Chaos Lord on Juggy and Bikes

[Loher]

Guys if i join a bike unit with my Juggy Lord, can i turbo boost during shooting phase and take the 4+ jink cover? Turbo boost would be slowed by the Lord run (i.e. D6)?

Soz for the nubish question and I would really appreciate your help :P.

[Vesper]

They couldn't, because the juggernaut your lord is riding on can't turboboost.

[Attomsk]

They couldn't, because the juggernaut your lord is riding on can't turboboost.

 

Can't the lord roll to run and the bikes turbo boost to keep up? I do believe that is allowed. This however will allow for your lord to be focus fired due to not having a jink save. The unit just has to move as fast as it's slowest member.

[Fibonacci]

Guys if i join a bike unit with my Juggy Lord, can i turbo boost during shooting phase and take the 4+ jink cover?

Movement is now done per model and not by unit. Meaning some models can remain still and count as having not moved while others from the same unit can freely move around them. Every model may move at it's own speed as long as it remains in unit coherency. You may only join or leave a unit during the movement phase and when an IC joins a unit, it can no longer move in that movement phase. So yes, you can turbo-boost your bikes and run with the jugger as long as they all remain in unit coherency thus giving the bikes the jink save.

 

Turbo boost would be slowed by the Lord run (i.e. D6)?

Turbo boost is not slowed by the lord's speed. Every model moves at it's own speed. They are limited to staying in unit coherency, however.

[Loher]

Thanks for the input guys :P.

[Fibonacci]

The unit just has to move as fast as it's slowest member.

Not any more. See page 10 under "Different Movement Distances Within a Unit"

[Agerjag]

From my reading all the rules, they can in fact turbo boost. It does not state that the entire unit must boost like the run rules do. Problem is bikes cant run and the entire unit must run. So the lord cannot run, the bikes may boost and you have to stay in coherency. It seems really messed up, but thats how it is written, I have looked into this heavily would love some other interpretations though.

[Fibonacci]

From my reading all the rules, they can in fact turbo boost. It does not state that the entire unit must boost like the run rules do. Problem is bikes cant run and the entire unit must run. So the lord cannot run, the bikes may boost and you have to stay in coherency. It seems really messed up, but thats how it is written, I have looked into this heavily would love some other interpretations though.

 

This looks the worst case outcome to me. I don't think doing one prevents the other. The unit chooses to run and all those models able to run do so. The bikes are still free to turbo-boost.

 

But on the other hand, a unit chooses to Run instead of shooting and bikes can turbo-boost instead of shooting but if the unit already gave up shooting by declaring a run, is there still shooting to be given up in order to turbo-boost?

 

To me is sounds like splitting hairs. When the unit chooses to run, I think the bikes automatically turbo-boost since that is what they do instead of running. But the worst you can do is turbo-boost the bikes 0.1" (up to 12") and leave the lord where it is. The bikes get jink and the lord, of course, does not. But then he never would in any possible case.

[Hellrender]

If i recall correctly, jugger is cavalry, which movesup to 12''. Bikes can turboboost up to 12'' or move normally up to 12''. This is atleast what the small brb says..

 

Turboboost does not specify anything about the whole unit needing to boost, like the rules for run do specify.

 

So, as i interpretate it, you can do it, but your juggerlord wont get the cover save, and can be focusfired. So altough your unit gets saver, it might cost you the lord.

[Vesper]

Well, still had the old Turboboost in mind...

[Slayer le Boucher]

So of what i understand is that a Lord on Steed(excepte for the Nurgle Palanquin), can join a unit of bikes, they all move 12, in the shooting phase the Lord run, and the Bikes Turbo-boost, you move all the models so that they stay in unit cohesion.

 

Now Only the bikes have a Jink save, but seeing that the Lord is in the unit, you will make saves on the units majority anyway, so the Lord is relativly protected if you place him right, the only case where this might be a problem is if he get snipped by a Sniper or Precision shots from a ennemy character.

 

If so then its something worth the effort i think.

[Fibonacci]

you will make saves on the units majority anyway,

No, you wound against the majority toughness but you save individually.

 

And as has ben said, your opponent can claim focus fire and all shots will go against only those models without a cover save. That's the jug lord in this case.

[Azekai]

Can't you still LO,S the focus fire? I don't have my BBRB handy.

[Slayer le Boucher]

you will make saves on the units majority anyway,

No, you wound against the majority toughness but you save individually.

 

And as has ben said, your opponent can claim focus fire and all shots will go against only those models without a cover save. That's the jug lord in this case.

 

The opponent cannot Claim Focus fire, only characters on roll of 6's can do that, or are you speaking of something else?

[Agerjag]

So the focus fire thing is very strangely worded and I cannot check the faq from my present location. The book says you use focus fire to shoot at units that are in partially in cover and you get two choices. Strictly speaking bikes in the open are not in cover but do get a cover save. Unless this is clarified I think we are ok. In the end though you get 2+Look out sir roles for ICs so its not the worst even if this gets clarified against us.

 

Also to be clear from earlier, it says bikes cannot run, that means they cannot as a unit choose to run, so the lord cannot either. They can turbo boost to get the 4 up and potentially a few inches as long as they are still close enough to be in coherency with the lord.

 

I should also mention that I am speaking PURELY from a RAW(rules as written) perspective and I do not know what GW was intending for these rules.

[Lepaca]

you will make saves on the units majority anyway,

No, you wound against the majority toughness but you save individually.

 

And as has ben said, your opponent can claim focus fire and all shots will go against only those models without a cover save. That's the jug lord in this case.

 

The opponent cannot Claim Focus fire, only characters on roll of 6's can do that, or are you speaking of something else?

 

Focus Fire means that your shots only hit those models in a unit that lack a cover save.

You're talking about Precision Shots, which is indeed a character thing.

[Fibonacci]

you will make saves on the units majority anyway,

No, you wound against the majority toughness but you save individually.

 

And as has ben said, your opponent can claim focus fire and all shots will go against only those models without a cover save. That's the jug lord in this case.

 

The opponent cannot Claim Focus fire, only characters on roll of 6's can do that, or are you speaking of something else?

Page 18 under the heading Focus Fire of all things ...

[Commander Krag]

Wait does this mean that the bikes would also benefit from the lords fleet for charging?

[Fibonacci]

So the focus fire thing is very strangely worded and I cannot check the faq from my present location. The book says you use focus fire to shoot at units that are in partially in cover and you get two choices. Strictly speaking bikes in the open are not in cover but do get a cover save. Unless this is clarified I think we are ok. In the end though you get 2+Look out sir roles for ICs so its not the worst even if this gets clarified against us.

 

Also to be clear from earlier, it says bikes cannot run, that means they cannot as a unit choose to run, so the lord cannot either. They can turbo boost to get the 4 up and potentially a few inches as long as they are still close enough to be in coherency with the lord.

 

I should also mention that I am speaking PURELY from a RAW(rules as written) perspective and I do not know what GW was intending for these rules.

Jink gives the model a 5+ cover save. If it turbo-boosts, it instead gets a 4+ cover save. No "counts as" or anything like that. It gets a cover save.

 

When doing a Focus Fire, you pick a cover save value. Wounds can only be applied to models with a cover save equal to or worse than the value stated. It does not matter if they are "in cover," only that they have a cover save.

[Fibonacci]

Can't you still LO,S the focus fire? I don't have my BBRB handy.

Yes.

 

And as strange as it may seem, the bikes can jump in front of the bullet to save the lord only to jink and duck out of the way of the bullet and not be hit. :lol:

 

Roll to wound, allocate wounds, make any look out sir rolls, make best save possible. So yes, all wounds could be applied to the lord because of focus fire and being an IC, it is very likely all wounds would then pass via LO,S to the bikes that would then make their saves (armor saves usually ... or 4+ cover)

 

Wound resolution may be more "cenimatic" now but it is not nearly as fast.

[Agerjag]

It does state in cover, first paragraph p.18. Nothing even mentions cover save until the second paragraph after you have made a choice. So STRICTLY speaking (and maybe against the rules intent) it only applies to cover saves granted by actual cover. How you play this in your crew if up to them of course as the intent could be either way. Ill check the faq later to see if this has already been clarified. In any case you still get LoutS on a 2+ and I assume your lord has a sigil as well making it unlikely to get him killed even if your crew rules it the other way.

 

The main problem with the wording is that it also talks about being more more hidden which does not apply to turbo boost or moving skimmer save and such. Do bikes that can jink count as "in cover" all the time? or does it grant them a cover save? Do any units that have a cover save count as in cover regardless of how they got the save?, this will also effect night fighting depending on the interpretation because as written it just says you can use it to shoot at units that are paritally IN COVER, and then it goes to specify how you do that by choosing a save value and so on.

 

Also on the fleet thing, fleet only works if the unit is entirely made out of fleet models so would not help the unit or the lord at all.

[Fibonacci]

It does state in cover, first paragraph p.18. Nothing even mentions cover save until the second paragraph after you have made a choice. So STRICTLY speaking (and maybe against the rules intent) it only applies to cover saves granted by actual cover.

as with most rules, the first paragraph is fluff. The second part is the rule. It is even written in big, bold letters how you pick a cover save. Boldly speaking, it applies to cover saves no matter how you get them :lol:

I really don't think there is a state of being in cover as opposed to having a cover save from some other source anyway. If you have a cover save then you are in cover and vice versa.

 

BTW,

Thanks for bringing this up, Verythrax. I can see where this will become more common with the better generic lords on steeds and better chaos bikes to escort them now.

[Agerjag]

It states in bold that you have to make your choice based on the things above it. If you believe that a cover save means you are always in cover then it still works as you said. I just cant be sure until it is FAQ'd. I will most likely play it as you are playing it for the time being as I believe it is most likely the intent of the rule. RAWwise its annoying to tell, but thats how gw always writes books.

 

Oh yea, i dont know if you read what i said about running, but do you agree that you cannot run the lord? Read bikes under turbo boost and running. I would like to see others opinions as my interpretation will allow TB but not running by the lord.

[Hellrender]

Lord cannot run, unless his unit runs along, which they can't. He can run alone though.

[Sception]

Just don't do it. It's a completely unnecessary rules clusterfludge, and for what? Just put your lord on a bike like everyone else and have done with it, or if you just can't give up the jugger, then have the lord join some spawn instead. Either way saves a ton of completely unnecessary confusion.