Calnus Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 With some games of 6th under my belt, and a solid tournament expereince, I've come to the conclusion that my previous hybrid force of pure Blood Angels awesomeness has a few weak spots. Trimming the underperformers, I have a "core" list of 1450pts worth of straight-up marine efficiency. Now the question arises, do I add back in 550pts of BA to maximize priest buffs and transport usage, or do I add in allies? And which allies would be best for the things the core list lacks? So here's my core list: Librarian, JP Priest x2, JP and PW each ASM x10, MG x2, PW ASM x10, MG x2, PW ASM x10, MG x2, PF Stormraven, TL AC, TL MM, HB sponsons Stormraven, TL AC, TL MM, HB Sponsons The things I'm having trouble with are deploying enough to enable me to deep strike the marines, knocking out annoying tanks/heavy weapons at range before they chew up said marines, and breaking terminators. Generally, survivability is lower than I liked in 5th, and I need to fix that. I'm finding that if I can arrange for the bulk of even one squad with attached IC to hit an enemy, they crumple fairly well. Its just become significantly harder with people bringing 4+ Vindicators at 2000pts to have anything left to hit with! So what would the more expereinced players recommend for allies? Or is there something in teh codex I've overlooked that can help me survive better? I was thinking of IG allies to start with... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMek83 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 IG is good. They go very well with all Space Marines. I am tad partial to "Angelic Host" Dark Angels Providing Heavy support and such Blood Angels. (BS 5 Venerable dreadnought or Mortis Dread with Interceptor / Skyfire rules and 2x TL lascannons, will ruin not just tanks but flyers days too ^^) and possibility to get mixed weapons scoring Terminators (Lightwning claw and SS/TH termies with pf/Storm bolters or assault cannon there). Combine Dark Angels plasma-ness to BA Melta spam. It will be quite tough. DA focus shooting and getting fearless or stubborn troops... And their Libby can get force field which is invulnerable save based on Leadership test psychic power... ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3224278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 SW to get ultra rune priest , GH which are one of the best troops ever and a possible LF unit as hvy support is another option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3224325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mapple Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I believe that 550 points of BA is going to be better in this situation since you need deployable, on the table toughness. For 550 points of Blood Angels, I can recommend any of these builds: BA Way 1: Tacticals with Plasma gun and Plasma cannon, Priest + PW, Baal Predator with TLAC and Hvy Bolters, Predator + AC/LC. This is 530 points, gives you 3 units to sit in the back or midfield and shoot. I deploy my Baals on the table more often than not in 6th edition anyways because the huge weight of fire is nice, and I try to get side shots with the scout move of 6" plus 1st turn 6" making 12" total before shooting. Tacticals can shoot terminators with plasma and light vehicles. Lots of dice rolls and AP2 is what you need. Predator is great at the 54" game, moving 6" and shooting 48". It stays out of range of other threats really well. Deploy it 53" from something and watch their lascannons miss. It's awesome. BA Way 2: 10 Terminators with Assault Cannons and Corbulo - this is 565 points, so slightly over costed but you can sacrifice one of the PW on a sergeant and get it, or take a Priest in Terminator Armor for 545. Combat squad the terminators if there's that many things to shoot at and put the two Assault Cannons in one squad to shoot at armor and stormbolters in the rest to shoot infantry. Corbulo is about twice as resilient as a Sanguinary Priest in Terminator armor except against S8 or higher since Corbulo's saves go in this order: 2+ LOS -> 3+ armor save -> 2+ FNP, compared to a normal priest in terminator armor's 2+ LOS -> 2+ armor -> 5+ FNP. Put these guys in midfield, and watch your opponent move to the flanks to stay out of their 24" range. BA Way 3: Priest on foot, 5 Devastators with 1 LC + 3 Missles, 2 Tactical Squads with 15 points for special weapons, so lascannon/plasma cannon/meltagun/flamer or similar combination. I like using the lascannon Devestator to provide the high armor punch when missiles would most likely just glance, and the priest can sit in the middle of this shooty triangle to provide support, running from unit to unit as they get shot down and act like ablative wounds. The two longer range heavy weapons in the tacticals can be combat squadded, but don't need to, to shoot more targets. Bolters to soften up whatever your assaulters are going to punch will help them win more decisively. All these units I've suggested are 3+ or 2+ with FNP, or AV13, so you're pretty resilient and it would be an amazingly Beardy Grey Knights or Necrons that would have the chance to completely wipe you off the board before turn 2, but the chances are slim to none. The IG suggestion is good since you can get heavy weapons in the scoring troops, or plasma spam vets/squads and quite a few separate squads that act as different units in different AV12 bodies, like Chimeras. The mix of plasma/melta could help you with your Terminator cracking or heavy weapon squads with orders can pop transports/vehicles. I would do IG allies 1 of 2 ways. Way 1: Get 1 Company Command Squad with Chimera and 3x plasma guns and 1 Infantry Platoon with the mandatory 2 squads and platoon command all in separate Chimeras with heavy weapons/melta/plasma until you hit 550pts and have 3 scoring units, 4 deployable. It's 12 hull points for a bit less than 550 points. Way 2: Company Command Squad for cheap with Chimera. Squad of Vets in a Chimera with melta/plasma/flamer. Then add Ordinance battery or a Leman Russ to taste. This means 2 squads in AV12, and a AV14 beast sitting across the table. Either way is a great way to complement your fast charging Angels as listed by having the IG sitting in your deployment zone or moving to midfield and giving off lots of shots. You don't need Vendettas if you're using Stormravens (I think), but if you don't mind trading the two Stormravens back in for 2 Vendettas, that frees up 140 more points, which is a whole Predator with AC/LC. Then you can use some of those Heavy slots of your Blood Angels for ANOTHER Predator. Then at 36" and more, you have a whole MESS of shots coming across the table with good tank hunting ability. You do sacrifice the ability to shoot 1 additional target from the Stormravens (can shoot 2 targets each, where 2 Vendettas in a squadron and 2 Predators can shoot 3), but that's up to your play style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3224388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 SW to get ultra rune priest , GH which are one of the best troops ever and a possible LF unit as hvy support is another option. ^ This! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3224538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Tau. Yes I'm serious. If you have problems with Vindies, what better way to fix that than with some TL S10 Ap1 72" range tank busting power? Try this: Shas'El - Twin Missile Pods, Adv. Stab. System, HW Target Lock, HW Drone Controler, Irridium Armour, 2 Shield Drones 133 6 Fire Warriors 60 6 Fire Warriors 60 3 XV-88 - Team Leader w/ HW Target Lock, Black Sun Filter, HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drone, Team Member w/ Drone Controller & 2 Shield Drones, Team Member w/ Target Lock. 288 The Shas'El give the whole squad S&P, making it easier to line up good shots, and you have 3 TL railguns that can all fire at different targets. And they ignore Night Fight. You also have 2 rather crappy FW squads to hold rear objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3224599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'd definitely go with the space wolves. Rune priest grey hunters and a long dang squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3224910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I disagree with the Long Fangs-- your list is ultra aggressive, so I would take a Jumper Runepriest to join your Assault Marines, grab a Drop-Pod full of Grey Hunters, and fill the final points with Thunderwolf Cavalry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3224942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviox Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm building an allied section looking like this using GK: -HQ: Inquisitor Chevak -Troops: 5 servitors (2 Hvy. bolters, 1 multi-melta) and 2 Crusaders (attached with Chevak) -Troops: 4 Warrior acolytes (1 meltagun) -Elite: Vindicare Assassin The idea is that since BA are elitist force with expensive objective holders, I'm delegating holding one objective to the cheap warrior acolyte squad (26 pts!). Chevak and the other squad will provide fire support and Divination psychic powers for the main advance BA forces with the crusaders soaking incoming fire. The assassin will snipe enemy heavy weapons and sergeants. All this costs 351 points (or 206 without the assassin for smaller games) which I think is cheap for what you get. In addition, using imperial bastion as a LOS tower for the assassin works great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3225017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatcaber Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 My friend has jumped on the 'Grey Knight bandwagon' to aid his DA, I've not won a game with my BA yet (only had 3, to be fair, and these weren't serious games) so I've opted to take some SW as allies instead of the SoB which were my original choice. I'll be taking two Grey Hunters units, they are like our tactical squads only cheaper and better, they don't get access to a heavy weapon but that won't bother me. Long Fangs are like our Devastators only cheaper and better, plus they can split fire and take an extra missile launcher or other heavy weapon. One squad of these chaps for me, please! Also, I'm considering a Rune Priest and a Lone Wolf to attach to each GH squad, while the LF's will sit back supporting my tactical terminators. My army is more balanced (?) instead of all out assault, so the inclusion of the SW will allow me to hold my own DZ as well as take on the enemies - that's the theory, anyway. So, I am opting for SW allies for my BA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3225300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnus Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 I like the ideas you guys have all thrown out, thanks! For my first try, I think I'll put together something similar to CAG's suggestion of jump HQ and drop pod GH squad. Now, I'm wondering if I couldn't make a nifty assault unit out of a Thunderwolf-mounted Lord for the HQ and 3-4 cav units for more choppy threat, combined with drop pod 5-man squad with a melta. Do you all think that 3 assault squads (with priest/libby support) are good enough for combat kills? If I add TWC, I'm sure to get more on that front, but I'm worried about Hammer and Anvil or even Vanguard if I have to run across the board to get into combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3225407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I was wondering about adding some GKs and I posted this over on there board. While it helped a little bit here is a quote that stood out: That being said, what do you want your allies to bring? What can the GK do for you, that you can't already do from your parent list? This can be applied to all allies. Think of your list and what you want it to do, then fill in the gap with some allies :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3225411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rainbow Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'd plump for either SW or IG (predictably). They either bring anti-psyker and some nifty abilities (SW) which fit in pretty well with the assault oriented BA or blobs of dudesmen and cheap firepower (IG). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3225458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mapple Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I played a hammer of wrath game a week ago. It's still just a 24" dead zone in the middle, so you can get there just as quick as you could in other deployment types if you line up at the front. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3225708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokhar Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Also, I'm considering a Rune Priest and a Lone Wolf to attach to each GH squad, while the LF's will sit back supporting my tactical terminators. Assuming you meant Wolf Guard instead of Lone Wolf, since those guys are always units of one model. Just remember there's a trade-off to be made if you want to mount them in Rhinos (which usually isn't a bad option)--Grey Hunters have to have 10 guys to get the 2nd special weapon, so if you add a Wolf Guard either you lose the second (free!) special weapon, or you lose the ability to mount everyone in a Rhino. Now if you opt for foot or drop pod instead, no worries. The Rune Priest getting a jump pack and joining a BA Assault Squad is pretty sweet, since the two codexes are battle brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3225750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 GH are pretty darned good at holding objectives. If you can take 2 Grey Hunter packs and a Long Fang pack, the minimum 3 Wolf Guard pack is worth taking too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3225777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy12009 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I have a similar list but I include 2 baals. You might try necrons with a command barge and 2 squads of warriors with flying transports. Hunker down for the first turn by deploying as far back in a corner as possible (or split your army in both corners). Use the flyers to clear the area of threats and use your troopers as mop up units. The key is patience. Don't rush headlong into the fire. Soften your target area first and then push in when there's little to no resistance. It's not an alpha strike list, but turn three or four you'll really be laying down the hurt. You didn't mention how you equip your ravens. Be sure to put multimeltas on them so you can blast the vindis or other tanks as you move up. Ravens have a machine spirit so you can use anti personnel weapons without impacting your tank hunting. If you come accross something that MUST die this turn, for example because you're about to fly over it, throw some missiles at it with the multi melta just for insurance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3226804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatcaber Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Also, I'm considering a Rune Priest and a Lone Wolf to attach to each GH squad, while the LF's will sit back supporting my tactical terminators. Assuming you meant Wolf Guard instead of Lone Wolf, since those guys are always units of one model. Just remember there's a trade-off to be made if you want to mount them in Rhinos (which usually isn't a bad option)--Grey Hunters have to have 10 guys to get the 2nd special weapon, so if you add a Wolf Guard either you lose the second (free!) special weapon, or you lose the ability to mount everyone in a Rhino. Now if you opt for foot or drop pod instead, no worries. The Rune Priest getting a jump pack and joining a BA Assault Squad is pretty sweet, since the two codexes are battle brothers. No, I meant the Lone Wolf (if I meant Wolf Guard I'd have said Wolf Guard ;) ). I'll want 10 GH per squad and, I think, the WG would take the place of the tenth man which means I couldn't get the second free special weapon, as you said. Did you mean that the Lone Wolf can't join units? I don't as of yet have the SW codex and pieced together what I wanted doing research on the web... Ordered it yesterday, though. Also, I'm not taking any vehicles at all in my army, just a few Drop Pods to get key units into my opponents face! Would I be allowed to stick a BA Terminator Librarian with a 10-man GH squad in a SW Drop Pod? If the LW can't join units and I'm allowed to do that, then that is an acceptable alternative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3226904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Funnily enough the Lone Wolf cannot join units, no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3226908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatcaber Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Well, not having access to the Codex, couldn't really tell for sure ;) Plus, the blog I was reading didn't specify it either way. More wishful thinking on my part, I suppose... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3226940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 We don't need allies! We can win on our own! If I was to do allies, Wolves or IG would probably top my list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3227031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 IG are good to use as screens. SW are good to use for the superior Psykers and 'tactical' Troops. Grey Knights are good for Coteaz and....well Grey Knights. But why take allies when you can take Stormravens and Mephiston? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3227048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 IG are good to use as screens. SW are good to use for the superior Psykers and 'tactical' Troops. Grey Knights are good for Coteaz and....well Grey Knights. But why take allies when you can take Stormravens and Mephiston? Storm Ravens and Mephiston are not necessarily going to fix every issue that come up with BA. I think overall, IG are just a fantastic addition to a BA army, because they shore up our biggest weakness: low model count. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3227078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 It was in jest. But the basis stands. When you start allying in IG, if you want to play that way.... you are probably better off playing IG with BA allies instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3227127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokhar Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Did you mean that the Lone Wolf can't join units? I don't as of yet have the SW codex and pieced together what I wanted doing research on the web... Ordered it yesterday, though. Would I be allowed to stick a BA Terminator Librarian with a 10-man GH squad in a SW Drop Pod? If the LW can't join units and I'm allowed to do that, then that is an acceptable alternative. That's exactly what i meant. Lone Wolves have a rule stipulating that they are ALWAYS one model units. They aren't independent characters to join others, and no other models can ever join them. As to your second question, yes and no. Yes, a BA Terminator Libby could join a Grey Hunter squad because IC's are allowed to join units that are selected from a battle brothers ally. However, models can never embark on allied vehicles, so no, you can't put the Libby with the Grey Hunters in a pod. If you want characters joining the Grey Hunters, it'll have to be either Wolf Guard or your Rune Priest. Honestly, I don't see much point in the Wolf Guard leaders. Having 10 guys gives you a free second special weapon, the squad is allowed to take a "hidden" (ie non-character) power weapon (go with the axe!) in the squad, and you don't have to worry about being escorted off the table on the offchance that they break anymore. When I run Wolves allies, my intent is to run two squads of Grey Hunters (probably in Rhinos, though it might be tempting to actually get some use out of my pair of Drop Pod models) with 10 guys each and double plasma. The Rune Priest will get a jump pack and run with one of my squads of BA Assault Marines--the better to use those sweet, sweet Divination powers, and also to get him closer to the enemy to neutralize psychic powers with his runic weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264614-adding-allies-which-and-why/#findComment-3227144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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