Index Astartes: Basilisks

[Messor]

Heh, you ninja'd in before my edit. But rest assured, they'll look a lot more cursed when I'm through with them.

[Ace Debonair]

Heh, you ninja'd in before my edit. But rest assured, they'll look a lot more cursed when I'm through with them.

 

That happens a lot. :wacko:

[Messor]

Alright, I've had a go at upping the Curse in Cursed Founding. They actually felt a lot better to read about for having done so, but I'll wait to see what you all think before I get comfortable. There's one more thing I thought about adding, which goes into the relationship between the Basilisks and the Baal Pythons, which is mentioned in my Indicies Partialus and the little tale I put up in the Librarium (links to both are in my blog). I hesitated to add it because I just wasn't sure if it was a good idea to start mixing details of another Chapter. Thoughts? Edited February 9, 2013 by Messor

[Messor]

New improvements include further grammar clean up, minor detailing and shiny new side bars that hopefully spice it up a bit.

[Messor]

A Champion of the Basilisks

[Gripharius]

Love the figures and I like the Chapter.

 

I'm struggling with the "Cursed" aspect of my Chapter because I'm using the 21st Founding for other reasons, not because I'm giving them some unique Curse.

 

The Sons of Antaeus don't appear to fit the "Cursed" mold or the unlucky, etc., requirements. The Minotaurs don't seem to fit the mold either.

[Messor]

That's what I said while I was working on them. Even the Black Dragons got bad  bony weapons as a curse. I like the Basilisks a lot better with their curse though. If I can be any help with the curse or the founding, don't hesitate to ask!

[Octavulg]

I'm struggling with the "Cursed" aspect of my Chapter because I'm using the 21st Founding for other reasons, not because I'm giving them some unique Curse.

 

The Sons of Antaeus don't appear to fit the "Cursed" mold or the unlucky, etc., requirements. The Minotaurs don't seem to fit the mold either.

The Sons of Antaeus and Minotaurs may do OK out of their macro-Curses, but every Cursed Founding chapter suffers from gene-seed instability, misfortune, and the Imperium thinking they're cursed. That's not a good thing. It may not be explored in detail, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

 

It's possible you might have a Cursed Founding chapter without a notable mutation - C:UM said that only some have big ol' mutations, but that may just be "the rest haven't been found out yet". Then again, the Fire Hawks are CUrsed Founding, and they were fine until they turned into the Legion of the Damned.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Octavulg

[Gripharius]

That's what I said while I was working on them. Even the Black Dragons got bad:cuss  bony weapons as a curse. I like the Basilisks a lot better with their curse though. If I can be any help with the curse or the founding, don't hesitate to ask!

  

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

 

I'm struggling with the "Cursed" aspect of my Chapter because I'm using the 21st Founding for other reasons, not because I'm giving them some unique Curse.The Sons of Antaeus don't appear to fit the "Cursed" mold or the unlucky, etc., requirements. The Minotaurs don't seem to fit the mold either.

The Sons of Antaeus and Minotaurs may do OK out of their macro-Curses, but every Cursed Founding chapter suffers from gene-seed instability, misfortune, and the Imperium thinking they're cursed. That's not a good thing. It may not be explored in detail, but it doesn't mean it's not there.It's possible you might have a Cursed Founding chapter without a notable mutation - C:UM said that only some have big ol' mutations, but that may just be "the rest haven't been found out yet". Then again, the Fire Hawks are CUrsed Founding, and they were fine until they turned into the Legion of the Damned.

Good points. I like the idea of a "macro-Curse". That actually fits in with my concept in a way.

[Octavulg]

Many apparently have psychological instabilities. That's often unexplored territory.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

i must say i really like this Chapter, right down to the name.

[Messor]

Appreciated. Still open to suggestions. Out of curiosity, is the Chapter symbol particularly recognizable to people?

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

well it does go with the name but i think it could use some work and definitely color.  btw what do you use to design those?

[Gripharius]

I like the Chapter and the name. I do have a couple of suggestions that you might consider.

 

I think having the Inquisition and the AdMech following the Chapter around and collecting the discarded corpses of its failed neophytes and battlefield dead strains credulity. I don't think the Inquisition or the AdMech would be so passive aggressive. They'd either kick in your door and start rifling through your underwear drawers, or they'd go home and wait for you to make a mistake.

 

I also think your explanation of why the Chapter's gene-seed may be, or at least seems to be, so stable is kind of muddled, like in the first paragraph of the gene-seed section.

 

One solution that might help with both of these things is to have the Chapter engage in a little disinformation. The Chapter could use its serfs to spread rumors of specific but mostly false rumors regarding its Curse. They could publicize and exaggerate how abnormally low the gene-seed implantation is for your Chapter (leaving out the ship full of giant snake monster part). They could exaggerate their visual limitations and keep their thermal vision secret. They could also suggest their Neuroglittis doesn't work at all.

 

This removes the problem of the AdMech being so interested in the supposed "stability" of their gene-seed. It also makes the AdMech a lot less interested in their gene-seed tithes -- why would the AdMech want gene-seed that fails to implant umpteen times more often than normal, and even when it does work, it makes half-blind Space Marines without a functioning Neuroglittis?

 

Also, whatever interest the Inquisition might have had in the Chapter's curse is also gone, leaving them just concerned about their heavy-handed tactics with other Astartes, something the Inquisition might be willing to basically let the other Astartes sort out.

 

If for whatever reason you want the Inquisiton following the Chapter around, consider making it a lone Inquisitor rather than the whole "institution" of the Inquisiton (I put institution in quotes because its pretty clear the Inquisition rarely, if ever, functions as a whole institution).

 

Maybe a young upstart Inquisitor investigates the Ash Eagles incident, but somehow the Chapter finds a way to hide the evidence and make him look like a fool. So this young Inquisitor decides he's going to bring down the Basilisks and make a name for himself. So he's the one following the Chapter around, collecting its discarded neophytes and battlefield dead, etc. I think a lone Inquisitor with a grudge is easier for the Chapter to keep at bay then "the Inquisiton" as a force.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Messor]

Strongly agree with all of the above. Oh wait, my thread . Great advice, I'll certainly implement it. The dogging does sound odd when you put it that way. Singular Inquisitor(perhaps one of those upstarts that goes on about how he "is" the inquisition) and perhaps a one-off, early investigation by the AdMech, satisfying them down to the present time.

 

@ Lord Marshal

The Chapter Badge? I rarely design them. Only the Pythons have a custom symbol, and the Thornbacks' is semi-custom. The rest are photoshopped and recolored symbols from elsewhere. The Basilisks' is a version of the Flamel Cross, sans the cross.

[Donkey Kong]

Hey Messor!

 

The Chapter Symbol sort of screams Fullmetal Alchemist to me, but it's neither here nor there. Objectively it just doesn't look completely put together. The wings look a little off, but I think it really comes down to the crown. For reference, I'd show you the old Izzet League symbol as compared to the new one.

 

Onto the IA itself,

Nitpick #1 I hate your subheadings  . I don't know if it's just me (it's probably just me), but I really just can't see black on dark green. Your Alpha Hound subheadings are amazing, so this isn't even an issue of ability, just poor color choice. Honestly, they'd probably look fine if you just shifted the text to white.

 

Nitpick #2 The colors of the marine in your IA do not match the miniature you painted. The miniature you painted looks pretty badass. The picture in the IA has boring grey spots and a red mohawk that sticks out like a sore thumb. Still, you did say the miniature you painted was supposed to be a leader of sorts, so that could be a reason why.

 

As far as the mystery for the Chapter goes, I think you're fluctuating way too much. There are points where you just chalk it up to ignorance on behalf of the in universe article author, but, at the same time, that individual knows about Inquisitorial interactions with the Chapter and what their second tier of faith boils down to despite the previous paragraph stating that it's a Chapter secret:

 

This much is known because the Basilisks have, in the past, allowed Imperial agents unrestricted access to their regular rites in an attempt to gain trust within the Inquisition, and it is these rites that suggest another level of doctrine among the Basilisks. This other ‘tier’ of beliefs was repeatedly mentioned during regular rites, in the oratories of their Chaplains. What this second tier is exactly is unknown to any but the brothers of the Chapter, and is referred to simply as The Quest. Every marine seems to be aware of its meaning since both Initiates and Veterans are present when the Chaplains are relaying its urgency and significance. This suggests that the knowledge is planted along with the 19 organs, during hypnotherapy, and this process has always been strictly prohibited from outside view.

In reality, The Quest is simply something of a different perspective of a belief common among the Gorgon’s sons, that one day the Primarch may return. The Basilisks don’t espouse this exact belief, but rather that the bearers of the Iron Hands legacy must become as their Primarch, believing that to do so requires not only mastery of the mechanical, but the literal hands of Ferrus Manus. The Quest is a search for the spawn of Asirnoth, which the Basilisks are convinced exists somewhere in the galaxy, and can grant them the power of the Primarch, or in essence, return His power to the Imperium. How the Chapter adopted this belief is unclear, but it accounts for the haste with which they answer any call from a world with remotely volcanic activity, which has been the only pattern ever detected in their fleet movements.

 

The Survivors Sidebar just feels forced. I'm actually lost reading it because it has no perspective. That's not to say that the events happening are hard to understand, but the significance is lost on me when a Chaplain gives a neophyte who may or may not be expected to fail in the not so distant future for no particular reason with no particular method to the madness. It's the whole Revenge of the Sith problem where Anakin becomes Vader because Palpatine thinks it sounds cool or whatever, not because the name means anything.

 

Another minor one:

 

The Chapter keeps few serfs, but some of the more fortunate unfit recruits are augmented or turned into servitors to assist the Techmarines in their considerable work.

 

I haven't been paying attention to 40k for a little while, mostly working with my own interpretations of the universe after deciding once and for all that I didn't like "Loose Canon," but I distinctly remember the process of becoming a servitor involving nothing short of a lobotomy followed by the enslavement of your physical body to do menial labor after your brain death. I fail to see how this describes "more fortunate" recruits. Then again, the others are being thrown out of the airlock, which is fine, but it makes it somewhat hard to believe that other ships would pick up the bodies to report whatever injuries they may have.

 

There are ideas in the article, but the ideas aren't fleshed out or they're just thrown in without any particular reason.

You mention that they're Iron Hand successors, but that doesn't seem to mean anything aside from influencing their beliefs system which I don't believe is fleshed out very well at the moment. You made a point about despising the weak, but believing in the ability to grow out of it, but it's almost passing in mention that it doesn't seem to matter.

 

After that, we're told that the Basilisks retained the tradition of cutting off their left hands and replacing them with mechanical parts. This implies that the Chapter had some tutelage from the Iron Hands themselves, but that does not seem to factor in here. In fact, the Chapter's entire Origins section appears to be a conglomerate of "we don't know because they're mysterious"

 

The snake lizard creature thing involved in the initiation process hasn't really registered with me. I like to think that it would be important, but the IA doesn't seem to think it's worth mentioning beyond just saying that it's there.

 

My suggestion, give them more legitimate origins, possibly even giving some reason as to why they're in some sort of self imposed isolation. I enjoy how the IA is written from the perspective of someone in universe, but that needs to mean something. Either limit their perspective or don't, but don't do it in such a way where they're bouncing between being clueless and overly informed between sections.

The whole process of assimilating other Chapters is also confusing. The issue of another Gene-Seed conflicting with the chapter aside, I would like to think that new Chapters and their training cadres would be proud of their insignia, and less than eager to join another Chapter. This is even more problematic when they're joining a Chapter that, by all means, should have a negative reputation.

I assumed when I was reading that section that the Chapter was going to be stealing from other Chapters i.e. Alpha Legion and Marines Malevolent, but I'm not sure if you're trying to convey that in another way or if you're trying to convey something else entirely. I like the whole "charmed by the snake" thing, though.

Some of the Chapter's traits like the eyes strike me as "Salamander" although I may be remembering and interpreting that all wrong.

There's another throwaway line about marines becoming monsters.

 

Honestly, there's material to work with, but you need to work with it if it's going to go anywhere. Right now, it's too jumbled with too many intentionally blank spaces without much better reason than "Because 21st Founding."

Best of luck with them!

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

maybe use these suggestions for the symbol? :  basilisk head with body coiled around it, imp aquila with basilisk coile around it (maybe with a basilisk head instead of eagle?), some sort of omonous design with a basilisk skeleton?

[Messor]

Hey, KHK!

KingHongKong, on 07 Apr 2013 - 00:18, said:

The Chapter Symbol sort of screams Fullmetal Alchemist to me, but it's neither here nor there. Objectively it just doesn't look completely put together. The wings look a little off, but I think it really comes down to the crown. For reference, I'd show you the old Izzet League symbol as compared to the new one.

Well, it is the FMA cross, so I can't blame you for that. So are you recommending the more abstract crown over the regular one? And attach the wings, or what?

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Nitpick #1 I hate your subheadings . I don't know if it's just me (it's probably just me), but I really just can't see black on dark green. Your Alpha Hound subheadings are amazing, so this isn't even an issue of ability, just poor color choice. Honestly, they'd probably look fine if you just shifted the text to white.

I wasn't as happy with these either. An appropriate font was hard to find, and ultimately only the scales in the background really came out how I wanted. I kind of wish I could do unique ones for each Chapter, but I haven't found enough variety in brushes.

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Nitpick #2 The colors of the marine in your IA do not match the miniature you painted. The miniature you painted looks pretty badass. The picture in the IA has boring grey spots and a red mohawk that sticks out like a sore thumb. Still, you did say the miniature you painted was supposed to be a leader of sorts, so that could be a reason why.

Initially, I was going to do a single squad of Basilisks, and I have the snake shoulder pads for all of them, so that'd hopefully help. The red is a reference to the one thing about real Basilisk lore that I hate: the chiken/rooster crest. Ugh. It just needed more color, and it was one that fit the lore. Since painting the Champ(Yes, the gold distinguishes leaders. There's a reference to it in the BL story I started for them), I don't know when I'll get around to finishing the squad because that green was the least fun thing I've ever painted. I might divvy their models among other Chapters to boost their numbers and come back to them last. So there's time for improvements to the scheme, if you've suggestions.

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As far as the mystery for the Chapter goes, I think you're fluctuating way too much. There are points where you just chalk it up to ignorance on behalf of the in universe article author, but, at the same time, that individual knows about Inquisitorial interactions with the Chapter and what their second tier of faith boils down to despite the previous paragraph stating that it's a Chapter secret.

May do in part to the original article not appearing 'Cursed' enough, which resulted in a lot of plug-ins. I left much more unknown, both the Quest and the mutations, but feedback said that it felt incomplete. I'm not sure where to strike the balance between mystery/secret and a reveal for narrative's sake.

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The Survivors Sidebar just feels forced. I'm actually lost reading it because it has no perspective. That's not to say that the events happening are hard to understand, but the significance is lost on me when a Chaplain gives a neophyte who may or may not be expected to fail in the not so distant future for no particular reason with no particular method to the madness. It's the whole Revenge of the Sith problem where Anakin becomes Vader because Palpatine thinks it sounds cool or whatever, not because the name means anything.

So the name change is throwing you? It should be an after the trial affair? I suppose that makes good sense. I did get the feeling that something was awkward about the sidebar. Hopefully I get around to adding the missing ones for the other sections.

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I haven't been paying attention to 40k for a little while, mostly working with my own interpretations of the universe after deciding once and for all that I didn't like "Loose Canon," but I distinctly remember the process of becoming a servitor involving nothing short of a lobotomy followed by the enslavement of your physical body to do menial labor after your brain death. I fail to see how this describes "more fortunate" recruits. Then again, the others are being thrown out of the airlock, which is fine, but it makes it somewhat hard to believe that other ships would pick up the bodies to report whatever injuries they may have.

I'm going to be rolling with Griph's advice, having one "crockpot" Inquisitor who's obsessed with proving they aren't what they seem. Everyone else doesn't care, or would rather just let him make a fool of himself until he turns up something they can act(and take all the credit) on. And yeah, 'fortunate' would be surviving recruitment, but not worth implanting.

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You mention that they're Iron Hand successors, but that doesn't seem to mean anything aside from influencing their beliefs system which I don't believe is fleshed out very well at the moment. You made a point about despising the weak, but believing in the ability to grow out of it, but it's almost passing in mention that it doesn't seem to matter.

What else should I include? The Iron Hands thing is bionics, despising the flesh, belief in the Primarch's return. The only thing I think I left out was the clans.

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After that, we're told that the Basilisks retained the tradition of cutting off their left hands and replacing them with mechanical parts. This implies that the Chapter had some tutelage from the Iron Hands themselves, but that does not seem to factor in here. In fact, the Chapter's entire Origins section appears to be a conglomerate of "we don't know because they're mysterious"

I don't know if I want to include more origins, they've already lost most of their mystery. In my mind, I kind of picture them being manipulated by whatever agents of the AdMech that created them, who also believe there's more where Asirnoth came from and want Manus had for the Mechanicum, and indoctrinated the Chapter to believe the same. But I kind of like it up in the air.

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The snake lizard creature thing involved in the initiation process hasn't really registered with me. I like to think that it would be important, but the IA doesn't seem to think it's worth mentioning beyond just saying that it's there.

How much more needs to be said? If it were known to the Imperium at large, they'd be destroyed, it's their Curse.

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My suggestion, give them more legitimate origins, possibly even giving some reason as to why they're in some sort of self imposed isolation. I enjoy how the IA is written from the perspective of someone in universe, but that needs to mean something. Either limit their perspective or don't, but don't do it in such a way where they're bouncing between being clueless and overly informed between sections.

A tall order. No one likes not knowing the secrets of the limited perspective, and the open one doesn't really fit an in universe author(though I don't know if that's what I was aiming for).

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The whole process of assimilating other Chapters is also confusing. The issue of another Gene-Seed conflicting with the chapter aside, I would like to think that new Chapters and their training cadres would be proud of their insignia, and less than eager to join another Chapter. This is even more problematic when they're joining a Chapter that, by all means, should have a negative reputation.

I assumed when I was reading that section that the Chapter was going to be stealing from other Chapters i.e. Alpha Legion and Marines Malevolent, but I'm not sure if you're trying to convey that in another way or if you're trying to convey something else entirely. I like the whole "charmed by the snake" thing, though.

Woah, who's assimilating Chapters? All the Basilisks have taken have been fleet assets, because a huge fleet is great for a snake Chapter. They are stealing, but not from anyone who can say anything about it.

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Honestly, there's material to work with, but you need to work with it if it's going to go anywhere. Right now, it's too jumbled with too many intentionally blank spaces without much better reason than "Because 21st Founding."

Best of luck with them!

Ha, thanks for the feedback, I hope you'll stick around to see what I make of it.

 

@Lord Marshal

I may make some adjustments, but I don't foresee a total revamp of the symbol, at least not for a while. I may develop those into company banners, though.

 

edit: I think I have a better idea about what you meant regarding the gene-seed. Since the section comes at the end it does seem like an abrupt ending. Maybe moving it up will fix that.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Messor

[Donkey Kong]

Yes for the abstract crown. I'd get rid of the old one, and just place the motif over the top arch of the snake. As for the wings, it makes more sense to me now that you're aiming for a cross appearance. In fact, I just looked up the FMA cross for reference. It's been way too long since I've watched the series, I forgot that the snake was superimposed over a cross. I'm honestly not sure what I would do with the wings. Right now they look tacked on, and that effect would be even harder to ignore with a stylized crown. Are the wings necessary? Otherwise, I'd say to imitate the Blood Angels and orient these wings on the opposite ends of the arch.

 

The red mohawk makes more sense with that in mind. Personally, I'd just go all out with it and stick a red helmet on the squad leader/ champion/ etc. I'd even allude to it with the crown in the iconography. Maybe even take it a step up with a beakie helmet.

I do not like the grey on the marine. At all. Green is also a pain to work with, I agree. Too light, and you're looking at toothpaste; too dark and you're looking at Dark Angels. I had something more solid with the Astral Reavers, but I don't think a light green would work for this chapter. I'd lean closer to the Dark Angel colors. Red even manages to look good on it without invoking the Christmas Marine feel.

 

I haven't read the comments closely enough, but I'll second Griph's idea with the crockpot Inquisitor. Also, here's your perspective: Write His journal. It won't necessarily be a nice document to write, but it will be unique, and it will be a very interesting exercise and example if you think you have the ability to pull it off.

On that note, the chapter's pet monster. Don't talk about it then. Make it the Inquisitor's observation. Right now, I have absolutely no idea what it is. The Chimaeras that are currently in some development hell make use of their monsters. The Basilisks aren't striking me as using the monster as anything more than a right of passage. I may just be thick, but I'm genuinely lost with what the monster is supposed to be.

 

Name changes should mean something, I think. I always found the whole practice odd to be honest. It seems unnecessary unless there is actually something to hide. Or you're a Dark Angel and you just like having angelic names despite coming from a homeworld where everyone had angelic names before you destroyed it and then continued the practice of giving everyone angelic names after joining your super secret club... Yeah, Dark Angels man. Dark Angels.

I'll stick with the simpler practice of keeping names. It also avoids that whole Black Templar problem where everyone has a Germanic name despite the fact that we recruit from everywhere.

 

I'll agree that fortunate can involve surviving training. However, that honor should be in becoming a serf. Not a servitor. A lobotomy is not an honor. I'd personally rather be shoved out the airlock.

 

I read the IA and I never got a hint of AdMech influence. It could be a failure on my behalf.

 

As for assimilating other chapters, I must have misread it. I saw the Basilisks taking over the Ash Eagles, not just their fleet. It's fine if they're taking things. However, you do fall into one of two categories with this move: Trophy Takers and Scavengers; In GW/ FW terms: Minotaurs and Marines Malevolent. Everything about the Basilisks in their character points to them being scavengers, however this paragraph strikes me as trophy taking.

 

As for being Iron Hands, you're right. For whatever reason Games Workshop treats one of their more interesting creations with the worst form of contempt: Ignoring them. You're right, they have their bionic hand, they have their ties with the AdMech, they have their belief in the return of Ferrus Manus, and they have their whole "The flesh is weak!!" schtick. If you haven't read Codex Grey's Warriors Eternal, I'd recommend giving that a whirl. Codex Grey spun "The flesh is weak" on it's head and transformed it into weakness of mind. I'd link you to the article in the Lexicanum, but I can't find the Lexicanum.

 

All too often Iron Hand successors are just more Iron Hands. It's not necessarily bad, but it is boring. Best GW example would probably be the Fists and the Templars. You can see where the Templars came from, and you can see where they went with it. Another favorite of mine: Flesh Tearers are better at being Blood Angels than the Blood Angels.

 

The fact that they're picking on pirates doesn't totally float with me. I feel that they'd be too far away unless they're chasing pirates down. Even then, it feels more as though they're doing it for themselves than the good of the Imperium, which is what you're probably aiming for.

 

I don't know if I'm supposed to think that they're good guys or bad guys. Right now, they feel renegade if anything else. It's not bad, it's just different. Keep in mind, this is coming from my perspective. I like good guys, hence being the only bonehead with the mind to make a loyalist space pirate chapter.

 

I'll try and be around a bit more. The Reavers are looking rusty again, and I'd still like to make the Chimaeras look something like an IA instead of a list of bullet points.

[Gripharius]

The monsters, from my reading of it, are the "failed" gene-seed recipients that mutate into huge snake-serpent-lizard monster things. I think.

 

I like KHK's idea of the Inquisitor's journal, that's a good thought. You'll have to work hard to make sure you express the Inquisitor's bias against the Chapter, so the reader won't be able to accept all of the claims the Inquisitor makes in the Journal.... There has to be enough suspicion by the reader that the Inquisitor is a bit off-key so that the reader knows that at least some of the information is exaggerated or possibly imagined.

 

Like the Inquisitor could remark at examining the discarded corpses of Basilisk neophytes and "clearly" seeing signs that it was mauled by some giant serpent creature, but the "backwards" hive-world doctor he enlisted to examine the corpse was too dense and ill-equipped to find any traces of reptile fang marks, and the AdMech priest he confronted with the corpse refused to even inspect it.

 

That may not be the best example, but that's the kind of thing I think you'd have to do to keep it somewhere between related observable facts about the Chapter but also including some unverifiable lore or rumor that you may not want to fully reveal.

[Messor]

Yes for the abstract crown. I'd get rid of the old one, and just place the motif over the top arch of the snake. As for the wings, it makes more sense to me now that you're aiming for a cross appearance. In fact, I just looked up the FMA cross for reference. It's been way too long since I've watched the series, I forgot that the snake was superimposed over a cross. I'm honestly not sure what I would do with the wings. Right now they look tacked on, and that effect would be even harder to ignore with a stylized crown. Are the wings necessary?

Mmm, not a super big fan of the BA wings, but I'll see what I can do. Will put together an abstract crown.

The red mohawk makes more sense with that in mind. Personally, I'd just go all out with it and stick a red helmet on the squad leader/ champion/ etc. I'd even allude to it with the crown in the iconography. Maybe even take it a step up with a beakie helmet.

I do not like the grey on the marine. At all. Green is also a pain to work with, I agree. Too light, and you're looking at toothpaste; too dark and you're looking at Dark Angels. I had something more solid with the Astral Reavers, but I don't think a light green would work for this chapter. I'd lean closer to the Dark Angel colors. Red even manages to look good on it without invoking the Christmas Marine feel.

Does the gray look any better on the model? Me, I don't like red as a color, due to a childhood prejudice against the Red Ranger. What? Seriously though, That's why red is only ever an accent among my marines, never a key part of the scheme. I'm almost equally prejudiced against beakies. I've got them all somewhere, and I had a plan for them, but I can't remember what it was at the moment. This does make it tempting to color the symbol, but the reason most of my symbols are monotone is because once they go on a shoulder pad, they can't blend or clash with it. I don't think it'd cause too much trouble with a gold crown, but I don't know about the rest of it(plus my freehand sucks).

 

I haven't read the comments closely enough, but I'll second Griph's idea with the crockpot Inquisitor. Also, here's your perspective: Write His journal. It won't necessarily be a nice document to write, but it will be unique, and it will be a very interesting exercise and example if you think you have the ability to pull it off.

I've already started some preliminary edits, but I really like this idea. I'll definitely have to try it. I'd be more excited if it weren't the second :cussing rewrite I'll need to do.

On that note, the chapter's pet monster. Don't talk about it then. Make it the Inquisitor's observation. Right now, I have absolutely no idea what it is. The Chimaeras that are currently in some development hell make use of their monsters. The Basilisks aren't striking me as using the monster as anything more than a right of passage. I may just be thick, but I'm genuinely lost with what the monster is supposed to be.

Monsters, plural. I think you missed this: the "monster" that the Inquisitor is speculating about are the failed initiates. The recruitment cycle is as follows, according to success: initial tests->trial in the one ship->implantation. Those who FAIL implantation more often then not become bestial killers and are released into the ship. Those who survive move on with their careers. The trial of the NEXT batch of recruits is to hunt and kill the FAILED of the previous batch. Does that make sense? That's why the "specimen" is confusing to outsiders: there's no reason to think it's genetic corruption, but the Chapter has never been seen collecting any kind of creature.

Name changes should mean something, I think. I always found the whole practice odd to be honest. It seems unnecessary unless there is actually something to hide. Or you're a Dark Angel and you just like having angelic names despite coming from a homeworld where everyone had angelic names before you destroyed it and then continued the practice of giving everyone angelic names after joining your super secret club... Yeah, Dark Angels man. Dark Angels.

I'll stick with the simpler practice of keeping names. It also avoids that whole Black Templar problem where everyone has a Germanic name despite the fact that we recruit from everywhere.

Well all the names that I've collected for the Basilisks(obviously not a Chapter's worth, but enough for story telling) come from snake lore and legend. Losing the name is the first layer of lower/weaker humanity shed towards becoming an Astartes warrior and transcending mortality.

I'll agree that fortunate can involve surviving training. However, that honor should be in becoming a serf. Not a servitor. A lobotomy is not an honor. I'd personally rather be shoved out the airlock.

Agreed. I don't even remember if I had a reason for having few serfs, but they need them to man a larger than average fleet, so I'll amend that.

I read the IA and I never got a hint of AdMech influence. It could be a failure on my behalf.

No, no failure on your part, it's not there. That's just a possible reason I made up on the spot(which actually beginneth to look appealing)

As for assimilating other chapters, I must have misread it. I saw the Basilisks taking over the Ash Eagles, not just their fleet. It's fine if they're taking things. However, you do fall into one of two categories with this move: Trophy Takers and Scavengers; In GW/ FW terms: Minotaurs and Marines Malevolent. Everything about the Basilisks in their character points to them being scavengers, however this paragraph strikes me as trophy taking.

More or less right.

As for being Iron Hands, you're right. For whatever reason Games Workshop treats one of their more interesting creations with the worst form of contempt: Ignoring them. You're right, they have their bionic hand, they have their ties with the AdMech, they have their belief in the return of Ferrus Manus, and they have their whole "The flesh is weak!!" schtick. If you haven't read Codex Grey's Warriors Eternal, I'd recommend giving that a whirl. Codex Grey spun "The flesh is weak" on it's head and transformed it into weakness of mind. I'd link you to the article in the Lexicanum, but I can't find the Lexicanum.

 

All too often Iron Hand successors are just more Iron Hands. It's not necessarily bad, but it is boring. Best GW example would probably be the Fists and the Templars. You can see where the Templars came from, and you can see where they went with it. Another favorite of mine: Flesh Tearers are better at being Blood Angels than the Blood Angels.

I mostly tried to separate them from the IH with their beliefs. Now kind of amazing turn around of "spurn the flesh", but a slightly different approach, and driven by their beliefs regarding the Primarch.

The fact that they're picking on pirates doesn't totally float with me. I feel that they'd be too far away unless they're chasing pirates down. Even then, it feels more as though they're doing it for themselves than the good of the Imperium, which is what you're probably aiming for.

 

I don't know if I'm supposed to think that they're good guys or bad guys. Right now, they feel renegade if anything else. It's not bad, it's just different. Keep in mind, this is coming from my perspective. I like good guys, hence being the only bonehead with the mind to make a loyalist space pirate chapter.

You're probably right. I think I'd like to focus more on the isolation or the bouncing between volcanic worlds. They definitely shouldn't look like good guys. Loyalist, but total :cussholes. Not a shred of humanitarianism or compassion, probably not even much consideration for each other.

I'll try and be around a bit more. The Reavers are looking rusty again, and I'd still like to make the Chimaeras look something like an IA instead of a list of bullet points.

I did miss hearing about the loyalist space pirates. If that's not enough to keep you lurking, I'll try to make this interesting enough.

[Messor]

Does anyone know if the Dark Mechanicus is capable of infiltrating the AdMech? I've heard the term DarkMech agent thrown around before, but it wasn't clear what that entailed. The thought KHK gave me that perhaps the Basilisks were made to be owned or controlled by a Mechanicus (could be Mars or Chaos) is really appealing, and since I'm leaning towards the Dark Mechanicus, I want to be sure they can get away with it before starting the rewrite. My thought is that these agents try to manipulate the Chapter (possibly through their cybernetics) and are the real driving force behind the Basilisks' Quest, but at some point, probably in the story and not the IA, the Chapter discovers this and works out what happened to them as well as the Baal Pythons.

[FunkyMonkey]

I think Dark Mechanicus means those who tech priests who are associated with the forces of Chaos and the Warp.

 

There are Hereteks, which seem to merely mean those who delve into forbidden knowledge such as warp-based technomancy or renounce their belief in the AdMech's narrow interpretation of the Omnissiah.  Most Hereteks probably end up joining the Dark Mechanicus, but I think Dark Mechanicus is generally meant to refer to Kelbor Hal's group from the Schism of Mars as well as those who pledged service later on.

 

I suppose the relationship is kind of like Asartes, Renegade Astartes, and Chaos Astartes.

 

So I doubt Dark Mechanicus priests could infiltrate the Adeptus, but perhaps some AdMech could become closet Hereteks.

Edited September 7, 2013 by FunkyMonkey

[Messor]

Ok, that's more or less what I understood from the resources I had. I'll probably roll with some "closet Hereteks" in high places, then. Appreciate the input!

[Messor]

Did some minor fixes and some larger overhauls to accommodate some of the ancient feedback I never got around to incorporating, and added some new flavor text. I keep trying to do sidebars, and they bloat out of control. Still thought it was fun enough to keep. The only other change I'm planning to make at this point is a slight retooling of the chapter icon, and maybe the headers.