Blood Angels in 6th

[JAMOB]

I have created this thread for the purpose of discussing and analyzing changes in the Blood Angels units based on the new rules. I will eventually do all units, but for now if its not covered here see the tactica by Archon Dan made for 5th. I will be structuring this like his, and will basically be taking and adapting what he wrote based on the new rules. I've been playing for ~8 years, but started 5th only ~8 months ago (i was living under a rock with 3rd) and 6th when it came out.

 

And They Shall Know No Fear

 

This is one of the most useful rules in the codex, as it allows any squad to be salvaged an kill points to be denied. Basically they can always regroup, and automatically do. They are then able to move 9/15 inches (standard infantry vs jump troops). In addition they cannot be overrun.

 

Combat Squads

 

This is a useful little rule that allows for the splitting of any and all 10 man squads into 2 5 man squads, dividing weaponary as you wish. This gives you more scoring units, the option of splitting fire (on Devs, etc), but also gives up more kill points in situations where this applies. 5 man squads are much easier to kill, so even if it is an objective game be wary before splitting.

 

Descent of Angels

 

While less useful now that a Jumper list can not be placed completely in reserve, this rule lessens the scatter by D6 rather than 2D6, making suicide meltas etc much more likely to land.

 

Another useful part is that you can reroll failed reserve rolls for units with this rule, making your army less likely to come on piece-wise. It does not, however, allow you to delay reserves by rerolling successful rolls.

 

The Red Thirst

 

This rule used to be why I liked BA, as it gave them free DC rather than just rules...

But now 3 editions later it is rather different. You get fearless and furious charge, both of which are extremely useful, but it is only a 1/6 chance without Astorath (who makes it 1/2) of getting the rules for each unit.

 

Fast Tanks

 

This rule has gotten even better in 6th. Every single vehicle in the BA codex (other than LR and drop pods) has it. This rule allows for all weapons to be fired at combat speed, and up to 2 (1 in 5th!) at cruising speed with a 12" flat out movement (for 24" total). This does, however, make them more expensive...

 

I am really excited for this new edition, and even more excited to discuss the units. I will add to what I have, and will be glad to take any contrasting opinions or new input. The goal of this thread isnt for me to talk, but rather to compile all the ideas from the online community in a manageable setting. C&C Appreciated.

 

-JAMOB

[JAMOB]

HQ

 

Dante

 

Dante has changed only a little in 6th in my humble opinion. Lets go through his abilities.

Stats: The I6 is useless in combat, as his axe makes him strike at i1. However, the rest of the stats are still very good, with 4 wounds and attacks, 2+ Sv and HQ standard Ld10. Overall very good, but obviously not worth the points all by itself :P I actually didnt know he had 4 wounds until doing this - thats very interesting...

Equipment: 2+ Sv, melta, MC PA, JP, grenades, 4++, death mask. Fairly standard/self explanatory overall except for this last. The death mask allows you to nerf an enemy commander, with -1 to WS, W, I, A for the whole game. Their base stats change! In addition, against low-LD enemies his death mask will make his squad near-invincible (5+ to hit w/ WS1). Again, very good but still doesnt make up the points.

Special Rules: The only important ones here are Tactical Precision (his squad doesnt scatter!!!) and Surgical strike (hit&run!!!). This can be used as a DS melta squad that doesnt scatter and kills everything, or can be used just to make sure youre perfectly places somewhere. I dont usually DS my guys (except pods) so I wouldnt use this much, but it has uses. Surgical strike is much better, in my opinion. Against a strong opponent you can just leave, and if you want you can even arm them with lances and assault and then run away!!! but then that leave them free to be shot at, so I suggest after your opponents turn do this and then either recharge or just leave. This is where the I6 comes in handy too, helping his squad leave combat much more reliably.

Master of the Host: Sanguinary guard are troops! This is where I feel Dante really makes up his points. He is good elsewhere, but 225 is a bit much without this. 2+ save flying terminators that are scoring is definitely nice, and I dont think he is worth the points without at least one of these units.

 

Final Verdict: He is good. I dont like characters personally, but as they come he is one of the best. He has great abilities that benefit the army overall, and is a beast in combat as well (though nothing mephiston=level, of course). He unlocks a whole new style of play (nipplewing) and is a great addition to any JP army with 425-450 points left over (for him + SG). You dont need to play nipplewing to take him, but he is most effective with Guard.

 

Gabriel Seth

 

Seth is best used as either a horde-hunter, but can be used decently as anti-TEQ. He is pretty good in challenges, with high Initiative and good survive-ability against anything <S8. He hasn't changed much in sixth, but his Rending sword got noticeably better.

Stats: Not amazing, pretty much a captain bar the A4 W4, its not here that his points are good.

Equipment: As a captain, but with 1 notable exception. He has a S8 rending weapon that hits at initiative. Indeed. Rending is even better in 6th than 5th, simply because it ignores all armor saves, not just 3+ ones (yes it used to as well, but so did PW) - This gives him a much better chance of killing TEQ than a standard sergeant. Remember. At initiative! This makes him pretty good in challenges, with I5, as he will 2+ almost everything and can hurt any vehicle (AV14 pens on 6s, AV 12 glances on 4s...) - its useful in certain situations.

Special Rules: Only two of notes. Whirlwind of Gore is fairly useful only when he is surrounded and alone. If he is surrounded by 6 opponents (the max possible) then he gets 6 auto hits. If he has less, say 4, its still very good but with only 1-2 its not normally worth it - you can get more hits with standard attacks (thanks to WS6). Ferocious instincts are fairly good against hordes as well, especially with guardsmen etc: many attacks, but 1/6 will have a 1/3 chance to kill a guardsmen equivalent. Its not great, but is certainly interesting and with luck could be effective.

 

Final Verdict: He can be worth it... but only if you build your style around using him. His rending attacks frankly have nothing on a straight up PW against anything 3+ save and worse, and PFs are more effective against 2+ saves. A captain can do (most) everything he can do for cheaper, and he has little differentiation. I am not a fan, though he can be good against hordes.

 

Astorath

 

Overall I think he is a bit better, partially because DC did as well and partially because by comparison to other chappies he is a little better.

Stats: Nothing special really, except the 2+ save making him very survivable.

Equipment: The axe is the only thing of note, and its pretty nice. 1) he still ignores all armor 2) He gets rid of that pesky Maul ruling... 3) He forces rerolls in invulns!!! God thats just so satisfying to watch :) On the downside, he does attack at I1 which stinks, hoping this will chance in the new codex.

Special Rules: He is a chappie here, essentially, except for one thing. Shadow of the Primarch makes sure that a good portion of your army will succomb to the red thirst - this can only be a good thing now. FC + Fearleass is really nice! It will get rid of that pesky feeling where only your Tac. get red thirst, and all your nice combat troops dont... That always happens. Or else its the Devs...

Redeemer of the Lost: This is where he really makes his points back. Imagine a whole army of insane psychopaths that rip through everything... Thats what he gives you. Thats right, as many DC as you want :) I might try this at some point (proxying of course), because its a hell of a lot of fun. Basically, this rule lets you take a theoretical 180 DC as your troops choices in a single FOC. Fun right?

 

Final Verdict: He is good only if you want lots of DC. You need 2+ squads to make it worth the points, preferably more - use him for fun and somewhat effective cheese :) Only kinda cheese, more fun than cheese. Use him if you like black and killing stuff, hate that whole "objective" thing.

 

Is there a way to stop it from automatically upending the posts... I want to structure this like I did on heresy but its not letting me

[trukkster]

HQ

 

 

 

Astorath

 

Overall I think he is a bit better, partially because DC did as well and partially because by comparison to other chappies he is a little better.

Stats: Nothing special really, except the 2+ save making him very survivable.

Equipment: The axe is the only thing of note, and its pretty nice. 1) he still ignores all armor 2) He gets rid of that pesky Maul ruling... 3) did I mention he ignores armor? On the downside, he does attack at I1 which stinks, hoping this will chance in the new codex.

Special Rules: He is a chappie here, essentially, except for one thing. Shadow of the Primarch makes sure that a good portion of your army will succomb to the red thirst - this can only be a good thing now. FC + Fearleass is really nice! It will get rid of that pesky feeling where only your Tac. get red thirst, and all your nice combat troops dont... That always happens. Or else its the Devs...

Redeemer of the Lost: This is where he really makes his points back. Imagine a whole army of insane psychopaths that rip through everything... Thats what he gives you. Thats right, as many DC as you want :P I might try this at some point (proxying of course), because its a hell of a lot of fun. Basically, this rule lets you take a theoretical 180 DC as your troops choices in a single FOC. Fun right?

 

Final Verdict: He is good only if you want lots of DC. You need 2+ squads to make it worth the points, preferably more - use him for fun and somewhat effective cheese :D Only kinda cheese, more fun than cheese. Use him if you like black and killing stuff, hate that whole "objective" thing.

 

I know this is an ongoing discussion, but as far as i'm aware, the axe is a unique weapon meaning that it goes at normal initiative. Also, the axe makes you re-roll successful invulnerable saves.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

HQ

 

 

 

Astorath

 

Overall I think he is a bit better, partially because DC did as well and partially because by comparison to other chappies he is a little better.

Stats: Nothing special really, except the 2+ save making him very survivable.

Equipment: The axe is the only thing of note, and its pretty nice. 1) he still ignores all armor 2) He gets rid of that pesky Maul ruling... 3) did I mention he ignores armor? On the downside, he does attack at I1 which stinks, hoping this will chance in the new codex.

Special Rules: He is a chappie here, essentially, except for one thing. Shadow of the Primarch makes sure that a good portion of your army will succomb to the red thirst - this can only be a good thing now. FC + Fearleass is really nice! It will get rid of that pesky feeling where only your Tac. get red thirst, and all your nice combat troops dont... That always happens. Or else its the Devs...

Redeemer of the Lost: This is where he really makes his points back. Imagine a whole army of insane psychopaths that rip through everything... Thats what he gives you. Thats right, as many DC as you want :P I might try this at some point (proxying of course), because its a hell of a lot of fun. Basically, this rule lets you take a theoretical 180 DC as your troops choices in a single FOC. Fun right?

 

Final Verdict: He is good only if you want lots of DC. You need 2+ squads to make it worth the points, preferably more - use him for fun and somewhat effective cheese :D Only kinda cheese, more fun than cheese. Use him if you like black and killing stuff, hate that whole "objective" thing.

 

I know this is an ongoing discussion, but as far as i'm aware, the axe is a unique weapon meaning that it goes at normal initiative. Also, the axe makes you re-roll successful invulnerable saves.

 

 

This is Copy and Paste from the BA FAQ V1.1 posted on GW.

 

Page 45 – Astorath the Grim, The Executioner’s Axe.

Replace the first sentence with the following profile:

Range S AP Type -

- 6 2 Melee, Two-handed, Unwieldy

 

but yes it does force successful invulnerable saves to be re-rolled.

 

-Samirus

[JamesI]

I know this is an ongoing discussion, but as far as i'm aware, the axe is a unique weapon meaning that it goes at normal initiative. Also, the axe makes you re-roll successful invulnerable saves.

Yeah, sadly that was answered in a FAQ. Astorath fights at I1.

 

And DAnte's I6 is not worthless. His unit Hit and Runs at I6 or chases/breaks free from combat at I6.

[JAMOB]

@Trukkster, others answered and also I just forgot to throw in the invuln part. Thanks

@JamesI Now thats interesting... Still though, its not great.

 

Elites

 

Priests

 

The only major changes are that that FnP is now 5+, not 4+, and furious charge no longer adds initiative, only strength. This is a bit saddening, considering the combo made priests one of the best units in the game. They are still very good, but sadly they have lost some of their value. Obviously, the nerfed FnP makes them less helpful for making squads survivable, but they are still very useful. A 5+ save thats almost always taken is better than a 4+ that was taken less. There are a lot of ap1/2 weapons - there are not many that are strength 8+. And, for mephy, this means he always gets it. Just a fun side fact. The loss of the extra initiative makes priests much worse, though not obviously. Against foes like the Eldar, this extra initiative gave our RAS a chance to attack alongside their units. Against other marines it meant we attacked first. The extra strength is still useful, but without the initiative it doesn't matter as much.

As a unit itself, the WS5 is extremely helpful. This is a unit that excels in challenges, especially with termi armor. A useful tactic would be to give them a PW instead of the sergeant, then have the sergeant as a throw-away challengee, and the priest as the good one. I like this, as they 1) have 2+ Look out sir! and 2) are more valuable, so they should not be your throwaway. Use them if you are sure you will win, WS5 will make it happen even more.

 

Final verdict: Priests are not as good as they were, but they are still an invaluable resource within pretty much every army.

 

Corbulo

 

He is the same as always with one major exception. His 2+ FnP is even better now that the standard is 5+, just by comparison. Also, he does not have the option to take a power sword, merely rending. This means that he isnt great at dealing damage, though with his 2+ FnP he does survive well. In addition, his reroll is tactically... taxing. When to use it? A single reroll means a single dice, not a set of dice, not a whole leadership test - this can be very useful when used correctly, and is another reason not to let him die. He also has both WS5 and I5, which means that while he doesnt normally ignore armor, he does attack first and well: against a standard SM sergeant w/ PS + pistol, mathhammer enclosed.

 

Corbulo goes first

Attacks: 4

Hit Chance: 66.67%

Hits: 2.667

Wound Chance: 50% Rend Wound Chance: 16.67%

Wounds: 1.333 Rend Wounds: 0.444

Saved Wounds: 0.889 Saved Rending Wounds: 0

Unsaved Wounds: 0.444 Unsaved Rending Wounds: 0.444

Models Killed: 0.889 meaning he will probably kill it, statistically: 89% chance.

The sergeant returns fire

 

Attacks: 4

Hit Chance: 50%

Hits: 2

Wound Chance: 50%

Wounds: 1

Saved Wounds: 0.833

Unsaved Wounds: 0.167

Models Killed: 0.083 meaning that he will most likely survive. This is the 2+ FnP, btw. In case anyone was confused.

Basically, he will probably kill the sergeant, and if he doesnt he will almost definitely survive.

 

And just a clarifier, he gets 5 rending attacks on the charge. Unfortunately he doesn't get S6 on the charge, furious charge actually doesnt effect him anymore.

 

Final Verdict: He is pretty good, good in challenges despite lack of PW, though rending is almost better than a PW against some foes, like Termis, where rending ignores armor anyway.

 

Attacks: 4

Hit Chance: 66.67%

Hits: 2.667

Wound Chance: 50% Rend Wound Chance: 16.67%

Wounds: 1.333 Rend Wounds: 0.444

Saved Wounds: 1.111 Saved Rending Wounds: 0

Unsaved Wounds: 0.222 Unsaved Rending Wounds: 0.296

Models Killed: 0.519

so about 50% chance of killing a termi in combat

 

His 2+ FnP is amazing, as is I5. He is good unless you have a JP army, and can find the points. I'd say worth it.

 

Sanguinary Guard

 

Sanguinary Guard are, essentially, flying Terminators - on the downside they trade invulns for mobility. Comparing them to termis I would say they are fairly priced and fairly good, but dont take them without a priest somewhere nearby - they need the 5+ against plasma. Alternatively I advise hiding them behind RAS or something... Guard can be used as a mass-AI units, a decent anti-teq unit, and with Dante and some IPs (or just IPs, though less effective) can be used as an AT. They are the perfect anti-MEQ unit, as they will either attack first or just not die. Decent against hordes, though TBH its better to leave that to the cheaper+more numerous RAS when possible.

Stats: Their statline is fairly decent. They have veteran stats (a fact that continually irks me). I wish they had either I or WS 5, but alas twas not to be :) The only super-notable thing is the 2+ save, makes them very survivable - though the Ld10 is nice too.

Equipment: JPs, MC PWs, 2+ Saves, AP4 assault bolters, oh yeah, and grendades!!! This is something I always felt Termis lacked, and its nice to see these flying versions with them. For weapon load out on these I would advise 3 swords 2 axes/1pf 1axe, and 2 IPs. With 2 squads, take 1 w/ 5x axes 1 w/ 5x swords then maneuvre. For Nipplewing tactics/loadouts, see my Army Builds section.

Special Rules: Nothing much here, just fearless is different than most. This is definitely nice though.

 

Final Verdict: They are very good, but are best when combined with Dante. Pairs are an absolute must, as 1 can be focused down too easily. They need FnP for that semi-invuln save, as that is lacking.

 

What is the formula for drop-downs here? On Heresy is [ spoiler ] but here that just makes it black

[Chaplain Admetus]

I think something important you're missing from the Dante discussion is the use of the Death Mask to hex the enemy warlord. With Slay the Warlord offering up a bonus Victory Point, taking a free wound off of your opponents one is huge, especially if its a generic 2 wound character like a lot of players run. Opposing Librarians, Rune-Priests etc are now gambling with the results of the game every time they want to cast a power. Or if they're toting plasma (doesn't happen often, but happens). Its very rare that you'll want to nerf something other than an enemy warlord.

[Morticon]

Especially if the enemy warlord is a Librarian/Rune Priest - it means one perils and youre dead.

[JamesI]

Especially if the enemy warlord is a Librarian/Rune Priest - it means one perils and youre dead.

And speaking as someone with a Thousand Sons army, I lose a lot of psykers to perils.

[JAMOB]

I talk about it in the "Equipment" section of him, but yeah I might have understated it. I will expand on that...

 

Troops

 

Death Company

 

As always, they kill stuff. They always have, always will. They are good at it. However, like priests their FnP and Furious Charge have been nerfed. On the plus side, that pesky Rage ability has been changed for the better. For those of you who didnt know, the old rule was that the death co. had to go straight towards the closest enemy, as fast as they could. This didnt matter too much, except that it could be abused by fast armies. Now, though, the rule has been changed so that they get +2 attacks on the charge instead of +1. This is amazing. The standard layout (as far as I know) is 1 PF for every 5 death co. Now, instead of having 3 attacks with the PF on the charge, you get 4. with PW, you get 5. With bolters, 4. With CC weapons, 5. Basically, they get as many attacks on the charge as they did, with more shooty weapons. This is amazing.

 

Final Verdict: I will use them alot more now, due to the change in rage. As for the rest, that will have to be dealt with. Meh.

 

Death Co. Dreads

 

These are, for the most part, the same as above. They get 6 attack son the charge (which is insane, with talonts), and on the charge are s7 w/ LCs that get extra attacks. Fleet changed, but they have good guns so this doesnt matter too much. Basically, they get more attacks to kill people with and have more control. I am a fan.

 

The downside, however, is lack of mobility without a pod, and with one they cannot assault t1. This leaves them vulnerable, but it is not too hard to support then with other units. If they survive the initial barrage they will kill alot, but keep in mind that they are also only AP3 now (which is fairly ridiculous).

[Jolemai]

How's the rest coming on?

[JAMOB]

Everythings here, except a little thing about nipplewing. Should I post that?

 

I will do the rest soon.