Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Ok, thanks brothers, I think I'll try the third Tactical Squad in a pod tomorrow -- and remember my dice this time !!!! I have actually quite enjoyed my tactical marines. With the furious charge they really are a multipurpose unit since they are a (mild) threat in close combat with the +1 Str. Now, what's better in the pod? Combi-plasma/plasma, combi-flamer/flamer, or meltagun (sadly no combi-melta because I don't have one modelled)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4689482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 Alright, so I did the battle today ... I'll to the TL;DR version first. Overall, I liked the Golden Host. It would be amazing with Dante, but the Sanguinor was okay. My major problem was that I made some major (one might say "bigly") tactical/deployment errors with the SG and learned the hard way (a) how much more breakable they are without a Sanguinary Priest and (b ) be more mindful of what enemy stuff can do. I'm going to do some tweaks but think I will, indeed, take a version of this list to the tournament. Now the full version: Rough army lists: ANGELS SORROWFUL The Sanguinor 5 Sanguinary Guard, 1 inferno pistol, 2 axe, 3 sword, death masks 5 Sanguinary Guard, power first, death masks Death Company Chaplain 5 Tactical Marines, plasma, combi-plasma, LasPlas Razorback 5 Tactical Marines, meltagun, TLLC Razorback 5 Tactical Marines, heavy flamer, combi-flamer, Drop Pod w/ Homing Beacon 5 Death Company, jump packs, power fist 5 Devastators, 2x gravcannon w/ grav amp, Rhino BIEL-TAN ELDAR Farseer Karandras 8 Shining Spears + 1 Exarch 5 Windrider Jetbikes 5 Rangers 5 Rangers 5 Striking Scorpions + 1 Exarch 5 Warp Spiders + 1 Exarch 3 Dark Reapers + 1 Exarch 5 Fire Dragons +1 Exarch in Wave Serpent This list was in theory a softer list than the one I fought before, however I honestly believe my list would have done better against his previous list, but moreover, as I noted above I made some fairly critical errors as we shall see. We tried to play an Astronomi-con scenario from my memory of two years ago ... a mission where there are six supply crates and whoever holds the most crates at the end of the game wins, basically. The crates behave similar to relic as far as I could remember, so a unit with a hand can pick it up if they get into base-to-base contact. The supply crates can be moved, but are dropped if the unit charges in the assault phase. Vanguard Strike deployment. DEPLOYMENT: He deployed one unit of scouts in the top right ruins, and the Wave Serpent as shown. Deployed Striking Scorpions behind the central hill. His farseer was deployed with Dark Reapers just below the top-right ruins. He held his Warp Spiders in reserve. My first mistake was on deployment. I held the Devastators in reserve when what I should have done was deploy them along with the Razorbacks. My thought was that I could actually use the Devastators this way, but all I really did was deny myself their firepower and have them arrive in a less than ideal location later on. I also forgot about all his infiltrators, although there isn't must I could have done about it. Either way, I deployed the tactical squads in their Razorbacks with lots of cover as shown, with the Death Company taking cover behind them. He infiltrated the second scout squad to the ruins in the top-left, and then infiltrated the Shining Spears thanks to Karandras. TURN 1: His Shining Spears shot at my Razorbacks then retreated with that sneaky move that Eldar can do in their shooting phase (battle focus I believe it's called). His Wave Serpent also fired at the Razors. All he did was knock on hull point of the LasPlas Razorback. His Dark Reapers moved to grab a supply crate. Otherwise fairly uneventful first turn for him. At the start of my turn (as pictured above) the Drop Pod with the tacticals came down near the Rangers/Dark Reapers in the top right. The Razorbacks advanced towards the Shining Spears and I opted to move the Death Company towards the Striking Scorpions and the crate in the centre (probably a mistake, in hindsight I think I should have gone towards the Shining Spears). In my shooting phase, the Tactical Marines killed three Dark Reapers, leaving only the Exarch and the Farseer. The Razorbacks fired their lascannons at the Shining Spears who had Karandras out front put two wounds onto Karandras. At the end of Turn 1 things looked like this: * * * TURN 2: Top of turn 2, his Windriders show up around the middle, and his Warp Spiders arrived from reserve as well and he deploys them near the Tactical Marines with the combi-flamer/heavy flamer who came out of the pod. In movement phase he moved forward again with the Shining Spears with Karandras in tow and the Striking Scorpions move into the central ruins to grab a supply crate. In the shooting phase things start to go very ill for the Angels Sorrowful. Combined shooting from the Rangers, Shining Spears, Wave Serpent and Windriders glance-to-death/wreck both Razorbacks and kill all but two tactical marines of one squad. The combined shooting of the other Ranger squad, plus Warp Spiders, plus Farseer psychic stuff and Dark Reapers wipe out the Tactical Squad that dropped with the pod. He doesn't assault anything. On my turn, the Devastators show up and drive (in their borrowed Death Company Rhino) onto the board around the centre and toward the central ruins. I decide to bring the Golden Host onto the board and here was my second and most fatal tactical error. Fearful of the Fire Dragons and not trusting that I could wreck their Wave Serpent then assault the goodness inside, I foolishly deployed the 2x inferno pistol squad near the Shining Spears. I then, using the homing beacon on the drop pod, brought down the Sanguinor and the other SG squad right on top of the Warp Spiders. In hindsight, I think I should have deployed all of them to the top right where I could have overwhelmed and wiped out everything up there. I should have tried for the fire dragons too I think -- two inferno pistols and three angelus bolt guns hitting the rear 10 armour should have stood a decent chance of wrecking it. I could have destroyed it in assault for sure and the Fire Dragons would then kill one SG squad but retribution would be close at hand. To counter me he'd have to move his bikes over and leave Karandras stranded on foot. Alas, this is not what I did. The SG came down as you saw. The Death Company jumped into the central ruins for a short charge. In the shooting phase the Devastators opened-up on the Striking Scorpions who went to ground but still lost two of their number. The SG near the Shining spears killed three of them with inferno pistol/Angelus fire. In the assault phase the one SG squad made mincemeat of the Warp Spiders, despite the fact that my opponent rolled lights-out on overwatch and killed two SG on the way in. The Sanguinor Heroically failed his 6" charge at the farseer. The other SG squad then charged in and got massacred by Karandras. If he hadn't been in there I would have beaten the tar out of those Eldar though. This was just dumb on my part. I knew Karandras had AP2 and insane initiative plus lots of attacks. I'm not sure what I was thinking. One SG was left after that combat. The Death Company brutally annihilated the Striking Scorpions. Death Company with a DC Chaplain are absolutely brutal. TURN 3: This is how things looked at the beginning of the turn, and here is where things started unravelling for me. He didn't move much, other than scooting his Wave Serpent over to deploy Fire Dragons near the 3 SG who had consolidated behind the building trying to get as far away as possible after wiping the Warp Spiders in one combat phase. In the shooting phase, he shot my Death Company off the table between his Windriders and Rangers (I rolled pretty terrible but he also rolled a lot of rending). Then shot the SG off the table with the Fire Dragons. In close combat Karandras finished off the last SG in his combat. Things looked like this after his turn: By my turn, I had previous little left. But I knew the end of the game was nearing. We were playing with a 2 hour limit to simulate tournament play. I raced the Devastators over to the supply crate near the hill (you can see a servo skill token right of the central ruins) and popped smoke, planning to grab the crate on turn 4. The Sanguinor moved in for a 2" charge on the farseer and surviving Dark Reaper. The surviving two Tactical Marines made a beeline for the crate near their wrecked Razorback. I had no shooting to do and in the assault phase the Sanguinor assaulted the Farseer and wiped him and the Dark Reaper exarch out with ease despite the fact that I forgot to reroll failed to hit and to wound rolls in the challenge with the Farseer. TURN 4: In his turn 4, Karandras broke off from the Shining Spears and grabbed a supply crate. The Shining Spears then zoomed ahead to deal with my Tactical Marines. His other stuff shuffled around a bit but nothing could get within range to grab any more crates, although he did than annoying assault phase free move Eldar have with his Shining Spears to nab a second crate for himself. In the shooting phase he blasted my two tacticals off the map and tried very hard to kill the Sanguinor but thanks to Eternal Warrior and a bit of dice luck, he survived with one wound left. In my turn 4, I moved the Devastators to the central ruins and grabbed a crate. The Sanguinor grabbed the crate that the Devastators had driven near to, since I had tried to get the Sanguinor as far from the Fire Dragons as possible after he killed the Farseer. Final tally, 2 supply crates each for a draw: Officially this was a draw. I forget how Astro battle points work, but we would have split the primary points pool due to the draw. Secondaries vary from mission to mission, but we both had Slay the Warlord (my DC chaplain was warlord in hopes of rolling a decent trait which I didn't ... probably wiser to keep the 3 wound Eternal Warrior as my Warlord). He had first blood from wiping a tactical squad and its Razorback turn 2. Neither of us had linebreaker. So despite the carnage he inflicted on my force, this was actually a very narrow victory only for the Eldar on objectives. THOUGHTS: As noted at the first, I think I like this list better than the others I've tried so far. Maybe it was because he had a less brutal list, but maybe also because I just love me my SG and to be nearly guaranteed to get the charge with them is definitely my cup of tea. I think my issues in this mission were caused a lot more by some poor decisions on my part than by a poor list. That said, I am not feeling the love for the drop pod. It just seems like a fairly expensive suicide squad. On the Astra Militarum forum people often complain about Scion suicide squads but they are cheaper than tacticals or a Fragioso in pod, all of which seem to die after their alpha strike. I am inclined to go back to my original iteration of this list which included (heresy!) DC in a rhino, scouts, and grav bikers in place of the jump DC and tacticals in pod. If I'm totally honest, I think a third tac squad in Razorback would be better than rhino DC but thanks to my stubborn adherence to the fluff, the Angels Sorrowful must always have a DC unit because they are too ravaged by the flaw. So DC in a rhino will be somewhat like a quasi third tactical squad but with more staying power and insanity. Grav bikes are grav bikes and always useful. The scouts in this mission could have infiltrated to grab one of the more "remote" supply crates that were a bit away from the action, or could have challenged the Striking Scorpions perhaps. I wish there were some way to avoid the HQ tax ... with the Golden Host I have as much HQ as I want with the Sanguinor. I guess otherwise my options are foot Chaplain for the Rhino DC ... Librarian (but where would I put him??) ... or Sanguinary Priest (seems like waste). I guess if I had the time/inclination a Sanginary priest on bike with the grav bikes might be cool but my whole goal would be cheapest possible HQ. Anyways, as always I'd welcome any comments or criticism the brethren can offer! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4690612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 ... no thoughts on the battle? Here's what I'm thinking for my next list: The Sanguinor 5 Sanguinary Guard, 2 inferno pistol, 2 axe, 3 sword 5 Sanguinary Guard Librarian 5 Tactical Marines, plasma, combi-plasma, LasPlas Razorback 5 Tactical Marines, meltagun, TLLC Razorback 5 Scouts, camo cloaks, power sword 5 Death Company, 4 bolters, 1 power axe and bolt pistol, Rhino* 4 Bikes, 2 grav guns 5 Devastators, 2x gravcannon w/ grav amp, Rhino Took a librarian as the cheapest HQ with at least some marginal use (a sanguinary priest would be pretty useless in this list, riding in a rhino with tactical marines). I'm not totally happy with it, but it will at least give me some token anti-psyker abilities and maybe he can help out with the longevity of one of the tactical squads. Any ideas on what discipline I should take? * I know it's heresy, but I'm going to try it to see how it works. I'll basically treat them as slightly more expensive tactical marines, but with staying power and the ability to counter assault. As noted previously my stubborn adherence to self-imposed fluff rules means I need some DC and I feel the need for a fourth Rhino. Plus the jump DC seem to get shot off the table whereas inside a box they may last a bit longer. They're more of a distraction unit anyway in this list -- the Golden Host is the close combat show. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4692408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Do you find you get your money back from the weapons upgrades? Might be worth keeping an eye on that in games and if the answer is no spending those points on more bodies to make squads more resilient..? As for pods, I've found them very useful for dropping on objectives. Your opponent has to dedicate firepower to remove them (saving your more expensive / useful units from that firepower), and being AV12 all around they can't get to easily popped A10 rear armour as they can with Razors and Rhinos. Just some food for thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4692803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BossSauce Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I feel it's a good list, Ive never played with the golden host so I can't give a while lot of feedback besides why not spread the inferno pistols around two squads? Also there is just a random close combat scout squad, are they going to play a counter attack role while camping on an objective or outflank and try to sneak up on some long range firepower? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4692836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 @LutherMax: Yeah, body count is a bit of an issue with this list ... but at 1500 points and bringing the Golden Host this is to a degree unavoidable. As noted, I'd sure like it if I didn't have to bring a second HQ because I feel like that librarian is 65 points that would be much better spent on more bodies (could almost get another 5 tactical marines). I think I've actually been fairly conservative on wargear/upgrades. But just to break-down the wargear and what gets its value back: Power fist and death masks on the Sanguinary Guard have proven largely useless, but I already cut them out of the list Inferno pistols on the Sanguinary Guard -- I found them to be better than I thought last game, they killed two Shining Spears anyway which is more than I can say for the SG themselves. My big error was not having the confidence to try shooting down the Fire Dragons' Wave Serpent (really, I should have been able to -- 2x Str 8 plus 6 Str 4 shots to rear AV 10 armour should have at least glanced it to death; but I also should have fired my Razorbacks turn 1 at the 'Serpent rather than at Karandras I think to ensure it was already weakened). So I think they're worth keeping. Razorbacks have underperformed, and if I could go back in time I'd build Rhinos (or at least not glue the Razorback hatches on so I could switch) and bring more tactical marines. The difference in price between a LasPlas Razorback and a Rhino is 40 points, which is good for about 3 tactical marines. HOWEVER, I don't see any way to undo this in time for the tournament. As for the Razors, I do think the 20 points for LasPlas/TLLC upgrade is worth it. Those weapons have done something every game, only problem is they are always dead by turn two so I only get one phase of shooting out of them. Tactical Marine weapons upgrades -- My tacticals keep dying to fast to get a feel, save my very first game when they proved their worth so I'll keep. Biker Grav Guns -- haven't had them survive long enough to use their weapons the only game I've brought them so far, but without them I don't really see the point of bikers. Grav Cannons - The Devastators are nothing without their grav cannons. Despite their price, they seem well worth it. They did some nice damage to the Striking Scorpions, perhaps too much as my DC then wiped them and were sitting ducks for shooting. Scout camo cloaks and power sword -- the sword may be a bit wasteful, but the one time I used them it proved useful. Cloaks keep them alive. DC Power axe - extremely useful the last time I brought this unit. Total points spent on upgrades = 270 points. That's actually not a whole lot. I think if I really cut things to the bone, the only realistic stuff to cut would be Sgt. Tarcisius' combi-plasma, the scouts' power sword, and maybe the SG inferno pistols ... that's only 45 points. Two more bikers? I think I'd rather have the goodies. @BossSauce: Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what I'll do with the Scouts. Maybe I need a better plan or to cut them out in favour of something else. I just like the idea of having them as a "backup" unit that can grab objectives, give some unexpected close-combat punch, infiltrate or outflank as needed. Astronomi-con seems to have a fair number of missions where you only get to deploy a small part of your force and rest come in as reserves so it seemed a decent way to spend those last points. I think I may just have to take the list out for a spin and see how it does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4693070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 I played another game today -- this time using an official Astronomi-con mission since the organizers sent me a "sampler" package -- and had a blast. Plus, my army did quite well, kicked lots of Eldar butt. I think I am pretty close to a final list, and this may in fact be my final list: The Sanguinor 5 Sanguinary Guard, 2 inferno pistol, 2 axe, 3 sword 5 Sanguinary Guard Librarian 5 Tactical Marines, plasma, combi-plasma, LasPlas Razorback 5 Tactical Marines, meltagun, TLLC Razorback 5 Scouts, camo cloaks, power sword 5 Death Company, 4 bolters, 1 power axe and bolt pistol, Rhino* 4 Bikes, 2 grav guns 5 Devastators, 2x gravcannon w/ grav amp, Rhino Overall, everything performed nicely for the most part. The Bikes got blasted off the table by Dark Reapers before they could do anything, and the Scouts got knocked the out by Striking Scorpions, but you can't expect every unit to perform every game and against Eldar, something is going to get shot off the table before it can do anything useful. I think I will keep the bikes because enough jump pack ASM to have any staying power would cost more than the bikes would. The Golden Host were real champs again this game. One Sanguinary Guard squad in particular destroyed a 10 elf Dire Avengers Squad (after eating their fire like champs) plus farseer, killed 9/10 Warp Spiders in one squad, nuked a Wave Serpent with their Inferno pistols, and kept the centre of the board tied-down. The Sanguinor did pretty good too. He single-handedly beat-down a Windrider Squad, then smoked the Striking Scorpions like a cheap cigar. He did, however, proceed to get gunned down by 5 Fire Dragons. I'm a little iffy on the Grav Devastators but honestly they didn't have many targets this game since most of the stuff they'd be best against was tied-up in close combat with SG and they were left chipping away hull points on vehicles (which they did okay at). I actually quite liked the Rhino Death Company. They arrived late (turn 3 -- the mission we played required that all units start in reserve except infiltrators and a "lost patrol" who is trying to get back to friendly lines), so this mitigated their effeciveness. However, being inside a fast Rhino helped them get involved faster than if they had jump packs I think. They went flat out turn three, moved another six and disembarked turn 4, then charged and horribly butchered a Ranger squad (only target left in the area thanks to SG) turn 5. The one unit I'm iffy on is the lone squad of scouts. They did feel a bit ... random. Rest of the army is in fast Rhinos/Razorbacks and jump packs. Having infiltrators has its uses though. I set them up mostly as a screen this game to prevent my opponent from getting any of his infiltrators anywhere near my lost patrol. So they accomplished that. If I didn't bring them I guess I would either buy a MM attack bike for the bike squad or maybe two plasma pistol DC for the DC squad to give it a bit of shootiness. Third option might be to go 8 ASM with 2 melta and lightning claw instead of bikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4697053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Thanks for the report, very interesting! Glad to hear things worked out better this time – that SG squad in particular certainly earned their crust! I'm trying out the Golden Host in my next game, but I need to paint them and two Rhinos first! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4697472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Sounds solid. The Inferno pistols in the SG seem to be really helping the lack of dedicated anti-tank, which is ace and really shows how powerful some of our unique stuff is. When you aren't using the DC as a premier assault force, having a Rhino isn't so bad... They're pretty much going to wipe out whatever they charge so having them in the back pocket is a nice clean-up crew. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4697498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 Thanks for the support brothers. I'll post a full batrep with pictures later today or tomorrow. I think I am starting to get the hang of using the Golden Host and have a feel for the Sanguinor's abilities especially. His lack of AP2 is really his biggest problem and ironically makes him bad at what he's supposed to excel at which is challenges against the big nasties in the enemy army. But he's fully capable of taking on MEQ units or bikes and if they have a sergeant or character attached to challenge so much the better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4697619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Yeah it's laughable he doesn't have an AP2 weapon – especially when you consider that's he's the same points cost as Celestine... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4697654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 As promised, here is the full battle report. My list was as above. His list (from memory) was: Farseer 9 Dire Avengers + Exarch in Wave Serpent (Farseer rides with them) 5 Rangers 5 Windriders w/ Scatter Lasers 3 Windriders w/ Shuriken Catapults 8 Warp Spiders + Exarch 4 Striking Scorpions + Exarch 4 Fire Dragons + Exarch in Falcon 3 Dark Reapers + Exarch 3 Dark Reapers + Exarch Mission: "The Lost Patrol" Astronomi-con custom mission. Description: "Your patrol is attempting to disengage from the enemy which is in pursuit. Evade enemy forces and get them back to your lines. Your commander is awaiting their report and your forces are moving in to hold off the enemy!" Special rules: *Lost Patrol – During deployment, you must select one unit of your choice as your Lost Patrol. If this unit has a unit type of Vehicles, Bikes and Jetbikes, Jump, Jet, Beasts, Cavalry, or has a dedicated transport that you want to deploy with them, all of these models are deployed entirely within 12” of the opponent’s board edge. If your Lost Patrol has a unit type of Infantry, Monstrous Creature, Walker, or Artillery, they are deployed entirely within 24” of the opponent’s board edge. Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, dedicated transports and any units which must start the game in Reserve cannot be selected as your Lost Patrol. NOTE: Your Warlord and any parent unit cannot be selected as your Lost Patrol. NOTE: No Independent Characters may be joined to your Lost Patrol during deployment. Objectives: PRIMARY OBJECTIVE You score Unit Points for destroying your opponent’s units. If at least one member of your Lost Patrol is within 12” of your home board edge at the end of the game and is not falling back, you score a bonus +300 Unit Points. +9 VP If you score 150 Unit Points more than your opponent. +5 VP If you score within 150 Unit Points of your opponent. +1 VP If you score 150 Unit Points fewer than your opponent. SECONDARY OBJECTIVES +2 VP If your Lost Patrol is within 2” of your Warlord at the end of the game. +1 VP If your opponent’s Lost Patrol is destroyed. +1 VP If none of your opponent’s units are within 24” of your table edge at the end of the game. +1 VP If you have a unit within 24” of your opponent’s boardedge. +1 VP If you are the first player to destroy one of your opponent’s units. DEPLOYMENT: My Warlord was by Librarian. He rolled the rampage warlord trait off the BA table, and I took BA powers because I never take psykers and didn't know what else to take and I have the BA cards so its convenient. He rolled Release Rage. I chose my 5-man Tactical Squad with meltagun in TLLC Razorback to be my lost patrol. He chose his Warp Spiders. We could only deploy our Lost Patrol and infiltrators. I deployed my patrol to the top left as close to my lines as allowed, ready to turbo boost towards home as fast as possible. He put his warp spiders in the bottom right with a similar plan. I used my Scouts to keep his infiltrators as far away from my patrol as possible. He deployed his Striking Scorpions behind some ruins near my board edge and Rangers in the ruins right of centre near his board edge: TURN 1: First turn was pretty quick. I ceded first turn to him. He used his warp generators to the maximum moving those Warp Spiders a good way across the board. His Scorpions moved towards my Scouts. In my turn, I went full-out with the Razorback and the Scouts, in BA fashion moved towards the Scorpions and did some ineffective shooting against the shrouded opponents. TURN 2: He rolled decent for reserves, bringing in some of his most important units. The Fire Dragons arrived in the top left with a nice rear-armour shot at my Razorback (I should have had that patrol driving in reverse Secret Service style). His Dire Avengers arrived in the middle and Scat Bikes halfway between the Dragons and Avengers. He also brought in one of the Dark Reaper squads who are next to the Wave Serpent behind the ruins: In the above pic he's already starting to move his Warp Spiders who moved towards the centre. Scat bikes moved for a nice side-shot on my Razorback. Scorpions moved in towards the scouts. In the shooting phase, between the Fire Dragons' Falcon and the Scat Bikes, he was just able to glance the Razorback to death. I deployed the squad out the back hatch, thinking that the bikes could ride them down anyway, so might as well go for glory and try killing the serpent with the meltagun and then assault the Dragons. Unfortunately, my dice failed me horribly on the pinning check and they were pinned! In the assault phase the Striking Scorpions charged in and killed my scouts before any of them could swing back (I think his Exarch may have even killed them all, after he killed one or two in shooting). End of his turn things looked like this: On my turn, the Golden Host arrived since I didn't even need to roll . Otherwise my reserve rolls were a bit lacklustre as only the other tactical squad (with Librarian onboard) and the Devastators arrived. I dropped the Sanguinor near the Scat bikes and he scattered even closer towards them for a perfect charge. I dropped the SG squad with inferno pistols nearby and they scattered a bit to the right just below the Warp Spiders. The second SG squad I dropped right next to his Dark Reapers with a "hit": In movement, the LasPlas Razorback moved forward 12". I moved the Devastators ahead 6" so they could shoot their grav cannons at the Scorpions. The pinned Lost Patrol sat there like idiots. The shooting phase was modest. Snapshot from pinned patrol did nought. Devastators killed two Scorpions. Lascannon on the Razor whiffed. I opted not to shoot with the SG not wanting to let the Warp spiders do their warp jump, or to accidentally kill anyone and deny a charge. The assault phase was pretty successful. The Sanguinor charged into the Scat Bikes, took no wounds, killed a few but left enough alive that he was still locked in combat and could not be shot. Same with the Inferno pistol SG who killed a few but not too many Warp Spiders who then failed their hit-and-run roll. The remaining SG squad horribly massacred the Dark Reapers and consolidated into the ruins nearby in hopes they could weather the expected shooting storm. At the end of my turn the board looked like this: TURN 3: He failed reserve roll on the remaining Dark Reaper squad. He didn't move much to start turn 3, although he did deploy the Fire Dragons and use battle focus to get them into prime firing range of my lost patrol Tac squad. Also deployed the Dire Avengers for their blade storm attack. In the shooting phase he fired everything he had at the SG quad in the ruins. They almost survived but he was able to kill off the last one with his last shot. The Fire Dragons killed everyone in the tac squad except the sergeant. In the assault phase, Sanguinor finished off the Scat Bikes, Inferno SG killed a few more Warp Spiders who successfully hit-and-run this time. At the end of his turn things looked like this: In my turn the Bikes and Death Company arrived. In movement phase I raced everyone forward as fast as they could go and moved the SG and Sanguinor into position for some charges. I think I screwed up consolidating the Sanguinor towards the Scorpions. I should perhaps have moved him towards the big developing melee in the centre to ensure the Warp Spiders died. But what was done was done. End of Movement Phase pic: In the assault phase Sanguinor assaulted the Striking Scorpions and the surviving SG squad multi-charged the Dire Avengers and Warp Spiders. Sanguinor killed-off the Striking Scorpions and the SG reduced the Warp Spiders down to the Exarch with 1 wound remaining and killed a bunch of Dire Avengers. In his psychic phase he had cast a spell to make everyone within 12" of the farseer fearless so they did not flee. The Tactical sergeant from the lost patrol attempted to charge the Fire Dragons but he was able to roll one overwatch hit and he evaporated. End of my turn things looked like this (Sanguinor is hidden behind the ruins to the left of the image): TURN 4: Not a lot of movement. His remaining Dark Reapers showed up. He moved his Falcon and imobilized it in difficult terrain. Not much other moving. Shooting phase blasted my bikers off the table and Fire Dragons gunned-down Sanguinor. SG killed off the last of the Dire Avengers leaving only the Farseer with one wound remaining: End of his turn things looked like this: My turn, the remaining tactical squad and Death Company moved forward and deployed ready to charge. Shooting was inconclusive. The Devastators immobilized the Wave Serpent but the 2+ cover save of the Rangers absorbed all the tacitical and DC shooting. End of turn looked like this: TURN 5: He basically took what he had left alive and ran away from the now blood-frenzied Angels Sorrowful. Clumped everything (including the Warp Spider Exarch who escaped thanks to the SG being locked up with the Farseer and my error with Sanguinor) into the top-left corner. In shooting, the Rangers shook the Devastator Rhino but they passed their Ld test. End of turn looked like this: In my turn I positioned tacticals and Death Company for the charge on the rangers. The LasPlas Razorback swung around to shoot the Falcon. In psychic phase the Librarian cast Unleash Rage on himself and the tactical squad. The SG moved close to the immobilized wave serpent for melta range on their pistols. In shooting phase they destroyed/blew up the Serpent. The LasPlas Razorback plus Devastators failed to finish-off the immobilized Falcon (partly because I forgot the grav-amp reroll). In close combat the Death Company horrible butchered the Rangers leaving the Tactical squad's unleashed Rage unrequited. Game ended because we were playing to the Astronomi-con two hour limit. Game was actually a draw. I killed about 1100 points worth of Eldar, and he had killed about 700 points worth of Angels Sorrowful. This would have been a victory for me except the 300 pt bonus he got for one member of his lost patrol still being alive, which brought him to within 150 unit points for the draw (I was up by 100 points). So we each scored 5 VP on primary. On secondary, he got +1 for first blood and +1 for destroying my lost patrol. I received +1 VP for none of my opponent’s units within 24” of your table edge at the end of the game and +1 VP for a unit within 24” of my opponent’s boardedge. So it was a true draw at 7-7 VP. If I had managed to kill off that last Warp Spider it would have been a pretty decisive victory for me. Overall I was very happy with how my army handled the mission. My opponent did a good job of keeping his lost patrol alive and definitely picked the right unit. I'm pretty happy with the list overall and feel that I'm starting to get the hang of using this list. As mentioned above, the only question I have remaining on list building is the scouts ... but I think I may just keep the list as-is. Army lists are due in two weeks but I probably won't have time to play another test battle before the deadline. Any thoughts on whether the scouts are worth keeping? I'm also thinking of trading their camo cloaks in for meltabombs on the bikes and an armorium cherub on the Devastators simply because this will gain me +1 composition point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4698361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted April 1, 2017 Author Share Posted April 1, 2017 Early WIP shot of my Sanguinor ... Plus a biker. So far this has been the most difficult and frustrating conversion I've ever done. I hope it works out looking okay. So far I'm not totally happy, but satisfied enough so as long as I don't make it any worse with the following stages it will be alright. Not exactly how I hoped it would turn out but should still be a nice centrepiece. Only three models to paint to be ready for the tournament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4700987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted April 1, 2017 Author Share Posted April 1, 2017 I couldn't wait until my evening hobby time and did a little more work ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Nice depiction - more 'ethereal' - as he is in the fluff! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted April 1, 2017 Author Share Posted April 1, 2017 Thanks Luther. I don't think my GS skills will be equal to the task of making that skinny C'Tan leg look more marine like. Fortunately my friend brought a librarian today and doesn't want the cherub so I think the Sanguinor is going to have a little winged friend added. Covering that leg will be the easy way out I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted April 1, 2017 Author Share Posted April 1, 2017 That skinny little leg is bothering me, and I really don't think I'll be able to make it look appropriately marine-line with green stuff. So, what do you do when you suck with green stuff? Add some more grimdark to hide the stuff that needs GS'ing! How do you guys think this looks: (his head is not yet glued in place so fear not, it will be straightened). I think it looks okay with the little cherub guy looking liked he's going on ahead of the Sanguinor. Then I just need to fill out his "hips" a bit (which I believe I can accomplish with my rubbish skills), and add some grenades and other BA themed bitz to cover up the worst of it. Think it looks okay? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Honestly? I'd try to file it away and take already existing legs and try to make them fit by cutting them down and adding greenstuff.Most of the waist and upper leg should be covered by the cloths already anyway. ;) Oh and I liked it more without the cherub and the skull bitz added. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted April 1, 2017 Author Share Posted April 1, 2017 Sadly, I don't have a SG leg to spare. The servo skull was necessary otherwise I would have gone mad trying to get the torso with wings to stick to the bottom half. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Sadly, I don't have a SG leg to spare. The servo skull was necessary otherwise I would have gone mad trying to get the torso with wings to stick to the bottom half. Take other legs. I really dislike the SG legs anyway. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted April 1, 2017 Author Share Posted April 1, 2017 I appreciate the feedback sfPanzer ... I'll think about it some more and see if I have a leg I can use (I think I do have a regular tactical marine set of legs or two as yet unused). I don't have a Dremel so shaving down that leg may be an adventure! Any others with thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Firewalker Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 The modified Sanguinor looks great! I love how dynamic the flowing robe/stand makes him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted April 2, 2017 Author Share Posted April 2, 2017 Thanks, Bjorn! While I think sfPanzer's suggestion of filing down the skinny C'Tan leg and putting in a cut-down marine leg would look better, when I think about how much time and effort that will take ... I think I'm going to stick with the cherub. It's not the ideal solution but it looks good enough and I kind of dig servo skulls and cherubim. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mapple Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 It looks good. Great job! Takes a vision to put that kind of kit bashing together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4701906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jønke Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Looks awesome. Very inspirering. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/259364-angels-sorrowful-wip-010417-update-sanguinor-wip/page/13/#findComment-4705497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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