Making the switch to Grey Knights

[Kickrock]

I am a previous Blood Angel player. Orks and Chaos before that. So, that being said, I value CC but know the power of shooting. That is why I chose to make a GK army, as it can do both better than Blood Angels, I just lose the mobility. What I am ultimatly looking for is an foot army that can stand mid field and win. But I don't want to lose that CC ability. In my area melee armies (Khorne Chaos, Orks, D-Eldar) are seen quite a bit and Blood Angels are aways a scare, but I do not want to loose that ability to fight back in CC.

 

Origionally, my Troops and HQ were simple for my core; Librarian and Strike Squads with Psycannons. I saw this is what a lot of people use. Fairly cheap (comparied to alternatives) and versitile. But, after doing some digging I came across Purifiers. Attractive CC rules, Vet stats, extra heavy weapons. The downside was the tax for Crowe and their price hike. I saw they were amazing in 5th edition but did read how they transfered over into 6th. I assume they were not hurt at all, if they didn't get better but seeing the move towards high body counts, how do they compare to Strike Squads? Are Purifiers still that win all Troop Choice, or has the move towards higher body count armies pushed Strike Squads up on the list? Should I even consider this when I can just take Cortez and Henchmen to buff that model count at low costs? I can see Cortez and Henchmen as a fix for the cost of Purifiers, however I see it synergyzing with Strike Squads even more allowing you to place more on the table.

 

Transports are a touchy subject to me. I understand the need for Transports, and love the idea of a cheap metal box to put my troop in as they move up field! This can not be ignored, however I want to move away from them when possible. That, and the above statement about a Foot List being mentioned I don't want to rule out Razorbacks. Specially S6 Psy-Bolter Razorbacks. For Strike Squads and Purifiers Rhinos are prefered. I know this. You hvae two access hatches, and Strike Squads have two Psycannons. This allows you to put down fire as you move. But in an army such as I want to run, where my guys are on ground, mid field exploiting cover, are Rhinos really reaquired? For under 50 points I can take those Psy-Bolter Razorbacks giving me a nice shooting platform, a wall to place in front of units if need be, and a transport for that wonderful 150 point Tax on Purifiers if I decide to take those (which... I like them too much not to). In a NON-TRANSPORT capacity, are Psy-Bolter Razorbacks worth the points you spend for that multipurpose S6 shooting platform, or are those points better spent elsewhere? Specifically places like Cortez and Henchmen.

 

Heavy Support is a nice area with not a lot of options. You have the time tested Psy-Dreads, who took a nice hit in 6th edition. Not in relation to their fire power, but their survivability. Then you have the Up and Coming Dreadknight, who is now an unstoppable monster. 2+ armor, which is near unstoppable in CC, but has AP2 Weapons at S6 with rerolls. Only thing that scares this monster are Lasscannon Devistators and Hammernators. When points are not an option, 100% of the time I will take a Dreadknights. The model is cool, the I love the concept and it just rips things apart. But when considering competivie play, be it tournament, leagues or pride, do Dreadknights now out perform Psy-Dreadnoughts? The Dreadnoughts are extreamly cheaper compaired to a Teleport / Greatsword Dreadknight, you can almost field two for the price of one. Do they synergize well together when taking both? Take a couple of Dreads and points permiting, throw this beast in? Yes, the Dreadknight draws all enemy fire from your opponent, allowing you to get into optimal position with little harassment by the enemy. But this comes at a huge cost of points! And if your oppnent has the AP, S, and dice rolls to take that monster down, you're out 200 points. The cheaper, safer Dreadnoughts cannot play that global taunt game the Dreadknights do, but give you that overall better fire support, and do it from safer positions.

 

You have my 3 main questions or points of discussion. but I'll say them again for clarity.

 

In regards to points, body count and performance; Do Strike Squads now out perform Purifiers in that Troop Slot, or are Purifiers still as mean as ever in a foot based list?

When not used as transports, are Psy-Bolter / Psy-Assault Cannon razorbacks worth the points as a cheap fire platform WITH transport capabilities, or are the points better spent elswhere? Does Combat Squad Halbert Purifers and a Crowe Transport make a difference in this area if that was the route I took?

Have Dreadnoughts lost their touch? In a competitive aspect, are the Dreadnoughts still the safer choice or have Dreadknights moved being those near unstoppable Melee monsters they are now?

 

 

And a third question, I am going to make Henchmen. What I want are 3 Plasma Cannon servators, a Squad of 10 Warriors, max out special weapons, and a squad of 7 Deathcult / 3 SS Crusaders. What is the cheapest and best modeling method you found for these? For the;

 

Servators I had no good ideas... I was going to buy the models, then thought about ripping off Catcham Jungler Fighters arms and placing Storm Raven Plasma Cannons on there. It would work, but I don't know appearance wise how it would look and like those models too much to waste them.

Warriors I was going to use Cadians, and just model 3 with Plasma guns and 3 with Melta guns. The rest would have "Bolters". Actually, I think I have extra bolters laying around.

Death Cult I was going to use the melee Dark Eldar units. The female ones. Don't know what they're called. Then I was going to use Howling Banshees, but they look too alien for the inquisiiton. Does anyone have nay ideas as to what would make a good Death Cult assassain model? Same with the Crusaders.

 

Also, if anyone wants to play on Vassal, hit me up in a PM. Draw is I'm on crazy hours, which I can explain in PMs if you would like.

Thanks!

 

PS; Just because I didn't mention a unit here, does not mean I don't plan on taking it. Yes, Storm Ravens are coming... I'll throw some army lists from what i was thinking up a little later and ask for help. I was just looking for some input / discussion before I started asking for critique on lists.

[spartan249]

I like to think of the two PAGK units in this way: Strike Squad = finesse unit, Purifier Squad = big bludgeon. Purifier squads are quite powerful in a straight up fight, as very little can outgun and outmelee them at mid/close range. What they lack though is strategic versatility. As an opponent, you know exactly what you're going to get from purifiers. Strike Squads, not so much. One game, strike squads may be operating as a gunline, waxing and waning like the tides of the ocean. The next, they'll be deep striking to hit back armor or launch an offensive on home field elements that might rather be left alone. In a rare game, they might set up an all round defense, making life a living hell for deep striking armies. The ability to deep strike and warp quake open up lots of options and control over the flow of a game, and that has become irreplaceable to me. Purifiers are still much stronger then strikes, of course, so it's really up to you as a player to know yourself and what you expect from your troops.

 

I don't use transports mostly because of personal preferences and because I feel that strike squads don't need transports to perform their function. Most others swear by the psybolt heavy bolter/assault cannon razorback. I do not because I feel it's a liability both in the points expended and in vulnerabilities they open up in kill points and first blood. I prefer to have more bodies and more guns.

 

More often then not, dreadknights turn out to be a bit underwhelming against opponents packing tons of plasma/other AP2 stuff, which to me seems to be just about everyone. Dreadnoughts can be useful sometimes as well, but I gravitate more towards stormravens nowadays just for the anti-air capabilities and flier status.

 

I'm using Howling Banshees and warlocks as my DCA/Saders, as the Inquisition does receive help from eldar from time to time. Until I find some suitable axes/halberds to strap on the banshees, they're just using the swords as their armament.

 

For the shooty warbands, jokaero might be worth the effort, as they provide benefits to the squad and new capabilities to you. I'm using death korps models as my shooty henchmen, as those have to be the most badass looking IG guys I've seen anywhere.

[adamv6]

I don't use transports mostly because of personal preferences and because I feel that strike squads don't need transports to perform their function. Most others swear by the psybolt heavy bolter/assault cannon razorback. I do not because I feel it's a liability both in the points expended and in vulnerabilities they open up in kill points and first blood. I prefer to have more bodies and more guns.

 

I couldn't agree more!

 

Stormravens are a must (I relented even though I don't like the model). I run mine with Assault Cannons and Psybolts.

[Kickrock]

I'm going to have to edit my original post to state this, but; The questions I am asking will affect my choices between the units compared. It does not mean that is all I will be taking.

 

Other then that, I do appreciate what you guys are saying! Yes, a Storm Raven is a must! I run one with every single of my BA lists at 1500 or more. And if I don't run one I usually run a IG detachment with a Vendetta (or two).

 

As far as the Dreadknight goes, I see what you're saying, and I thought of that exact situation (focus plasma). Everything I do I tailor it towards a competitive style win all. But I will modify it for my local setting so that I am not that jerk with an untouchable list. In a competitive setting I can see that happening, and I saw it before. I was play testing a Purifier list against my DoA Sang Guard list with 2 x4 Lass Dev units. Both my Dreadknights blew up within two turns. Tested it again to compare to ML Devs and my DoA list didn't last 3 turns (Tabled before Dante could land). What I think I will do its play Dreadnoughts in Competitive style play and switch over to to Dreadknights at my local store. The Meta before I left there in August (To give you an idea of how they'd fair) was a Tank Guard list, Battlewagon Ork list, Grey Knights list w/ henchmen and strike squads designed exclusively to fight DoA Blood Angels (the only kind I play : /), Eldar w/ lots of the melta, Eldar with lots of force multipliers and Howling Banshee, and Two Tau. Out of all of those the only competitive lists are the Guard and the Grey Knights.

 

And, I was looking at the Howling Banshee again, and I may go that route, although I saw the Incubi and the Mandrakes from the Dark Eldar army and feel in love with the Mandrakes. Doesn't fit the look of a Grey Knight army those models... And the Warrior acolytes? I'll look into the models as well. I made my Scouts w/ locators to drop in Raiders of Hammernators for the sake of an army with lots of Dolf Lundgrens. I have a Guard Detachment thats nothing but Catcham for the sake of having a unit full of Sylvester Stallones. So, bad ass themed units is my kinda thing.

 

Thanks for the tips!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

>wall of text

 

All I got out of that was you used to play BA, Orks and CSM.

 

Here is how you Knights. Below is my list of preferred builds and units. Pick and mix from the following (take care of my notes on what goes with what)

 

HQ:

- Grandmaster w/sword, grenade belt

- Librarian w/stave, 'Might', 'Sanctuary', 'Shrouding'

- Coteaz (very hard to pass up normally, I'd rate him above Librarian)

- Terminator Inquisitor w/hammer+psycannon, Divinination (only for attaching to Terminator blobs or Paladins who don't already have a character)

- Inquisitor w/sword+bolt pistol, Divination (for shooty Henchmen warbands)

 

Elites:

- Tech-Marine w/stave, grenade belt, meltabombs (only if you take a melee Henchmen warband)

- Flame Knight w/halberd, Purifier w/hammer, 4 x Purifiers w/halberds, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons (Rhino optional, use GM to make them scoring if you must, they work fine as a non-scoring support unit though)

- Paladin w/Banner, 2 x Paladins w/halberd+psycannon, 2 x Paladins w/hammers (for GM or Libby bodyguard)

- Vindicare Assassin (personal choice, I like him but he dies a lot, think of him as a replacement to a PsyDread)

 

Troops:

- Justicar w/sword, 2 x Knights w/psycannons, 7 x Knights w/swords (cheap n cheerful, 1-2 max, they're for holding home turf, Rhino optional)

- Justicar w/halberd, Terminator w/Banner, 2 x Terminators w/halberd+psycannon, 2 x Terminators w/halberds, 4 x Terminators w/hammers (this thing eats face, scores, and doesn't cost nearly as much as the Paladinstar, great for attaching any of the TDA heroes)

- 3 x Servitors w/plasma cannon, 2 x Jokaero, Chimera or 7 x Acolytes w/storm bolter (Coteaz only, but you usually want him so yeah)

- 3 x Acolytes w/plasma guns, 2 x Jokaero, Chimera or 7 x Acolytes w/storm bolter (Coteaz only)

- 5 x DCA w/power sword+power axe, 5 x Crusader w/power axe+storm shield (Coteaz only, alternative to Paladins/Terminators, need both Tech-Marine and Raven to work)

 

Fast Attack:

 

- Raven (only really for melee Henchmen warband, bit expensive otherwise)

 

Heavy Support:

 

- Dreadnought w/2 x twin-autocannons, psybolts (never leave home without 1, 2 is considered standard issue in the community, as I mentioned before, you can sub in the Vindicare for one of them)

- Dreadknight w/greatsword, teleporter (heavy incinerator is optional, be aware he is a cruise missile and usually dies after taking down his target)

 

For experienced players only (they're a lot easier to kill in 6th)

- Draigo

- Paladin w/Banner, 4 x Paladins w/halberd+psycannon, 4 x Paladins w/hammers, Paladin w/halberd

(add the standard stuff to support, but yeah, that Deathstar is going to suck most of your points up by itself)