ultramarines instead, I'd probably never use them as there wouldn't be enough of them, and it seems unlikely I'll build two separate Space Marine chapters since I'd rather gather Orks instead as a secondary army (heresy!). But even the terminators aside, the non-BT heads, embossed arrow shoulder pads and such of the tactical marines admittedly bother me a bit! Having a mild OCD about such things kinda sucks ;)

 

I was indeed also considering the separate Dreadnought, but aside from the nasty cost I think it would be overkill for the time being considering I will only have the small Ork contingent to fight against in the near future anyway.

 

For the separate Terminator Close Combat Squad I was also thinking of the Forgeworld BT Storm shield set, but I suppose I might just use the stock shields. After all they're almost shaped like Templar Crosses anyway, so it should be "acceptable" - at least for now :)

[tvih]

Before you start building, I will point out you don't HAVE to include ONLY Black Templar bits from the upgrade sprue. Instead of fully decking out each and every marine, put a couple of special bits on each. This makes the upgrade box last longer.

I know, but since I'll have to shell out a lot of money regardless, I figure I might as well try to make the army a sight to behold while at it - if only I could paint to save my life! I figured I might also try making the AoBR figs some extra tabards from Green Stuff to add to their looks as well.

 

After adding in all the paints and some tools, my order total is almost three hundred... damn it :lol: Gotta try sleeping on the decision of whether I'll have to downsize or not.

[Urkh]

regarding the AoBR starter set: yes, the dread is easy to turn into black templar. for the bolter marines, i bought a devastator kit and put a lascannon+plasma gun guy with three AoBR bolter dudes. there was enough to make two of these squads, so that 6/7 of the bolter marines down. i still have the pieces to make plasma cannon guys (which i'm currently working on painting up), as an option for when i don't feel like bringing lascannons. as for their shoulder pads, it's really easy to just take your hobby knife and shave off the arrows. you can either put on BT decals or make the crosses out of greenstuff and molds like other players have.

 

as for the terminators, their arms are push-pin into the chest, so if you just buy some assault marine arms and glue them on, you magically have assault marines, and since you're buying the upgrade set, you already have shoulder pads for them. likewise, you can do the x2 hunter killer missiles and make them CML terminators, which every single armylist you make should have.

 

I've seen some really good conversions done with the captain. his arms are pretty easy to take off, and if you feel like chopping off the shoulders from other arms, you can easily give him any weapon set you want.

 

Having a mix of shooting and close combat marines is a good idea to have. it's very good to soften up your opponent with shooting before charging in. i currently have x2 las/plas 5 man squads and a 5 man x2CML terminator squad in my crusade, and they work amazingly every time.

 

hope this helps!

[Outlander]

You can find some Nicely detailed videos on youtube for more on greenstuff/insta mold but here's a quick rundown of AoBR Marine BT conversion.

Step 1. Have your insta-mold and bits you need ready.

Step 2. soak Insta-mold in very hot water, wait till soft then press in bit and wait for it to set (insta mold sets quickly should be ready in 30 secs).

Step 3. Push greenstuff into mold (make sure your fingers are wet or greenstuff will stick to you).

Step 4. for Icons i usally let it sit overnight before taking it out of the mold but for Tabards I take them out at 4-6 hours since the mold is set in them but they haven't finished fully curing yet so are easily formed/bent to fit your marines.

Step 5. cut off excess greenstuff and glue to Marine

Now I would go just for the lower part of the tabard for marines but you can do a full tabard. For doing a full tabard you need to cut/file off the icons from the chest and for a little extra templarness you can easily cut a gun from BT upgrade to fit AoBR marines.

Now the model I Used here is a little messy since he just had stuff tacked to him and not really cut to fit since they are gonna be used in my army but here's a terminator all done up with greenstuff Icons/tabard and some freehand work for a much better example of what you can do.

[tvih]

You can find some Nicely detailed videos on youtube for more on greenstuff/insta mold but here's a quick rundown of AoBR Marine BT conversion.

Thanks! Seems like versatile stuff, I'll definitely get a packet of Mold at some point.

 

Also placed the order, ended up taking the whole shebang - AoBR, Battleforce, 2x Chapter Upgrade, Terminator CC squad, BT Codex and a hundred's worth of paints and supplies. With luck I'll have everything except the Chapter Upgrades (which are backordered) on Thursday or Friday, but unluckily I won't be home for the weekend! Should have something to show for all this text spam next week, though :P

 

EDIT: Also ordered 100 magnets today to magnetize up to 25 figures to make weapon-swapping easier. Shouldn't be too difficult to install them, after all, and it seems quite handy to have swappability especially with some figures.

Edited July 25, 2012 by tvih

[Kastor Krieg]

You can find some Nicely detailed videos on youtube for more on greenstuff/insta mold but here's a quick rundown of AoBR Marine BT conversion.

Thanks! Seems like versatile stuff, I'll definitely get a packet of Mold at some point.

 

Also placed the order, ended up taking the whole shebang - AoBR, Battleforce, 2x Chapter Upgrade, Terminator CC squad, BT Codex and a hundred's worth of paints and supplies. With luck I'll have everything except the Chapter Upgrades (which are backordered) on Thursday or Friday, but unluckily I won't be home for the weekend! Should have something to show for all this text spam next week, though :cuss

 

EDIT: Also ordered 100 magnets today to magnetize up to 25 figures to make weapon-swapping easier. Shouldn't be too difficult to install them, after all, and it seems quite handy to have swappability especially with some figures.

Laudable dedication, Battle Brother! Now off on a Crusade, kill me some xenos, heretic and a witch or two, please :lol:

[tvih]

Stuff arrived today (minus the Upgrades and a couple of paints). Such torture that I have to go away for the weekend! Will take the mini-rulebook and codex with me to read a bit though :)

 

Funnily the instructions for Combat Squad weren't included at all in the Battleforce. Heresy! ;) Ah well, doesn't really matter I guess, given that the only thing that really benefits from instructions is the Rhino.

 

By the way, is there any particular signifigance to the type of shoulder pad that has the "studs", as seen in the Sternguard models? I was wondering since there are some of those included as optional bits. Also there was this one extra bit for the Terminator CC Squad (if I recall correctly) that I couldn't figure out, by I guess I'll have plenty of time after the weekend.

[Brother Ulkesh]

Hello.

 

There's nothing special about the studded (mark 6) shoulderpad - it's just there to add a bit of variety to your models. The modern background says that most marines wear armour made up of different marks, which have been handed down from fallen brothers over the centuries.

 

Which bit in the terminator set is confusing you? If it looks like a small lamp-post, it's a teleport homing device.

[tvih]

There's nothing special about the studded (mark 6) shoulderpad - it's just there to add a bit of variety to your models. The modern background says that most marines wear armour made up of different marks, which have been handed down from fallen brothers over the centuries.

Alrighty, good to know for certain, that's what I suspected.

 

Which bit in the terminator set is confusing you? If it looks like a small lamp-post, it's a teleport homing device.

Ah, that's it I reckon.

 

-

 

I couldn't resist "dry-assembling" one member of each squad (and the vehicles) from the AoBR set already. I had honestly forgotten how much filing/cutting plastic miniature kits require... sigh! I always fear I'll overdo it and damage the model :P Aside from that the tactical squad's weapons don't seem to recess enough towards the body for some reason. Meh. Liking the terminator pieces a lot more for how it fits without filing etc. But at least I managed to get rid of the tactical arrow in the shoulder with better success than expected (unless painting it reveals it's not smooth enough after all...).

 

The Dread also came together nicely, though I'm a bit baffled as to why the base didn't have a pre-drilled hole like the others do. Not that it's hard to remedy.

 

EDIT: Still unsure how to handle the chapter icons in the shoulders of the AoBR models - and well, possibly in some of the Battleforce ones too, if I don't use Upgrade pieces for all of them. There are the transfers which would require messing around with gloss and matte coatings for a good result but would give good, accurate crosses. And then there's freehand painting, which would probably be a disaster with my (lack of) painting skills. Could try using a "cutout" template through which to paint, but I'm not sure if that'd work for such a small object when it's not flat. And then there's the Instant Mold method I suppose, to copy the embossed pattern from the Chapter Upgrade shoulders. But I don't know when I can get the mold.

Edited July 27, 2012 by tvih

[Krikey]

I'm jealous. I love the feeling of buying models for a new army and assembling the first few!

 

Edit:

.

And then there's the Instant Mold method I suppose, to copy the embossed pattern from the Chapter Upgrade shoulders. But I don't know when I can get the mold.

 

If you're careful, you can actually make a mold out of green stuff. Just use a little oil (olive oil works well) to provide a nonstick surface. I do that a lot for shoulder pads -- I made a little green stuff stamp with a handle and everything.

 

~K

Edited July 28, 2012 by Krikey

[tvih]

The AoBR marines are mostly prepared now... I say "mostly" because it seems every time I look at a model I supposedly already assembled and fully prepared, I notice a million seams/flash-things/other things I still need to file/cut into submission :P Also no optional bits yet. Though I think I'm gonna try making a tabard thingamabob out of green stuff later today.

 

I hope I get the Chapter Upgrades as soon as possible so I can get to planning the other models and their upgrade bits too (and then paint 'em). Really ought to get the mold stuff soon as well, otherwise I suppose I can't paint the models for which I intend to put green stuff shoulder icons etc on (which, I suppose, is pretty much every AoBR model!). I might try making a mold out of green stuff as Krikey suggested if I get too impatient, though! But in either case I need the Upgrades first so that I have the bits I need to make molds of.

[Brother Darklight]

Welcome to the Eternal Crusade, Brother!

 

A note on the chapter upgrade box. I think I have 3 of them total for my entire crusade thus far. I've got ~50 Initiates, 10 assault initiates, 10 Assault Terminators, a handful of Marshals and Chaplains, and I've STILL got tons of bits to spare. Giving maybe one BT shoulder pad and just the blank one that comes with the Tac Marines on the other shoulder can really stretch the use of the upgrade boxes, and still give a nifty visual.

 

Using a rather minimalist usage can get you results like This

 

(There's some before and after images in there, but that's a good chunk of my Initiates and a Command Squad)

Edited July 30, 2012 by Brother Darklight

[tvih]

Here's the tabard on the AoBR terminator that was the first infantry I assembled (right after the Dread), so I reckon it's only just that he gets the first custom bit, too:

http://www.tvih.net/stuff/wh40k/terminator-tabard1.jpg

 

Not too terrible for a first attempt, though the horizontal creases at the kneeline I'm not really happy with, they were an unfortunate side effect of the damn thing sticking too heavily to the surface I was working on (despite all advised precautions), and couldn't get it to go back "just right" (and didn't want to start all over again either)... oh well! Also the tabard + purity seals are quite thick at the waist attachment points, but couldn't see a way around that, really.

 

Now I just hope the thing won't break when it hardens :P

Edited July 30, 2012 by tvih

[tvih]

Some example attempts of shouldery things:

 

http://www.tvih.net/stuff/wh40k/terminator-shoulders1.jpg

 

The damned skull... can't help thinking it looks childish, but not enough skill to make it more detailed. Which is why I didn't put one on the second shoulder. Termies and skulls seem to go hand in hand though, so doesn't seem like a proper termie shoulder without it. Crosses don't have the indents at the tips either because I'd just mess 'em up most likely at this point (who knows, still might try it though). The crusader seal sort of thing is the first one I made after the tabard, and while it looks slightly better in person than in the pic, I reckon I'll paint it before deciding whether to leave it on or not (it's detached at the moment).

[tvih]

Meh, considering just using the decals for the AoBR marine shoulders at this point. I just can't seem to consistently make small enough yet good-looking crosses - which I'd technically need 20 of just for the Tactical Squad - and such out of green stuff (such a tricksy substance...), at least not without Insta Mold or such which I probably can't get within the next month. Then again I've always had notoriously bad success with decals, stickers and all those kinds of things, as well :wacko: