Pilgrim Of Magnus Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 I would just like to point out that I had said that a fire-heavy army wouldn't have a problem. I understand in those circumstances that they aren't a threat. The HQs i'm taking to put within my two squads are a Warpsmith and a Sorcerer (Mst lvl 3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Correct me if im wrong (dont have dex with me), but neither of those chars are fearless. Do you find that you can get assult swept from combat forces? I'd imagine even accepting challenge with cultist to minimise enemy hard nut, while keeping your char free the fragileness of cultists mean your still lose combat by fair few and run? 10 assult marines for instance, troops for bloodangels, lets say equal points (190 basic plus some gear), will have 27 attacks (lost one mans worth for challenge), 18 hit, 12 wound, 2 saved. your either going to have to wipe their entire squad or lose combat. also with that many losses, theres a real chance they could clear 3" zone of fight back. Sorry, I'm not trying to pick on you, I love your defending them/using them to a degree of success, jsut whenever I try and think how to include them, these things run through my head and I cant justify it. (for record, I'd expect them to manage 2 kills on optimistic side, plus a dead sargent/3ish others depending on how challenge works out regarding chars and then culitists losing by 5ish and running/being swept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 ^^ EXACTLY! Cultists are the Skavenslaves of 40k. They're there to die/hold up an opponent, or alternatively hold an objective in the backfield. You want your opponent to take the bait and charge your unit of 20 cultists, then break them. Your opponents assault unit is now left in the open, in front of all your guns. The only other way I would use the unit is as a meatshield for a fearless character. Ahriman casting endurance and stuff on cultists would be hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Of Magnus Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Don't get me wrong at all, I love it when people give the weaknesses, that's the reason I posted this really. Every time someone gives a weakness it gives me a chance to figure out how to tactically correct the errors and weaknesses. My biggest problem with chaos is that GW have weeded out Fearless from the codex gradually over the last two Codecies and it's really started to make a dent now. So no neither have fearless unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 So unless your using them to draw out said assult unit (although is assult squad can wipe them it begs why bother when a marine unit for same points will give them a fight), what use do they fufill? we've worked out that shooting armies can kill them at same rate as unmarked, you've admitted as much that they arnt good agaisnt armies that can put out those shots, but you've also confirmed that they will die to a mediocre assult unit. where do these guys fufill a purpose? Sorry I'm at a lose for even an upside that they can be compared against another unit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Of Magnus Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 What I love is that every time people give the weaknesses, or 9/10 times, it's as if it's an entire army against the cultists. In reality, the cultists dont seem like the biggest threat. They don't necersarily do any damage on thier own, they seem to be fairly useless until tour stuck in a combat or you've suddenly lost a couple of men here and there and they are whittling units of your army down. In actual reality in almost every game I'v played both squads live till the end. They obviously lose numbers but because they are relatively easy targets per say people leave them till the end as it were, believing that the other units that pose more of a threat should die first. In the ensuing turns the cultists tend to shoot out while the other units fire or assault each other. The cultists survive tactiaclly because as you have all pointed out, they arn't that good, and therefore people overlook them. Psycology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I get what your saying, I use a small unit of 12 cultists for same job, being overlooked and annoying, but for that my unit comes to 69 points. 440 is a decent sized portion depending on what size game you play (my example is in lsits ranging from 1850 to 2400). but if you run 2 chars in them, they wont get ignored, they will get killed. I'm glad you said 9/10, because the above example of an assult squad, its less points! and in the numbers i've allowed for you to have chars that arnt even counted in points. I think the chars would actually win on their own, so the cultists are a negative force! In terms of shooting, I cant say, depends on rest of list etc. And back to original topic of MoT, none of this proves one way or other, but saying that they survive because they are overlooked....well your basically saying the MoT isnt a factor (if anything, dropping it frees up 70 points to throw in, say a couple of spawn to add more distractions!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm thinking a large unit of cultists with autoguns and flamers could be fairly good, they are fairly cheap, and whilst will fold in combat, when it comes to over watch they are just as good as marines, only there are 35 of them, wih 2 shots each, or with 3 flamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dRewsus Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 when it comes to over watch they are just as good as marines, only there are 35 of them, wih 2 shots each, or with 3 flamers. Don't forget they are S3 instead of S4, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 when it comes to over watch they are just as good as marines, only there are 35 of them, wih 2 shots each, or with 3 flamers. Don't forget they are S3 instead of S4, though. One of my cultist units(a wierd unit with 15 cultists, a flamer and 7 autoguns) spent an entire tournament just hitting and wounding waaaayyyy above statistics! It was so funny to see my opponents actually avoiding them because of their incredible luck! :woot: "Me: -Ok, I got 12 shots on overwatch, plus a flamer...lets see, six hits and one on the flamer...five wounds...three dead marines..." "Opponent: -Holy Sh**, those cultists are lethal!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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