Deliverance Lost -Raven Gaurd-

[[TA]Typher]

Hi guys,

 

I just finished Deliverance lost. I follow the Dark Angels primarily, but have had a curious interest in forming both a Iron Hand and Raven Guard army. Needless to say I've tried to soak as much information about those two legions up as much as possible. Sadly, after the lackluster, brutish portrayal of Ferrus in the book 'Fulgrim' I stopped reading the series. Reading how dull witted and inept pretty much all of the Iron Hands where in that novel really turned me off from the army. Not one character of the Emperors Children was slain in any of the battles, big or small, which only goes to show that they were either defunct in war, or there was just a horrible skew to the writing. As someone who loves fluff I was turned ff by the direction of the series.

 

Anyway.. Spoilers alerts!

 

 

I read deliverance and I'd have to saw that again I was disappointed by the story. Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with Corax failing to supercharge the space marine creation process, in fact it has always been know that would happen and I started the book, knowing that the Legion would not be reborn. However, The injection of the Alpha Legion's herculion abilities I found the story again skewed. Space Marines live in very close proximity to each other, and I find it hard to believe that So many could have infiltrated the Raven Guard so easily. If you look at military units in the world today, The US Marines for example, They are often closer then brothers, trusting secrets and displaying mannerisms that would be hard to replicate without suspicion. I would be more inclined to believe that initiates or rookies could be mimicked, but replacing a commander, a Marine that held so much responsibility and knowledge of the legion, would be near impossible. Could a captain in the British army change clothes and fit in with a Marine unit without sending up red flags? I don't think so. In the novel he makes mistakes, going the wrong way in raven spire for example. Thorpe even says that Marines have pict-memory recall, but the fact that people clearly see that he is lost sends up no warning signs.

 

Then there is the fact that people find his transmission codes used to send hidden signals off planet. This only produces a general query and questioning and dies after that. You would think that a legion in the fragile state AND with the fraction unbalancing Gene information they were given would be extremely paranoid and protective. But, alas.. no.

 

This brings be to the populace. Even with the Primarch and the whole remaining legion on the planet they rise up, without a shred of for warning or overshadowing. I finding it hard for any Reigning Primarch, such as Corax to be so detached from the humans on his world to not have at least information of trouble brewing. I can believe that an uprising could happen, even with thousands of marines there... I just don't believe that the Raven guard would be caught so unaware. A Legion that specialized in stealth and guerrilla fighting would have great information lines. You only have to look to our world to see this. The Vietcong had people in several of the US bases, working in menial jobs, collecting information. The Afgans do that same thing. Hell, gang members in certain areas have kids with cellphones hanging on corners looking for trouble to report. The idea just leaves me lost in what specialty the Raven Guard really have?

 

Then there is the Magi, who apparently is brighter than the Emperor, because he easily produces a virus that can alter the Primarchs Gene-seed without a problem. Thorpe even says the it was unknown how long the Emperor worked on the project, but assumes it was decades if not longer. This magi however tossed some playdough and a half eaten Mento in a vial and he had caught up to the master of the Imperium in days. Totally unbelievable. At most I could see him ruining the sample instead of altering it.

 

Even suspending disbelief on all of that, The commander would have to avoid certain people altogether, Corax for example. You would think that a Primarch attached to his Legion like him would see serious problems with the commanders acting. Genius intellect would start to piece together contrasting behaviors almost instantly. I suppose you can say that Corvax was distracted by events, that the fractionating of his legion could account for the lack of personal knowledge of the Intruders, but it's all too convenient.

 

Instead of showing the Alpha Legions Clearly superior warriors making Corax look mentally deficient I would have enjoyed a book that had him failing to improve the Emperors design. Perhaps he tries to force improvements and causes the failures in the recruits that we know from Canon. I would even have more readily excepted that an Alpha Legion mimic, disguised as a Raven Guard of more believable rank (rifleman or rookie), gave his life to ruin the sample. This would have shown both legions in a more equal light in my opinion.

 

In short I feel that the book showed Corax as a sub-par Primarch, not as dull and basic as Ferrus was displayed, but by no means an equal to his other brothers. Certainly not an equal to Omegon, who easily outwitted Corax at every turn. Corax's genius intellect only coming to play while he guided his warriors through the maze at the imperial lab, and then apparently disappearing for the rest of the novel. I would like to add his escape from Istavan, but it's pretty much stated that he only escaped because he was allowed to, which again shows Corax's brilliance and ability for stealth diminished. The addition of the assault on "the Perfect Fortress" at the very end of the book was disconnected with the main story line. I felt as if it was filler to only really add a positive portrayal of Corax in a vain attempt to smooth over the blaring fact that he was just shown (for several hundred pages) as easily marginalized by 4 alpha legion operatives.

 

In all I enjoyed about a third of the book. If Corax would have left the rebuilding to a subordinate, while he ventured off to reek guerrilla style havoc on Horus only to return to find his rebuilding plans dashed by the Alpha Legion I would have found it a better balanced, and more believable book, that would have saved face for the Raven Guard, while still showing the Alpha Legion in a subversive, positive light. It would have been interesting reading as it flipped back and forth between Croaxes successes and the Alpha Legions subversion.

 

Having another somewhat dull Primarch displayed in only brief moments of clarity and brilliance really was disappointing. On the flip side if you are a Alpha Legion fan their Primarchs come off looking amazingly brilliant.

 

 

 

Agree or disagree I'd love to hear other people's point of view.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Hellrender]

I read it a while ago, so i do not remember everythin 100%. That said:

 

 

I agree with a lot. One thing i do like to point out, is that a veyr big part of the legion was destroyed, and once they were back on deliverance, they reorganised all the squads and company's, couple that with trauma (what space marines with trauma!!!) you could understand them being infiltrated.

 

What i am bothered by is how Thorpe portraits primarchs, he does it with the Lion and now with Corax aswell. Whenever there is a dialogue with the primarch and somebody else, or he explains certain actions, i always feel like i am reading about a child talking, or about a child explaining why he stole the cookies. They feel very naive. There is no depth to them to me, instead of coming with good debates, and arguments, or with tactical genius, they use violence or the lamest of reasons against their own legionaires, or they get surprised by their enemies, or lose/win against/with a Super Machine. In my opinion a primarch is a super human being, a tactical genius, a brilliant thinker, instead we get these kids with super bodies. I think so far, i have found that Leman Russ and Magnus are the best portrayed. Lorgar feels a bit childish, but some how it suits him XD. The others i am curious to as how they develop.

 

Other then that writing style around the primarch(s), i found this book an alright read. Sometimes, like you mentioned, way to big stretches of logic, it was better written then his Dark Angel books, but i am just not a fan of Thorp's style of writing.

 

[Necris]

I just finished the book and while I enjoyed it I found some glaring Thorpe style loop holes that he's wonderfully adept at hashing together

 

 

for example Ravendelve just happening to have a stock of nuclear mining charges for Agapito

 

also the plinky way that 3 people crack the geneseed for the primachs

 

 

 

 

But one thing that truly grated on me was

 

 

When the Geneseed was tampered with Corax and Six are distraught at the flaw, surely they haven't been using all of the sample in one go, surely they have a culture of altered Raptor Geneseed that are using for their new batch of super marines, and it is this sample that is tampered with to create the unfortunates

 

So surely the logical answer is

 

"Scrap this batch of geneseed and start over and isolate the flaws and correct the errors."

 

Not

 

"Oh Noooooo, what went wrong perhaps we have corrupted the sample...."

 

 

 

A very enjoyable book about one of my favourite legions but a shame Thorpe doesn't tie up his plot hooks and just hashes them closed with pseudo sub par writing, he's done it with every book he's written, the worst of which was Maeliketh which I threw aside in disgust never finishing.

[Night Runner]

I took it for what it was - an enjoyable read. Also I would like to point out that the Prmarchs were superhuman, but none of them were Superman, the Man of Steel of DC fame. Don't forget that their legend in the 40K universe portrays them as demigods. I believe they were different in the flesh. They also had different skill sets and abilities. Espionage and intrigue was Omegon's theatre of excellence. So you can imagine how difficult it is for the writers to portray them realistically and convincingly. Overall it was a good addition portraying a legion that has mostly dropped out of the main events of the Heresy. Come to think of it Raven Guard fans got more Primarch time than us Space Wolves in our book Prospero Burns!