Index Astartes: Basilisks

[Messor]

Index Astartes


The Basilisks Chapter

“To know that our eyes are upon them must cause our enemies to be paralyzed with fear, to acknowledge the immediacy of their mortal lives. To look upon our silent gaze, they must know death, swift and sure!”

-Asmodeus, 1st Serpent Lord

Origins

Meeting of Inquisitor Moisei and Master Kalis

“Many eyes have pried into the cloying shadows of that founding, Inquisitor. Few have found what they sought. Fewer still have emerged unscathed.”
The Inquisitor scoffed, but had no reply. The power armored giant chuckled again.
“Don’t let my words deter you. We have the utmost interest in your…findings”

O

f the many Chapters birthed from the darkness of the 21st founding, few proved successful, and many were even driven swiftly to extinction. Among the enduring 'Cursed' Chapters are the Basilisks. If they were created with a specific purpose, it remains unknown. Official observers have concluded that the Basilisks are of Iron Hands descent, attested to by their doctrine, and a timely submission of gene-seed tithes. Since the time they emerged from the void no records have followed to confirm this, or give any other clues regarding their origins…which isn’t to say that no one is looking. Multiple factions within the Imperium have, in the past, questioned both the legitimacy of the Chapter’s genetic material, and its loyalty to the Emperor. Some still do. The Basilisks have, with great effort, evaded most unwanted attention, though they are still dogged from sector to sector by one Inquisitor Moisei, who has long doubted how such ‘purity’ could have emerged from the 21st Founding. The Chapter avoids as much contact with these and other Imperial Forces as possible, remaining tight-lipped under whatever scrutiny the Inquisition attempts to pursue…which has done nothing to dissuade their detractors.

The Fleet

Final audiolog from the pirate frigate Sorento

“Is that a cruiser!? An Astartes cruiser!? You said the frigate was a Trader! Get us back to the fleet, now! Damn it all, is that another? Brace for im----”

T

o the knowledge of the Imperium and even the Basilisks themselves, they had no world of origin. Since they were first sighted plowing through the void, no marine has set foot planetside except to do battle. The fleet is extensive, and continually grows with the addition of captured ships. These include a startlingly high concentration of Battle Barges, which despite being of a younger and smaller caliber than the venerable vessels of the Heresy, are able to give significant body to the otherwise thinly spread Basilisk fleet. The Monastery Battle Barge Serpent's Tongue and its escort are found at the heart of the fleet, where they are best able to support any engagement, while the rest of the fleet is spread in a loose, coiling line across a vast stretch of space on either side and there is no consistent course or predictability to the fleet’s movements.

Constant communication is maintained from one end of the fleet to the other with as much accuracy as possible in an effort to allow fleet elements to redeploy for support as quickly as possible. The Chapter’s more frequent enemies, traitor fleets and pirates both human and xenos, have learned to attack or flee at the first sign of a Basilisk ship, as reinforcements are never far behind. In turn, the Basilisks have developed an expertise in rapid boarding actions as well as improved methods of defending smaller patrol fleets.

Recruitment

Survivors

The Apothecary’s expression was impassive as he dressed the recruit’s wounds, stemming the open flow of blood issuing from his arm and side, while the man lay still on the table. His eyes stared straight up, unmoving. He would survive his wounds, but whether or not hypnotherapy and conditioning could get him past the mental trauma remained to be seen. The Chaplain stood looking silently on for a long time, but finally revealed his purpose.
“Can you describe what you saw?”
The recruit flinched; the Chaplain had undone all his effort thus far to bury the last eight hours, but he did not change his gaze. Eventually, he slowly shook his head. The Chaplain appeared to be satisfied, and turned and began walking from the room.
“One final test awaits you,” The Chaplain stopped at the doorway, “Steel yourself. You will return to that ship again before your trial is over. If you are not ready, you will become what you now fear. To become one of us, you must know no fear.”
The neophyte sat bolt upright, heading snapping to the doorway, but the Chaplain had gone. Falling slowly back to the table as the Apothecary grumbled at replacing the newly torn wrappings. The recruit’s gaze returned to the ceiling. Back to the ship. One more time.

L

ike most Chapters of the Cursed Founding, the greatest challenge of the Basilisks is not victory in battle, but propagation. In order to maintain a flow of successful initiates, the Chapter takes suitable candidates en masse from liberated worlds. For the inhabitants of such worlds, it is the price paid for freedom, as the green clad Astartes move among them, claiming the choicest of their youth. No word of explanation is ever given and often the Basilisks leave a liberated world without the planet's inhabitants even knowing who they are. Few worlds visited by the Basilisks understand anything more about their visitation other than that they are purged of whatever heresy plagues them in return for however many children the marines choose to spirit away.

The trials faced by recruits are among the most lethal of tests employed by Space Marines, and despite taking large numbers of prospective initiates there are very few survivors. While the exact nature of the trials is unknown, the bodies of most failed neophytes are unceremoniously jettisoned into the void, and their occasional recovery by Inquisitor Moisei has long fueled his obsessive investigation. Some of these corpses appear to have been pierced by the fangs of some great maw, others torn by man made weapons, and still others show signs of both. These aren’t unusual fates among Astartes recruits, but they do indicate that the Basilisks house some sort of creature for these trials, though no one has ever observed the Basilisks collecting any such specimens. The Chapter keeps a fairly large body of serfs, but they are maintained at a distant arms length, usually assigned to the support of ships in the fleet rather than working with battle brothers. This is the most fortunate fate to befall unfit recruits, while the dregs are augmented or turned into servitors to assist the Techmarines in their considerable work.

Combat Doctrine

Day 16 of the Wailing Portent Campaign

For two days the rangers of Iybraesil had lain in wait, assured by the Farseer that the humans would pass this way with minimal support. While Ynarana’s banshees were too important to set aside for days at a time, they would arrive in time to mop up. Mendor and his squad were beginning to shift into ready positions as the appointed time came close, sliding the barrels of their long rifles over ledges amid the debris of the ruins, sighting down the only clear path through the area.

Minutes passed, then hours. Mendor began to stretch, and sniffed as a strange scent reached his nose. He had turned part way toward the source when he felt his muscles seize up, his eyes catching sight of a small canister on the ground nearby. He couldn’t move. The ground crunched heavily beside him, but he couldn’t turn to look. What came into view first was Ynarana’s head, jaw slack, eyes sightlessly staring, hair caught in the gauntleted fist of a Space Marine. The green armored figure crouched down.

“Expecting someone, witch-kin?” Issued the voice from the helmet, then the figure straightened up and Mendor saw the free hand reach for him and felt the grip on the back of his neck, pulling him easily off his feet, “Worry not. We will keep you company. We can discuss the location of your webway gates.”

A

All of the Basilisks most significant actions have either been ship to ship boarding maneuvers, or targeted at planetside orbital defenses, usually aimed at creating a beachhead for other Imperial forces. The Basilisks don’t wait for support, and the forces these beacheads are intended for are usually days or even weeks behind. The Chapter has become adept at creating large, defensible groundside footholds, and loyalist forces descending on a world visited by the Basilisks will often find well stocked defenses waiting for them, though the Chapter itself is frequently gone by then.

The Basilisks are extremely well suited to fighting in the cold confines of dying capital ships, as well as the shadow-pocked, rubble strewn, urban battlefields of hive worlds. Indeed, they seem to prefer such restrictive environments. On a larger scale, the fleet of the Basilisks feels like an omnipresent threat to enemies of the Chapter or the Imperium, for wherever there is one ship there are not only several more close at hand, but virtually half the fleet can redeploy to an engagement before within short order of the commencement of hostilities.

In fleet engagements, their ships seek to close quickly to boarding distance, from multiple angles if possible, in order to disable and capture enemy vessels before they can react, after which said ships are usually used against the very planet or fleet they had defended. One favored tactic involves covertly introducing a paralytic nerve agent into an enemy vessel’s environmental systems, leaving entire crews helplessly at the Basilisk's mercy, which is, at best a quick shot to the head and at worst a one-way trip to the airlock.

Basilisk attacks can be quick, or prolonged, according to the adaptability of the Codex and tactics inspired by the creature for which the Chapter is named. The initial strike of any Basilisk force is aimed at forcing the enemy to dig in, whether by pinning them with hails of ranged fire or holding them in place with bloody assaults. If this fails the strike force will fall back, regroup, and repeat the attempt until successful. As soon as the Basilisk force has ‘caught hold’ of the enemy, they move to surround them. Usually this is done by drop pod assault into the enemy’s rear rather than redeployment of ground forces, but fast moving tactical units have effectively fenced in target forces on many occasions. Once surrounded, the Basilisks either grind the foe into oblivion with steady and unrelenting fire, supported by assault units that flush out entrenched targets, or the Chapter may employ an orbital bombardment, destroying everything within their grip. If said grip should be broken, or the enemy can’t be held down long enough to surround, the Basilisk force will withdraw, usually to make an attempt from another angle.

The Chapter does not move or fight with such fluidity on an open battleground, and their tactics are far less effective in pitched battle situations. At these times the Basilisks are more likely to break off the attack and seek to engage the enemy in an area more of their choosing, or to bleed them with endless hit-and-run attacks that drain the enemy of vitality each time. What few Scouts they employ are adepts of sabotage, especially using poisons. Where this proves ineffective, such as against the multi-filtered nervous and digestive system of other marines, more direct means are used, such as explosives. Sabotage like that is usually aimed at enemy ammunition supplies and armor. In more urgent situations, or especially if striking at a port or manufactorum, the enemy may be shelled using the same gaseous nerve agent employed in their boarding actions in an effort to minimize damage to salvageable assets. The tactic is often looked down on as cowardice by other Astartes, but the Basilisks are either oblivious to the stigma or simply don't care.

Individually, most Basilisk marines favor close combat, and most of their extensive bionics are optimized for it. While the majority of these enhancements and prosthetics are still covered by armor, some Basilisks make frequent use of digital weapons and so sacrifice armor to better facilitate cooling. Veterans invariably possess the most bionic replacements.

Organization

D

espite the size of its recruitment pool, it appears the Chapter has never grown far beyond six hundred marines in strength. Even so they have proved on multiple occasions to be willing to commit up to three hundred marines to an engagement without hesitation, and within a reasonably short space of time. These marines usually come from the three nearly full strength only Battle Companies, spaced roughly evenly throughout the fleet. Their remaining marines are distributed across six half sized Reserve Companies, usually lingering near the Monastery Barge.

The Basilisks are, despite their numbers, fairly Codex adherent, with only a few variations in their naming conventions. The Chapter Master is known as the Serpent Lord, and no other power in the Chapter, individual or group, is equal to his. As in any other Astartes Chapter, he is indisputably the strongest marine among them, physically and mentally, perhaps even more so considering how long the Serpent Lords tend to live. At the turn of each generation thus far, caused each time by the death of the Master in battle, the Chapter disappears and is lost even to the unclosing eye of the Inquisition. When it next appears, usually not for decades, the Chapter is markedly weaker for a time. Twice they have fallen to less than two hundred marines. This too usually lasts a few decades. The cause for this decline is also a mystery. The current Chapter Master is Serpent Lord Sicariss, who has been the head of the Basilisks for well over three and a half centuries.

The Basilisks have not looked favorably on the Ultima Founding. When they were called upon to augment their ranks with Primaris marines, they responded with silence, and seem to avoid joining with Primaris chapters on the battlefield.

The Head Transfusion

The doors to the Serpent Lord’s chambers sealed with a hiss, leaving the black and gilded casket sitting in the center of the darkened room. After several moments of silenced, a whirring and hum of power announced the activation of a pair of servitors recessed into a wall. One, some sort of surgical servitor, approached the casket, while the other, which appeared to be a Historitor, moved toward the bank of screens and monitors that dominated the wall across from the casket.

Deft mechanical appendages keyed several panels, deactivating and reactivating several screens, and moving subtly hidden levers and switches. A few seconds later the wall split and opened, revealing an alcove, softly lit by the glow of the translucent screens still suspended in front of it. The light fell on a whispering, shifting form, a humanoid bound and connected to the wall behind it by cables and chains, all sallow skin and exposed circuitry.

The historitor reached out to a plinth over which this hidden servitor was held, metal digits skittering across it. The sound of sparks and buzzing current came from the mess of cables and cords, and the figure twitched and jerked briefly, before its unintelligible burbles and whispers were replaced with a single, low hum, almost musical to hear.

At this, the historitor settle back on mechanical haunches and quieted, waiting. Behind it, the surgical servitor had unsealed and opened the casket, and with drills, saws and scalpels was peeling back layers of skin, muscle and bone on the figure within. It worked methodically, ceaselessly, slowly extricating wires and circuitry from the now faceless cranium.

Eventually, whether hours or days later, the continuous monotone of the hidden servitor pitched up for a moment and then went silent, at which the historitor stirred and straightened, eyes abnormally attentive. A rasping, modulated voice issued from the hanging form.

“Report.”

The response came from the historitor, but the voice and cadence was not that of a lobotomized servant.

“Scitalis has expired on the battlefield of Pharsalia, my lord. The Basilisks are entering dormancy.”

“The Chain Node?”

The supposed historitor turned to look at the surgical servitor, which stood in active over the casket, a mesh of fine wires and organic components held in one claw. Turning back, the strange servant answered.

“Intact.”

“Well done, Li-Char. We will begin preparing potential successors,” the voice answered, “Rendezvous coordinates forthcoming. To the coming of the True Omnissiah.”

“To the coming of the True Omnissiah.”

Beliefs

Volcanic Deathworld Cerregra

The feed from the servo-skull was spotty, marred by static bursts and light flares from the lava below. A group of Astartes stood beside the molten river, several of them gesturing upstream, while one was kneeling by a device on the bank. Presently, they stood and trotted off further downstream. Moisei did not send the skull to follow immediately, but as the visual began to shudder, he realized he should have. The drone turned to see some sort of detonation erupt on the side of the ashmount, and the lava flow immediately swelled, doubling, and then tripling in size, until a veritable wave of lava was rolling down the mountainside. There was a heatbloom in the feed as the skull tried to escape, and then the connection was lost.

Moisei sighed, pushing away from the monitor in frustration. What were they after on this hellscape, these supposed sons of the Gorgon? And how many servo-skulls was it going to take to find out.

T

here appear to be two tiers to the belief system of the Basilisks. The first echoes the Iron Hands mantra of Purge the Weak, with a slightly more progressive approach: a doctrine known as Shed the Weak. According to the Basilisks, the transformation familiar to Iron Hands and their successors for millennia is a natural order of evolution prompted by the very first advent of technology. They believe that humanity may ‘grow into’ this changed and improved form over time, which progression is based on merit. The first thing shed by every Basilisk upon initiation is his given name, and after induction, the traditional right hand of Manus’ sons. From then on, augmentations and bionic replacements are earned. Should a marine suffer a wound or lose a limb on the battlefield without having proven his worth, he will not be saved except for his invaluable geneseed, and is considered as shed weakness.

This much is known because the Basilisks have, in the past, allowed Imperial agents unrestricted access to their regular rites in an attempt to dissuade Inquisitorial attention, and these rites clearly suggest another level of doctrine among the Basilisks. This other ‘tier’ of beliefs is repeatedly mentioned during regular rites, in the oratories of their Chaplains. What this second tier is exactly is unknown to any but the brothers of the Chapter, and is referred to simply as The Quest. Every marine seems to be aware of its meaning since both Initiates and Veterans are present when the Chaplains are relaying its urgency and significance, and all those who are present respond with equal fervor. This suggests that the knowledge is planted along with the 19 organs, during hypnotherapy, and this process has always been strictly prohibited from outside view.

The truth of The Quest is surprisingly simple, something of an evolution of a belief common among the Gorgon’s sons, that one day the Primarch may return. The Basilisks don’t espouse this exact belief, but rather they believe that the bearers of the Iron Hands legacy must become as their Primarch, believing that to do so requires not only mastery of the mechanical, but the literal hands of Ferrus Manus. The Quest, in essence, is a search for the spawn of Asirnoth, which the Basilisks are convinced exists somewhere in the galaxy, and can grant them the power of the Primarch, or in other words, return His power to the Imperium. Where this belief originated is unclear, but it accounts for the haste with which they answer any call from a world with remotely volcanic activity, which has been the only pattern ever detected in their fleet movements.

Though he has little to no support among other Inquisitors, Moisei has long investigated the Basilisks because of these strange beliefs coupled with rumors of the Basilisks attacking and destroying young Chapters under the banner of perceived Chaos influence, only to claim the remaining fleet assets for their Quest. The most substantiated occasion involved a newly gathered Ork invasion which sprung up in the Heltoez system, only a subsector from the volcanic homeworld of the young Ash Eagles Chapter. Though the Greenskin invasion saw to it that surviving records were scarce, sources suggested that when the Basilisks ‘answered’ the call for help, their ships orbited the planet, guns and launch bays still, for two and a half weeks while the Ash Eagles scoured wave after wave of Greenskin hordes, and were ultimately ground down to less than half a company. After the Basilisks joined battle, the conflict was decisively ended, but the Eagles were lost while the Basilisks left with all the fledgling Chapter’s fleet elements. For Moisei, the mere possibility that this transpired is more than enough evidence that the Chapter has turned from the Emperor’s light, while others, who he derides as ‘charmed by the snake’ question how or why the Eagles wouldn’t have conveyed such damning evidence of treachery to anyone.

The appearance of the Cicatrix Maledictum seems to have fueled the urgency of the Basilisk’s quest, and they now traverse the Dark Imperium erratically, smashing aside resistance of any form as they scour sector after sector for clues to the location of Asirnoth’s kin. New rumors have risen about the Imperial costs of the Basilisk’s campaign; supplies and materiel that has been more raided than commandeered, PDFs abandoned in the middle of battle with chaos forces, and worse.

Gene-seed

T

he genetic material of the Basilisks is severely mutated, the cause of their thin numbers and low rate of implantation success. Extensive genetic manipulation during the gene-seed’s growth would have been required to arrive at the functionality of an average Basilisk marine, and the fact that they display any genetic stability at all is a testament to Mechanicus handiwork and not the simple passage of time. For any other founding of marines, this would be great cause for alarm, but among the marines of the Cursed Founding, signs of deliberate mutation among essential Space Marine organs is more the rule than the exception.

The first significant change is in the Occulobe. Basilisks do not have the hypersensitive eye-sight of other Adeptus Astartes, nor can they see as clearly at range. However, Basilisk marines can make use of frighteningly accurate vision on the thermal spectrum without the use of a filter of any kind, making them especially lethal urban hunters.

Their second mutation is of the Neuroglittis which has been so overcharged that a marine need only open his mouth to taste what is before him. With chemical injector augmentations, usually one of the first received by most Basilisks, the Neuroglittis can be used to track scents at an alarming distance, when eyes might fail.

The final mutation is of the Mucranoid, which produces a thicker, tougher than usual covering, allowing marines to last longer than usual in the vacuum, as well as decreasing the effects of harsh elements. Basilisk marines customarily force the Mucranoid covering to form after each augmentation, only removing it to replace a broken layer, or at the time of the next shedding. The layer formed is almost completely covering, and requires the placing of a rebreather as well as spacers and seals over the eyes and ears, though these are fairly simple to integrate.

Such advanced mutation would attract Mechanicus attention were it not for the campaign of carefully spread rumors by Chapter serfs, exaggerating the staggeringly low success rate of implantation, the weakened Occulobe and insinuating a completely absent Neuroglittis. Once perpetuated, these rumors left the Adeptus Mechanicus with little interest in digging deeper, content to simply receive the Chapter’s tithe. The misinformation has not, however, dissuaded the Basilisk’s “resident” Inquisitor.

There is no official knowledge of any further mutation among the Basilisks, despite the ample opportunities to study them, as their fallen marines are so frequently left on the battlefield. Even those suitable for dreadnought interment are rarely saved. The damning truth is that the Basilisks are far more genetically unstable, only very skilled at hiding it. The Chapter’s progenoids mature normally enough, and so tithes of it have not betrayed them yet. Pinning down the source of the mutation has proved impossible, but in most cases the full complement of organs together causes aspirants to grow well beyond standard Astartes size, turning them into voracious and cannibalistic predators.

The engineered enhancements appearing in normal Basilisk marines are greatly intensified in these monsters, giving them hides which have been seen stopping bolter rounds, and supernal hunting senses. If the Chapter were ever forced to subject to true Inquisitorial investigation, discovery would be likely be immediate. In an effort to cull these aberrations, one ship out of the fleet is designated for the implantation process. Fortifying the medbay into a bunker, and equipped with a trap door, each aspirant that succumbs to the mutation is dropped into a lower chamber and released into the ship. It is this same vessel where recruits face their trials: to outhunt and destroy these nameless beasts. Survivors learn what it really is that they defeated after successfully receiving the last organ, and from then on are sworn to silence.

Battle-cry

The Basilisks offer no call or outwardly audible sound at all when in battle . Edited August 15, 2019 by Messor

[Ace Debonair]

So after all the fantastic discussion in the questions thread about how to avoid the pitfall of over theme-ing, I finished the most over themed Chapter I could conceive!

 

These guys aren't that over-themed. They don't even turn people to stone, hiss their words, or anything! :P

 

If anyone is bored and can help me make these guys a little more serious, C&C is welcome. The next one will be legit, I promise. ;)

No, seriously. These guys are already on the road to being ok.

 

You could do with spelling out what the mutations are much earlier in the article though.

 

And explaining how they actually get recruits without landing on planets. :rolleyes:

 

 

EDIT:

Also, their fleet is stretched around the Eye of Terror? Am I reading that right?

...'Cause that is a big place to stretch around.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Ace Debonair

[Erasmus of Baal]

“To know that our eyes are upon them must cause our enemies to be paralyzed with fear, to acknowledge the immediacy of their mortal lives. To look upon our silent gaze, they must know death, swift and sure!”

-Asmodeuss, 1st Serpent Lord

Well, you're right that you're pretty heavy-handed with that theme of yours....

 

Of the many Chapters birthed from the darkness of the 21st founding, few proved successful, or even survived.

From GW-official chapters, this is an iffy claim at best. If we include DIY Chapters, then this claim is patently untrue.

Home World

You don’t even have to talk about this since you’re a fleet-based Chapter. Mention it in the overview (briefly) and again in the organization, and you’re good. .

 

Like most Chapters of the Cursed Founding, the greatest challenge of the Basilisks is not victory in battle, but propagation.

As I said before, you’re thinking of the Cursed Founding chapters awfully negatively. This isn’t consistently the case.

In order to maintain a flow of successful initiates, the Chapter takes suitable candidates en masse from liberated worlds, never giving a word of explanation and often leaving without the planet's inhabitants even knowing who they are until contacting local Inquisitors.

STOP. People do not get to contact Inquisitors unless the Inquisitor has asked them for specific information. This is like asking the FBI or Department of Homeland Security for directions.

The Chapter keeps few serfs, but unfit recruits are frequently augmented or turned into servitors to assist the Techmarines in their considerable work.

Those had better be some pretty lethal trials, then. Otherwise, if you’re even close to the standard thousand (or 1500, but that’s just details) Marines in your Chapter, your, mass of recruits for the most part become a mass of serfs. If the trials are lethal enough for this to be the case, talk about that fact.

All of the Basilisks most significant actions have either been ship to ship, or targeted planetside orbital defenses.

Be careful what you have your Chapter doing. Ship-to-ship combat is primarily the domain of the Imperial Navy. They (along with many Inquisitors) get VERY pissed if you infringe upon their Emperor-given domain. Boarding actions, though, are a Space Marine specialty.

To enemies of the Chapter or the Imperium, the fleet of the Basilisks feels like an omnipresent threat, for wherever there is one ship there are always several more close at hand.

Typical for sneaky Space Marines. Makes you sound like Raven Guard successors. IMO, not really worth the words.

Basilisk attacks can be quick, or prolonged; they deploy highly adaptable forces, but repeatedly utilize one basic strategy.

One repeated strategy makes for a very easily defeated Chapter. Cut or change dramatically.

The Chapter does not move or fight with such fluidity on an open battleground, and their tactics are far less effective in pitched battle situations. At these times the Basilisks are more likely to break off the attack and seek to engage the enemy in an area more of their choosing.

The first part is obvious; the second part makes them cowards. Not just seeming like cowards, but actual cowards. Change it.

The Basilisks are by and large codex adherents

This directly contradicts the last section, as the Codex Astartes discusses battle tactics as well as organization.

with variations in their naming conventions

Another example of you being rather heavy-handed with your theme. Tone it down. You’ll get a lot more out of choosing names for your theme rather than renaming every position.

Standing at nominal strength, the Chapter can effectively pursue targets along nearly the entire length of the fleet within a fairly short time, with the Battle Coils spaced roughly evenly throughout and the reserve coils lingering near the Monastery Barge, the remaining elements deployed as needed.

lolwut? Makes no sense.

Beliefs

Again, you’re putting your theme in too heavily. Make a metaphor of how a snake sheds its skin, but there’s no need to phrase everything that way. It’s worse than Matt Ward’s equipment designs for the Blood Angels: Blood Talons, Blood Fists, Blood This, Blood That….

Aside from that, though, this seems good. Much harsher than usual works fine.

 

This much has been revealed … and this process is strictly prohibited from outside view.

Again, you’re not making a lot of sense here. Remember that this isn’t an Inquisitorial account but a way to explain to people what your Chapter is really about. And don’t bother trying to hide things from the Inquisition. Statistically, they already know.

 

The Quest

This is a great concept. Keep this, and consider introducing it earlier so you can reflect it more strongly across your IA.

 

To arrive at the functionality of an average Basilisk marine would have required extensive genetic manipulation during the gene-seed’s growth, and the fact that they maintain any genetic stability is a testament to Mechanicus handiwork and not the simple passage of time. Essentially, the Chapter has been deliberately mutated, engineered with specific abilities based on the organs already present. This is believed to be part of the reason the Basilisks have survived, unlike those Chapters of the 21st who were experimented on with additional organs

You’re still mutants, regardless of how you were mutated. Tone down the “We’re 21st founding, but we’re better than them.”

 

The first significant change …. Their second mutation ….. The final mutation

.

Sure. Consider toning the extent of the mutations a bit, but it shouldn’t be a big issue as it now stands.

[Messor]

Ok, let me get crackin' before bed.

 

No, seriously. These guys are already on the road to being ok.

Oh! Well that's a comforting notion. I'll try to make the trip short, then!

 

You could do with spelling out what the mutations are much earlier in the article though.

A tall order, I'm a slave to the almighty Template. I always try to avoid dipping into mutations early on so that the gene-seed section won't be redundant, giving just the bare minimum to get by in the article. Were there particular parts where you felt they should have been mentioned?

 

And explaining how they actually get recruits without landing on planets. :huh:

 

Sorry if this wasn't clear. The idea is, if they go to war on an inhabited planet (seems likely, since those are usually the ones with the resources worth fighting for), when the victory's won, they take/kidnap/whatever a group of potential recruits before they leave.

 

 

Also, their fleet is stretched around the Eye of Terror? Am I reading that right?

...'Cause that is a big place to stretch around.

Well, I'm not really great at interpreting the many [conflicting] maps of the 40k galaxy, so my scale may be way off, but the Monastery Barge circles the Eye, and the fleet is in a line on either side of it, not wrapped around it. How much space does the Eye cover? How much is reasonably space for Chapter to patrol?

 

 

“To know that our eyes are upon them must cause our enemies to be paralyzed with fear, to acknowledge the immediacy of their mortal lives. To look upon our silent gaze, they must know death, swift and sure!”

-Asmodeuss, 1st Serpent Lord

Well, you're right that you're pretty heavy-handed with that theme of yours....

:P I try. But in this quote it seems pretty logical to that he would draw from the symbol of the Chapter to characterize and inspire his marines. I'm still on the fence about the title 'Serpent Lord', though. It got tiring trying to think of fitting alternatives.

 

From GW-official chapters, this is an iffy claim at best. If we include DIY Chapters, then this claim is patently untrue.

I'm sure this applies to the 'survived' bit, which I probably shouldn't have included in the name of DIYs everywhere, but the only sources I have to describe the 21st founding and why it was cursed are the Lexicanum and 40k wiki, which both indicate that few of these many Chapters were successful. What's to say the DIYs aren't chronicles of those other few successful 21st-ers, its not as if we know how many Chapters were founded at that time.

 

You don’t even have to talk about this since you’re a fleet-based Chapter. Mention it in the overview (briefly) and again in the organization, and you’re good.

Like I said, slave to the Template. I'll try to blend it into the rest of the IA, then, should be fun.

 

As I said before, you’re thinking of the Cursed Founding chapters awfully negatively. This isn’t consistently the case.

That's the one thing that was specifically mentioned in the information I found, that the hardest thing for the Cursed Founding Chapters was maintaining numbers. That's the only perspective of the Founding I could have without knowing anything else. Are there other sources that could clue me in(Preferably ones I don't have to buy)?

 

STOP. People do not get to contact Inquisitors unless the Inquisitor has asked them for specific information. This is like asking the FBI or Department of Homeland Security for directions.

HAhahaa, well consider it stricken, and the Imperial populace at large will just have to stay in the dark.

 

Those had better be some pretty lethal trials, then. Otherwise, if you’re even close to the standard thousand (or 1500, but that’s just details) Marines in your Chapter, your, mass of recruits for the most part become a mass of serfs. If the trials are lethal enough for this to be the case, talk about that fact.

Well I'm glad you arrived at what I was going for, but you're right, I should enumerate at least some of the challenges. The vast majority of recruits do not survive (hm, maybe something like large hatching of snake infants that eat each other...without the eating each other). This gives me a couple of ideas though, and I'll work something in.

 

Be careful what you have your Chapter doing. Ship-to-ship combat is primarily the domain of the Imperial Navy. They (along with many Inquisitors) get VERY pissed if you infringe upon their Emperor-given domain. Boarding actions, though, are a Space Marine specialty.

Right, boarding actions is what I was going for, I just lumped them together, considering boarding as a form of ship-to-ship (been reading that thread about 1,000,000 marines), and I wanted that specialty to be extra special for them.

 

Typical for sneaky Space Marines. Makes you sound like Raven Guard successors. IMO, not really worth the words.

:) Will I get rid of this? I'll have to think about it, I've already built the thematic bridges in my mind.

 

One repeated strategy makes for a very easily defeated Chapter. Cut or change dramatically

I'm willing to open the field (somehow), but it gives no character to the Chapter if they fight just like all the other space marines. Maybe I can find something in Rites of Battle, or liken a strategy to an envenomed wound (or just poison the enemy. Do space marines do that?).

 

The first part is obvious; the second part makes them cowards. Not just seeming like cowards, but actual cowards. Change it.

That's strong. I think its more like breaking the mold of attrition warfare. If an approach can be taken that accomplishes the Chapter's mission with minimal losses, where does that cross the line from tactics into cowardice?

 

This directly contradicts the last section, as the Codex Astartes discusses battle tactics as well as organization.

To me this is saying that the Codex decrees that, once engaged in battle you stay there til you win or you die. I'm mostly referring to organization here, rather than combat, but it wouldn't hurt to bring them both into harmony if you can help me see what's outside the codex. It might feel weird, even kinda lazy disregarding the codex for combat but using it for organization (or when its convenient).

 

Another example of you being rather heavy-handed with your theme. Tone it down. You’ll get a lot more out of choosing names for your theme rather than renaming every position.

I was really uncomfortable with the names I ended up with, but I really wanted them to be different even more. End result. If the Space Wolves can be satisfied with the term Company, maybe I can, too. ;) Not sure what you mean by that last bit, are you talking about naming characters?

 

Standing at nominal strength, the Chapter can effectively pursue targets along nearly the entire length of the fleet within a fairly short time, with the Battle Coils spaced roughly evenly throughout and the reserve coils lingering near the Monastery Barge, the remaining elements deployed as needed.

lolwut? Makes no sense.

Just says the Chapter is about at full strength and how the position of the Companies speeds its deployment. Not sure yet about the full strength thing, doesn't really feel in keeping with a 21st founding chapter.

 

Again, you’re putting your theme in too heavily. Make a metaphor of how a snake sheds its skin, but there’s no need to phrase everything that way. It’s worse than Matt Ward’s equipment designs for the Blood Angels: Blood Talons, Blood Fists, Blood This, Blood That….

Aside from that, though, this seems good. Much harsher than usual works fine.

But a metaphor about how a snake sheds its skin is all I did, nothing else is phrased that way, unless your including the whole IA until now and not just Beliefs.

 

Again, you’re not making a lot of sense here. Remember that this isn’t an Inquisitorial account but a way to explain to people what your Chapter is really about. And don’t bother trying to hide things from the Inquisition. Statistically, they already know.

Statistically who-what now? Yeah, some of the subtleties of adding mystery to a Chapter are lost on me, especially since I want to share everything. Until this morning I had excluded the part about the Quest. So I tried to give them their mystery in-universe, while sharing their secrets IRL.

 

This is a great concept. Keep this, and consider introducing it earlier so you can reflect it more strongly across your IA.

I'd like to, and will gladly confront the great Template to find a way to do so. Your input on the recruitment section gave me one idea, but again I feel like I'm betraying the mystery/potential suspense.

 

You’re still mutants, regardless of how you were mutated. Tone down the “We’re 21st founding, but we’re better than them.”

Sure, what I was trying to convey was that what they are is deliberate(which I'm sure many other 21st founding Chapters had a share of), and I mentioned the other Chapters because I read...somewhere...recently(thans, brain)...that there was some taboo against trying to 'improve' on the Emperor's work with things like new organs. Not trying to sound superior, but I did detect that despite my impression of the 21st founding, the Basilisks are really(and probably a little too) well off.

 

Sure. Consider toning the extent of the mutations a bit, but it shouldn’t be a big issue as it now stands.

May not follow through with this one, but I don't want them to appear any kind of OP, so I'll have a good long look at it.

 

Thanks a ton, Ace and Erasmus, your comments are greatly appreciated! :lol:

Edited November 26, 2012 by Messor

[Ace Debonair]

Ok. This bit, specifically.

 

Origins

Of the many Chapters birthed from the darkness of the 21st founding, few proved successful, or even survived. Among these 'Cursed' Chapters are the Basilisks. It’s nearly impossible to say for what purpose the Chapter was created, if not the agenda they currently pursue, but two things have become abundantly clear over the millennia. Official observers can freely ascertain that the Basilisks are of Iron hands descent, if nothing else. Anyone, though, be it friend or foe, can tell that these marines were engineered to do what they do. Despite the loss of records, one need only see the Basilisks on the battlefield to understand the deliberate nature of their mutations. If they were an Adeptus Mechanicus experiment, their creators might have considered them a success, but since the time they emerged from the void no records have followed to give any other clues regarding their origins. The Basilisks themselves avoid almost all contact with other Imperial Forces, remaining tight-lipped under whatever scrutiny the Inquisition attempts to pursue. While they reject combat honors, they allow transmission of battle records which largely reassure the High Lords of the Chapter's dedication. In the meant time, the Inquisition has had a constant eye on the Chapter’s doings practically since their first vox transmission.

 

EDIT:

I fumbled the coding there. My bad!

 

That's a brilliant build-up for the mutations.

But it's not expanded on at all until much later in the article, and it thusly feels like you've left something out.

 

 

You don't have to adhere to this great template you speak of so much that there isn't room to adapt it; so I'd say give them an origins section (which you've got already) and then either a 'history' section where you can embellish on what the mutations are and the effects they've had on the chapter over time, or a 'the curse' subsection that, er, does the same thing. :)

 

As for the geneseed section, you can always use that to speculate on the origins of the mutations a bit and state whether or not the geneseed has changed any over the years.

 

Unless of course the goal is to make the mutations a mystery until the last possible moment, in which case you just need a few more hints spread through the article before the geneseed section.

Mystery is a fickle thing, however, and difficult to work into an explanatory article describing Space Marines.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Ace Debonair

[Messor]

Made edits taking into account everything(or almost everything) mentioned in Ace and Erasmus's first posts. Not got around to trying to blend the sections more, or fine-tuning the gene-seed quite yet.

[Messor]

Update: A few more editing improvements, and some information about why the Inquisition would be concerned with them, besides just being 21st, and some speculation as to the fate of failed recruits. There might be a big reveal there, but not sure if I want to go that route.

[Messor]

Update: Followed Ace's suggestion to make some genetic conjecture in the gene-seed section, and the necessary support [line] in the recruits section. I actually really like how that little idea has shaped up

[Tiger9gamer]

really good job! almost made me want to make some guys myself :P will there be any stories of them?

[Messor]

Thanks Tiger, I am planning at least one story about about one of their brutal boarding actions, and maybe some pieces about the pursuit of the Quest.

[Messor]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/alienbastard89/Warhammer/baschamp2.jpg

 

WIP First Basilisk marine, a Champion or a stand in Captain.

[Arkangilos]

I'm willing to open the field (somehow), but it gives no character to the Chapter if they fight just like all the other space marines. Maybe I can find something in Rites of Battle, or liken a strategy to an envenomed wound (or just poison the enemy. Do space marines do that?)

 

Maybe as a special tactic (somewhat unique to your chapter and fitting of the theme) that you can use would be the deployment of nerve agents to paralyze your enemies before you drop into them. You do the basilisk thing of paralyzing them before you bite them, know what I mean?

Edited November 26, 2012 by Telanicus

[Messor]

I'm willing to open the field (somehow), but it gives no character to the Chapter if they fight just like all the other space marines. Maybe I can find something in Rites of Battle, or liken a strategy to an envenomed wound (or just poison the enemy. Do space marines do that?)

 

Maybe as a special tactic (somewhat unique to your chapter and fitting of the theme) that you can use would be the deployment of nerve agents to paralyze your enemies before you drop into them. You do the basilisk thing of paralyzing them before you bite them, know what I mean?

 

Devilishly clever sir, that's gonna be working its way into the combat doctrine, thanks for the suggestion!

 

edit: Aaaaand they're nerve gassing their victims! Props again, Telanicus!

Edited December 2, 2012 by Messor

[Messor]

Part one of a story regarding the Quest of the Basilisks and their involvement with the Baal Pythons is up and ready for perusing and abusing. Do please let me know what you think, especially fluff conflicts/questions!

[NightrawenII]

Well, I have read it and if you want C&C here it is:

 

First. Basilisk is IG self-propelled artillery.

 

Second. Your Chapter fails as the 21st Founding Chapter. This founding wasn't called Cursed just for the laughs, you know. Yet, in your narrative everything work just fine, there is no drawback nor damper and nothing hampers the Chapter. Quite contrary, the gene-seed mutations are for better only. All this makes it absolutely unbelievable.

 

Third, there are two methods, how to make Chapter mysterious, outsider and insider view;

Outsider view:

Basically, the narrative is omnipresent and thus the reader can see even the things, which are otherwise classified or unknown to rest of the Universe. The good example are the Dark Angels. The players know the secret of the Unforgiven, while the rest of the Universe is ignorant of this fact.

 

Insider view:

The author, via in-universe characters, presents his readers variety of reports and information, which, by its very nature, might or might not be true and therefore it's up to the reader to make his own conclusions. Most of the third edition Codexes were written like that.

 

Comparatively, the insider is harder to do (right) than the outsider and it's no wonder most people resort to hybrid method, which in most cases looks like Ace's Sons of =][=DELETED=][=. The thing is, while his article is hilarious, the others are just lazy story-telling. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

 

That's all I have to say, for now...

 

 

~NightrawenII.

[Messor]

Much appreciated for the input, NightrawenII. Let me see what I can do.

 

First. Basilisk is IG self-propelled artillery.

 

I'm aware; always been my favorite part of IG armies, the Basilisk. You don't think a Chapter could share a name with a piece of siege weaponry?

 

Second. Your Chapter fails as the 21st Founding Chapter. This founding wasn't called Cursed just for the laughs, you know. Yet, in your narrative everything work just fine, there is no drawback nor damper and nothing hampers the Chapter. Quite contrary, the gene-seed mutations are for better only. All this makes it absolutely unbelievable.

 

Interesting that you should say that, as some of my first critiques suggested that my outlook on the 21st was too negative. From what I've read of the official 21st Chapters, though(admittedly, my only available sources are Lexicanum and 40kwiki), not all those Chapters were particularly 'Cursed'. The Black Dragons got some spikes and now the Inquisition won't leave them alone, the Minotaurs...hate...really...hard? The Lamenters look like Bad Luck Blood Angels, whose problems could just as easily be ascribed to their traitorous choice at Badab. And the Sons of Antaeus are labeled "Unbreakable". Two of those sound pretty awesome, and a lot less suspicious than what the Basilisks have going, I think. BUT, that doesn't mean I'm trying to excuse myself from their founding, I put 'em there cuz I want 'em there, and we'll get 'Cursed' out of this yet. Now I'm sure this ties into your next point, but having read it was the last part of the gene-seed section not suggestive enough of more intense mutation? Lemme just move down there...

 

Third, there are two methods, how to make Chapter mysterious, outsider and insider view;

Outsider view:

Basically, the narrative is omnipresent and thus the reader can see even the things, which are otherwise classified or unknown to rest of the Universe. The good example are the Dark Angels. The players know the secret of the Unforgiven, while the rest of the Universe is ignorant of this fact.

 

Insider view:

The author, via in-universe characters, presents his readers variety of reports and information, which, by its very nature, might or might not be true and therefore it's up to the reader to make his own conclusions. Most of the third edition Codexes were written like that.

 

Ok. Unsolved mysteries in the above IA:

1.What/who killed the recruits?

2.Withdrawal at each generation of leadership

3.Mutant or no?

 

I'm pretty sure what I was aiming for was the hybrid. The consensus I seem to see is that "If you don't reveal your mystery, its pointless," right? I honestly tried to leave bread crumbs to give the reader ideas on 1 and 3 there, so I'm guessing since you said something, that failed. So lets say that's a style of writing I want to master...do I just give more bread crumbs? I don't want to make things obvious. Yes, I'm pretty sure I know what I want the secrets to be, but I think it might be more fun for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

[Wulfebane]

First. Basilisk is IG self-propelled artillery.

 

I'm aware; always been my favorite part of IG armies, the Basilisk. You don't think a Chapter could share a name with a piece of siege weaponry?

 

Or a piece of weaponry share a name with a Primarch - Leman Russ.

 

I'm pretty sure what I was aiming for was the hybrid. The consensus I seem to see is that "If you don't reveal your mystery, its pointless," right? I honestly tried to leave bread crumbs to give the reader ideas on 1 and 3 there, so I'm guessing since you said something, that failed. So lets say that's a style of writing I want to master...do I just give more bread crumbs? I don't want to make things obvious. Yes, I'm pretty sure I know what I want the secrets to be, but I think it might be more fun for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

 

This is where I'm stuck on my DIY IA too. I have what feels like should be a redacted secret known only to the chapter and Inquisition, but how much should be revealed and still have it feel like a legit IA? I have it all fleshed out, and I want people to know of it to understand the story better, but will that make it more or less legitimate...

Edited December 17, 2012 by Wulfebane

[Messor]

My sentiment exactly.

[NightrawenII]

Interesting that you should say that, as some of my first critiques suggested that my outlook on the 21st was too negative. From what I've read of the official 21st Chapters, though(admittedly, my only available sources are Lexicanum and 40kwiki), not all those Chapters were particularly 'Cursed'. The Black Dragons got some spikes and now the Inquisition won't leave them alone, the Minotaurs...hate...really...hard? The Lamenters look like Bad Luck Blood Angels, whose problems could just as easily be ascribed to their traitorous choice at Badab. And the Sons of Antaeus are labeled "Unbreakable". Two of those sound pretty awesome, and a lot less suspicious than what the Basilisks have going, I think.

Indeed, but note how much information is available for these Chapters... Little to none at all.

 

In my opinion, what marks Cursed Founding Chapter are:

- bad luck

- strained relationship with Inquistion; (Technically speaking, according to the original article in Chapter Approved 2004 and Forgeworld Badab War books, the Cursed Founding Chapters have bad relationships with everyone, be it Imperium or their Astartes brethren.)

- mutations, which threatens the survival of Chapter

 

Out of these three, you have somewhat strained relationship with Inquistion, but the rest is nowhere to be found.

 

I'm pretty sure what I was aiming for was the hybrid. The consensus I seem to see is that "If you don't reveal your mystery, its pointless," right? I honestly tried to leave bread crumbs to give the reader ideas on 1 and 3 there, so I'm guessing since you said something, that failed. So lets say that's a style of writing I want to master...do I just give more bread crumbs? I don't want to make things obvious. Yes, I'm pretty sure I know what I want the secrets to be, but I think it might be more fun for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

Not exactly; "The source of mystery is the interest, not the mystery itself."

 

Or in other words. What makes the Dark Angels interesting, is their mission, which they seek to hide from everyone.

 

I'm pretty sure what I was aiming for was the hybrid. The consensus I seem to see is that "If you don't reveal your mystery, its pointless," right? I honestly tried to leave bread crumbs to give the reader ideas on 1 and 3 there, so I'm guessing since you said something, that failed. So lets say that's a style of writing I want to master...do I just give more bread crumbs? I don't want to make things obvious. Yes, I'm pretty sure I know what I want the secrets to be, but I think it might be more fun for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

 

This is where I'm stuck on my DIY IA too. I have what feels like should be a redacted secret known only to the chapter and Inquisition, but how much should be revealed and still have it feel like a legit IA? I have it all fleshed out, and I want people to know of it to understand the story better, but will that make it more or less legitimate...

Do you want the word of encouragement? :yes:

 

Throughout the time I'm here, in the Liber (that's what... almost three years), I have never seen *mysterious* Chapter done well. Ever. It's simply outside of the realm of average DIYer and I advise against it, every time I see one.

 

"Don't do that, unless you are skilled writer."

 

 

~NightrawenII.

[Arkangilos]

Nightrawen is right, as a cursed founding there should be some MAJOR drawbacks.

 

Also, it is kind of my belief that if there is something good about the chapter that makes them better than average, there should be a dip somewhere.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Telanicus

[Ace Debonair]

Also, their fleet is stretched around the Eye of Terror? Am I reading that right?

...'Cause that is a big place to stretch around.

Well, I'm not really great at interpreting the many [conflicting] maps of the 40k galaxy, so my scale may be way off, but the Monastery Barge circles the Eye, and the fleet is in a line on either side of it, not wrapped around it. How much space does the Eye cover? How much is reasonably space for Chapter to patrol?

 

=][= WARNING: EPICALLY DELAYED ANSWER IMMINENT =][=

 

Well, that's a tricky one which relies a lot on scale and the fact it's a fictional map.

 

Basically, the Eye of Terror is really, really, really, really big.

Like, super-vast.

 

You can see it on a map of the whole Imperium, but you can't see the solar system. Space marines can definitely cover a much bigger area than the solar system, but not as big as the Eye of Terror.

 

Sorry I can't be more help. :P

 

In my opinion, what marks Cursed Founding Chapter are:

- bad luck

- strained relationship with Inquistion; (Technically speaking, according to the original article in Chapter Approved 2004 and Forgeworld Badab War books, the Cursed Founding Chapters have bad relationships with everyone, be it Imperium or their Astartes brethren.)

- mutations, which threatens the survival of Chapter

 

Out of these three, you have somewhat strained relationship with Inquistion, but the rest is nowhere to be found.

 

Certainly the Basilisks here could stand to be a bit more... at risk, I suppose is the right term.

 

If the curse doesn't really threaten them in some way, it's not much of a curse, after all!

 

 

I'm pretty sure what I was aiming for was the hybrid. The consensus I seem to see is that "If you don't reveal your mystery, its pointless," right? I honestly tried to leave bread crumbs to give the reader ideas on 1 and 3 there, so I'm guessing since you said something, that failed. So lets say that's a style of writing I want to master...do I just give more bread crumbs? I don't want to make things obvious. Yes, I'm pretty sure I know what I want the secrets to be, but I think it might be more fun for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

 

This is where I'm stuck on my DIY IA too. I have what feels like should be a redacted secret known only to the chapter and Inquisition, but how much should be revealed and still have it feel like a legit IA? I have it all fleshed out, and I want people to know of it to understand the story better, but will that make it more or less legitimate...

 

Tell the story - reveal the secret.

Otherwise, it's like writing most of a book then leaving the last chapter out.

 

Do you want the word of encouragement? :)

 

Throughout the time I'm here, in the Liber (that's what... almost three years), I have never seen *mysterious* Chapter done well. Ever. It's simply outside of the realm of average DIYer and I advise against it, every time I see one.

 

"Don't do that, unless you are skilled writer."

 

There was a Chapter somewhere here called the Steel Ghosts that basically nailed it, they were pretty awesome. But mystery's a subjective beast at best and you might very well disagree.

 

Also, I don't generally think mystery should be the main focus of an explanatory article. It seems a bit paradoxical!

 

Also also, I only just noticed I've been here two days longer than you. I thought you were here first! B)

 

Nightrawen is right, as a cursed founding there should be some MAJOR drawbacks.

 

Also, it is kind of my belief that if there is something good about the chapter that makes them better than average, there should be a dip somewhere.

 

Absolutely. If the curse leaves your marines better off instead of worse, it's not really a curse.

 

Or if you absolutely love the curse as is, adding some other catastrophes (accused of heresy etc, ridiculous pentitent crusades that get the chapter half-killed, or maybe just shockingly bad relations with another Imperial faction which consistently prove to be a thorn in your chapter's side throughout the years) could help balance it out.

[Messor]

Indeed, but note how much information is available for these Chapters... Little to none at all.

Wasn't that a sign of bad mystery writing? :devil: The Lamenters actually have a healthy background, and don't the Black Dragons have a novel out?

 

In my opinion, what marks Cursed Founding Chapter are:

- bad luck

- strained relationship with Inquistion; (Technically speaking, according to the original article in Chapter Approved 2004 and Forgeworld Badab War books, the Cursed Founding Chapters have bad relationships with everyone, be it Imperium or their Astartes brethren.)

- mutations, which threatens the survival of Chapter

I'm surprised bad luck is actually on peoples' list, I didn't realize the 'Curse' was so literal. At any rate, it should be a simple matter to portray more 'strained relationships' with the Imperium at large.

 

Not exactly; "The source of mystery is the interest, not the mystery itself."

 

Or in other words. What makes the Dark Angels interesting, is their mission, which they seek to hide from everyone.

...

 

Throughout the time I'm here, in the Liber (that's what... almost three years), I have never seen *mysterious* Chapter done well. Ever. It's simply outside of the realm of average DIYer and I advise against it, every time I see one.

 

"Don't do that, unless you are skilled writer."

I see your point. I may keep trying. Practice makes perfect, neh?

 

There was a Chapter somewhere here called the Steel Ghosts that basically nailed it, they were pretty awesome. But mystery's a subjective beast at best and you might very well disagree.

 

Also, I don't generally think mystery should be the main focus of an explanatory article. It seems a bit paradoxical!

Found them, what a fascinating read! I guess he didn't come out and say they were Alpha Legion puppets, and the 'reveal' was brilliant...I'm...making something of that, but not sure what yet.

 

Or if you absolutely love the curse as is, adding some other catastrophes (accused of heresy etc, ridiculous pentitent crusades that get the chapter half-killed, or maybe just shockingly bad relations with another Imperial faction which consistently prove to be a thorn in your chapter's side throughout the years) could help balance it out.

Well to be honest I never thought of something as 'the Curse', but I'm sure one's there, and I'm sure it will be entertaining to unveil it.

[Ace Debonair]

There was a Chapter somewhere here called the Steel Ghosts that basically nailed it, they were pretty awesome. But mystery's a subjective beast at best and you might very well disagree.

 

Also, I don't generally think mystery should be the main focus of an explanatory article. It seems a bit paradoxical!

Found them, what a fascinating read! I guess he didn't come out and say they were Alpha Legion puppets, and the 'reveal' was brilliant...I'm...making something of that, but not sure what yet.

 

Yeah, the Steel Ghosts are pretty cool.

However, to put it bluntly, that's one successful 'mystery chapter' in amidst the thousand or more that just don't work.

 

It's a very, very tricky thing to do. Or at least, a very tricky thing to do right.

 

The key, I think, is to work out what actually happened. Then, give people the truth, but give a bit of room for other possibilities as well.

The biggest problem with mystery in an IA is that it's a lot of work that doesn't often pay off, if only because it's frustratingly hard to do properly.

 

Or if you absolutely love the curse as is, adding some other catastrophes (accused of heresy etc, ridiculous pentitent crusades that get the chapter half-killed, or maybe just shockingly bad relations with another Imperial faction which consistently prove to be a thorn in your chapter's side throughout the years) could help balance it out.

Well to be honest I never thought of something as 'the Curse', but I'm sure one's there, and I'm sure it will be entertaining to unveil it.

 

Well, there's your problem. :)

 

You're writing a Cursed Founding Chapter, but never thought of them as cursed? :)

[Messor]

The key, I think, is to work out what actually happened. Then, give people the truth, but give a bit of room for other possibilities as well.

The biggest problem with mystery in an IA is that it's a lot of work that doesn't often pay off, if only because it's frustratingly hard to do properly.

It's only frustrating if its allowed to be.

 

Well, there's your problem. :lol:

 

You're writing a Cursed Founding Chapter, but never thought of them as cursed? :D

Cursed yes, but not with a curse, if that makes any sense. I just always thought of the curse in much looser, figurative terms.

 

edit: I just remembered exactly why the Basislisks are 21st. Wasn't that the only founding involving sanctioned genetic tailoring?

Edited December 19, 2012 by Messor

[Ace Debonair]

You're writing a Cursed Founding Chapter, but never thought of them as cursed? :cuss

Cursed yes, but not with a curse, if that makes any sense. I just always thought of the curse in much looser, figurative terms.

 

Fair play, so long as it makes a noticable impact on the Chapter.

 

It has to make a big difference, otherwise there's not really much point in them being a Cursed Founding Chapter. :eek