The Guilliman Heresy

[Olis]

It's true that the subject of perpetuals was never approached, as the canon concept was as yet undeveloped, but I actually disagree about stripping Vulkan of his perpetualness for a couple reasons.

 

*snip*

 

See, there's a good reason why I like working with you. There's layers of reasoning to your replies whereas other people might be satisfied with saying only one or two things. And what you put forward makes sense, so there's that. Let's just say that you've convinced me. ^_^

[Conn Eremon]

Why, thank you. 

 

Non-primarch perpetuals could be a topic of discussion however. There does appear to be an order of them involved in the canon universe, who might similarly become involved within ours. Both the Cabal and the Emperor utilized Perpetuals to further their ends, and Ultramar has been where most of the Perpetuals' paths intersected.

[GuillimanHeretic]

Personally, I'm fascinated with immortal characters (Highlander: the Search for Vengeance by Yoshiaki Kawajiri is one of my all-time favourite films) so I'm probably not going to have the ability to resist doing something with the Perpetuals. And having them be normal humans rather than Primarchs makes them at least somewhat more relatable, after all the Primarchs aren't exactly mortals either. Gods know how long they can potentially live for. Since Perpetuals are nearly impossible to permanently kill them, it doesn't really matter.

 

Let's see if I can get something started...

 

What happens to John Grammaticus? Is he still part of the Cabal, or do Alpharius and Omegon take the opportunity to wipe out most of the Cabal on 42 Hydra Tertius? Either way, chances are he'd survive. Alivia Sureka's fate depends on whether anything happens to Molech. As for Ollis Persson/Ollanius Pius.... would he flee from Ultramar once the corruption by Chaos becomes clear to him, or is he corrupted as well?

 

I'm not sure if there's any other Perpetuals I haven't mentioned yet.

Edited August 11, 2017 by GuillimanHeretic

[Olis]

I think we need to discuss what impact an intact Cabal would have on the Guilliman Heresy. From there, we then need to decide whether or not our loyalist Alpharius and Omegon would decide to eliminate the members of it. 

 

If they do, it could be possible that they capture John Grammaticus and attempt to utilise him as an agent of their own. If that is the case, would he join them? Could he lead them to another perpetual, Damon Prytanis? Should he still discover the Fulgurite? It would be a powerful asset for ones such as Alpharius and Omegon...

 

As for Alivia Sureka, it would indeed depend on what happens on Molech. Now, referring back to an earlier post you made, making it part of the Lion's story during the Heresy sounds good to me. At the moment, the Lion is merely Guilliman's rival and aside from orchestrating an ' Operation Market Garden' to Terra doesn't really amount to much. Maybe we could, in a roundabout way, have the Lion do what Horus did in Canon. By different ways and means but the result will be the same. This in turn would be the precursor to his assault on Terra, convinced he can win the war at a stroke...

 

And Ollanius. Dear old Ollanius. He's not keen on Chaos, iirc. It would make sense for him to flee Calth during the period where the Ultramarines are building up for the Heresy, but where would he go? Terra perhaps? 

 

Other perpetuals include: Anval Thawn (a Grey Knight by the time of the 41st Millennium but could quite easily be co-opted for our narrative when he was merely a human) and Cyrene Valantion (which I completely forgot was a thing - I'm not sure how we would use her).

[Conn Eremon]

Only got a short minute, but isn't Molech already mentioned in our Heresy? I thought it was that while the Lion was at Terra, Guilliman was at Molech.

 

But I actually kind of like the idea of a corrupt Oll Pius. The patron of cultists everywhere.

[Olis]

Only got a short minute, but isn't Molech already mentioned in our Heresy? I thought it was that while the Lion was at Terra, Guilliman was at Molech.

 

I've searched both of our threads and our private PM conversation - besides the recent mentions of Molech in this thread, the only other mention is in our PMs (briefly and on the first page). Not a lot comes of it. Unless you have notes lurking on your hard drive, nothing of note has been done with Molech by any of us.

 

But I actually kind of like the idea of a corrupt Oll Pius. The patron of cultists everywhere.

 

My initial knee-jerk reaction to the idea was this. Which then turned into this. It could work... I'm not sure how to get there though. I'll leave that to you, if you wanna pursue it. :)

[Conn Eremon]

Hm. It's been a while since I've looked over my unposted work, there might actually be some stuff there. I'll take a look tonight. As for Ollanius, it'd take some thinking to work right, that's for sure. For a second I was trying hard to think of a word for a heretical saint, but I forgot. The Imperial Truth stands strong still, so I can just use saint. The patron saint of heretics.

 

But speaking of thinking, I had a thought regarding the Lion's Siege of Terra, and trying to give his forces enough of an edge to pose a threat, and I think it might work. It'd incorporate the Cabal, but it would also modify the White Scars away from "attacked on both sides" to a more Thousand Sons-like "forced by error into betrayal." I'm not sure how I feel about it, but it fits.

 

So! The Lion has always needed an edge, it's one of those things we've just set aside for later development. What if we give him the Webway War? Now, Magnus's Folly never happens in our version, so it's not overrun by Chaos. And that's good, because we're going to get the Imperial Webway. So it's not Magnus tearing a hole and letting in daemons of all shapes and colors.

 

But it is the Eldar Webway still. And there are plenty of Eldar on the Cabal. The Cabal that fails to gain the attention of our Alpharius. What if they gain the ear of the Lion, and offer him access to the Webway? Force Terra to fight the siege from two fronts. The Imperial Fists will know their own artifice, and will topple the palace in no time if the defenders are forced to abandon the walls to stop invasion from within.

 

But who is it that strikes from beneath? The Imperial Fists fight a war of attrition all the way to Terra, ultimately failing to land a single taskforce. The Salamanders and the Blood Angels are rampaging across the globe, most of their self-control gone. The Dark Angels form about their lord in search for the Master of Mankind.

 

So the Legion that marches on the impossible city, that threatens the Emperor's greatest work, is the White Scars. If Fulgrim denounced the Khan and struck his Legion before they met the Lion, perhaps the Khan would be more sympathetic to his cause. And if the White Scars fought in the Imperial Webway, perhaps here begins their desire to take it for themselves. And if the Khan and his sons see the traitorous forces under the persuasion of xenos and the corruption of the warp, perhaps when they themselves retreat from the Lion's failure they don't swear themselves to Guilliman as the others do.

 

And so they fight only for themselves from then on.

[Olis]

In regards to the Webway War and the White Scars, would they be marching alone? I'm not sure they'd be a-ok marching alongside eldritch horrors like the World Eaters do in canon. I mean, maybe they'd be going with other renegades and insurgents but anything overtly Chaos-y would be ringing some alarm bells...

[GuillimanHeretic]

What did I say about Molech again....?

 

 

I don't know what should happen to Molech, if anything. Perhaps the most likely way to involve it in the Heresy is to make it part of Lion El'Jonson's assault on Terra, either in the initial assault or in the retreat, with traitor forces making a final stand there while attempting to break into the Warp Portal there.

 

In canon, Dark Angels are involved in bringing Molech into compliance originally, and Ultramarines and Blood Angels are part of the battle against Horus' assault. So maybe a splinter group of DA, UM and BA (and maybe others) use the Lion's assault on Terra as a diversion to attack Molech? But without any traitor Primarchs present. So however close they get, whatever damage they do, they ultimately fail.

 

I don't know why but I always imagine Molech resembling Scariff from Rogue One, with tropical beaches and lush vegetaton.

 

 

 

 

If the Lion attacks Molech first, then he must know somehow about it's secrets, perhaps he's told by the Chaos pantheon that the key to his power will be there. And it would explain how he's able to slay Fulgrim on Terra.

 

So, if the loyalists lose Molech, that would make the Lion extremely powerful. Perhaps Guilliman's source of power would have to come from elsewhere, like the Tower of Silence and Drach'nyen. Or something.

[Olis]

I did riff off of that post - the parts that seem to click with my ideas, at least. As for Guilliman and Drach'nyen, he would only be able to grab that long after the Webway War (presumably after Ra Endymion has managed to find his way there). His favour with the Chaos Gods would have to be found elsewhere until then imo. Conceivably, Guilliman would have Drach'nyen at the Siege of Macragge and perhaps in the years of the Invasion of Ultramar. But before that? He was the second choice in this alt.heresy, after Horus. They would be investing in him long before the Lion visits Molech, therefore imparting favours and power that the Lion has to fight for. 

 

As you have had it (iirc), he still had the Gladius Incandor until Urulan. I propose that Guilliman has had the Gladius altered, changed into the Gladius Tenebrae. If he is to be the arch-traitor of this Heresy, I prefer the idea that at some point he's going to be trying to upgrade his gear to be the best it can be. Imbued with a measure of warp essence, the tiniest droplet of the stuff of the Gods, this Gladius would serve him until he finds Drach'nyen. Drach'nyen itself would outclass the Gladius, regardless of the bound power within coming from the Gods themselves - the End of Empires proving far more worthy than the Sword of Darkness.

[GuillimanHeretic]

Good idea, don't forget I did upgrade his gear when I first drew him for this:

http://guilliman-heretic.deviantart.com/art/Warmaster-Roboute-Guilliman-628180138

 

Gladius Tenebrae sounds like a good name, and not one I'd have ever thought of. I should probably redesign Guilliman's weaponry so it's less OTT than it has been so far when I draw it. Especially the Hand of Dominion, the claws are a bit on the long side.

Edited August 12, 2017 by GuillimanHeretic

[Olis]

Fair enough. If this thread of thought is to be followed properly the following should probably happen unless there's better ideas:

 

• The War in the Webway occurs - with the possibility of the White Scars being tricked into participating*
• The Emperor binds/transforms the Daemon Drach'nyen into a sword blade
• Ra Endymion gains the blade Drach'nyen
• Ra Endymion makes his way to Urulan
• Guilliman reaches Urulan and claims Drach'nyen, discarding or losing the Gladius Tenebrae in the process

 

Theoretically, we don't need Drach'nyen to appear in the Webway War, but engineering an entertaining (and logical) clash between the Emperor and it may prove a challenge. Seeing as the Webway War would occur before/during when the Lion invades Terra, the time between the Siege of Terra and the Invasion of Ultramar is not terribly huge. A few years maybe, but still, the window will be limited.

 

 

* If this is the case, would there be a way to have them take part even when Daemons should be there? Can they be fooled into fighting the Imperium before they realise they are the baddies? 

[GuillimanHeretic]

"Skulls? Are we the bad guys?"

 

My local GW store manager quotes that all the time XD

 

Sounds good. I think the Emperor could easily decide to lead the Imperial forces in the Webway War himself at some point, and have his confrontation with Drach'nyen as a daemon. Though why would Ra Endymion go all the way to Urulan to get rid of the sword? Does he do that in Master of Mankind? I just remember Ra being told to "Run." Anyway, it makes sense to have it take place during the Lion's seige of Terra, perhaps as the Emperor's attention is diverted in various places. Perhaps that could add to the tragedy of Fulgrim's death, it wouldn't have happened if the Emperor wasn't forced to enter the Webway, but he either didn't know or chose to risk sacrificing Fulgrim rather than lose a vital confrontation with daemonic forces. Perhaps he thinks that only he can vanquish Drach'nyen completely.

 

Since the Horus Heresy lasted about 10 years, I'm guessing the Guilliman Heresy takes even longer. With the long, gruelling campaign to invade Ultramar and finally reach Macragge, leading to the biggest and longest battle of the entire Heresy.

Edited August 12, 2017 by GuillimanHeretic

[Conn Eremon]

In regards to the Webway War and the White Scars, would they be marching alone? I'm not sure they'd be a-ok marching alongside eldritch horrors like the World Eaters do in canon. I mean, maybe they'd be going with other renegades and insurgents but anything overtly Chaos-y would be ringing some alarm bells...

 

Well, I'd say they can't be entirely alone, if the point is for them to witness how far their traitor-brothers have fallen and decide they want no part of it.

 

But it would be an entirely different invasion from canon. In canon, Magnus's Folly is a giant tear through the defenses from which an endless supply of daemons gushes forth. In ours, if we go with this, it'd be a conventional army utilizing alien, rather than eldritch, means. No tear, no daemons, right?

 

Now, we've seen time and again that no legion ever just does a job entirely on its own. It's almost always as an augmented force. So what if the Khan and his sons are the forward response elements of a much larger army, the Tenebrae Auxilia, those Imperial Army elements that back the Lion?

 

The White Scars would come to see the Cabal's involvement as a manipulation, a trap expected to doom both sides. They would also witness among the mortal forces a progression of heresy that is still incomplete but noticeably corrupted. I think they would be sickened by what they see, but nonetheless committed. Only when the battle is lost on the surface will the White Scars begin a fighting retreat, where they will find the portals being sealed by the Cabal. Another battle, another reason to be disillusioned by their own side. The White Scars do break free, but their experiences will reveal to them that neither side has any place for them. That to survive, free and incorruptible, they must fight only for themselves.

[Olis]

Sounds good. I think the Emperor could easily decide to lead the Imperial forces in the Webway War himself at some point, and have his confrontation with Drach'nyen as a daemon.

 

Given Conn's response after yours, engineering Drach'nyen meeting the Emperor will be interesting indeed. Especially if we go the route of making use of the 'Auxilia Tenebrae'.

 

Though why would Ra Endymion go all the way to Urulan to get rid of the sword? Does he do that in Master of Mankind? I just remember Ra being told to "Run."

 

This is where two points of canon intersect but are not explicitly connected: Ra has Drach'nyen and is told to run. Abaddon finds Drach'nyen on Urulan along with a golden armoured individual, iirc. Connecting the dots, one could surmise that this figure is indeed Ra. It might not be, and Black Legion may prove otherwise (in which case a revision may be in order at a later point). But, for now, it seems logical that A D-B intends for the golden figure to be Ra. Therefore, my theory is... it's Ra.

 

Anyway, it makes sense to have it take place during the Lion's seige of Terra, perhaps as the Emperor's attention is diverted in various places. Perhaps that could add to the tragedy of Fulgrim's death, it wouldn't have happened if the Emperor wasn't forced to enter the Webway, but he either didn't know or chose to risk sacrificing Fulgrim rather than lose a vital confrontation with daemonic forces. Perhaps he thinks that only he can vanquish Drach'nyen completely.

The Webway distracting the Emperor sounds like a good factor, especially in the death of Fulgrim. We still need to hash out the Webway War itself, though.

 

Since the Horus Heresy lasted about 10 years, I'm guessing the Guilliman Heresy takes even longer. With the long, gruelling campaign to invade Ultramar and finally reach Macragge, leading to the biggest and longest battle of the entire Heresy.

 

Our Heresy lasts at least twenty years. Somewhere between twenty and twenty-five, iirc. The initial phase, imo, revolves around the drawing lines in the sand and encroaching on Imperial territory, with the end of that phase being the Lion's attempt at ending the war with the two-fold assault on Terra. This would last, probably, between seven and ten years. The second phase of the war would be the Imperial Invasion of Ultramar, ending with the Siege of Macragge. This would take up the remaining years of the war itself. A third 'scouring' phase would then follow that would not technically be the Heresy itself but would see continued fighting for another few years I think. 

 

 

In regards to the Webway War and the White Scars, would they be marching alone? I'm not sure they'd be a-ok marching alongside eldritch horrors like the World Eaters do in canon. I mean, maybe they'd be going with other renegades and insurgents but anything overtly Chaos-y would be ringing some alarm bells...

 

Well, I'd say they can't be entirely alone, if the point is for them to witness how far their traitor-brothers have fallen and decide they want no part of it.

 

But it would be an entirely different invasion from canon. In canon, Magnus's Folly is a giant tear through the defenses from which an endless supply of daemons gushes forth. In ours, if we go with this, it'd be a conventional army utilizing alien, rather than eldritch, means. No tear, no daemons, right?

 

Now, we've seen time and again that no legion ever just does a job entirely on its own. It's almost always as an augmented force. So what if the Khan and his sons are the forward response elements of a much larger army, the Tenebrae Auxilia, those Imperial Army elements that back the Lion?

 

The White Scars would come to see the Cabal's involvement as a manipulation, a trap expected to doom both sides. They would also witness among the mortal forces a progression of heresy that is still incomplete but noticeably corrupted. I think they would be sickened by what they see, but nonetheless committed. Only when the battle is lost on the surface will the White Scars begin a fighting retreat, where they will find the portals being sealed by the Cabal. Another battle, another reason to be disillusioned by their own side. The White Scars do break free, but their experiences will reveal to them that neither side has any place for them. That to survive, free and incorruptible, they must fight only for themselves.

 

 

Okay, so, there is no daemons. Is there any wiggle room for Drach'nyen? This is me trying to accommodate both yourself and GuillimanHeretic with this - the arrival of a daemon such as Drach'nyen (not sure how if there is no tear in the Webway) could be the final "  this, we're out." for them.

 

But, with other the other things that happened to them, I've forgotten why the Scars would agree to fight in the Webway. Does the Lion convince them?

[Conn Eremon]

Oh. I honestly thought you guys were chatting about GHeretic's own variation, and only lightly skimmed. Sorry.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure how to incorporate Drach'nyen without a daemon-gushing tear. Cultist rituals can probably bring some daemons, but probably not any near that level. Do we need Drach'nyen? In canon, his presence in the Webway sets up a legend that cements Abaddon's later authority and power as its wielder. Do we have anyone wielding Drach'nyen? I had considered bringing it up as part of the ritual that would revive the Lion, but I haven't posted the thought.

 

As for the White Scars, yeah it would require a change from established lore. Maybe if the order went from "Reject the Lion, Betrayed by Fulgrim" to "Betrayed by Fulgrim, Listen to the Lion," it'd perhaps work.

 

I don't know, is it too much of a change? Just trying to think of something that would enhance the Lion's position during the Siege of Terra, so I'm open to alternatives.

[Olis]

Yeah, I'm not sure how to incorporate Drach'nyen without a daemon-gushing tear. Cultist rituals can probably bring some daemons, but probably not any near that level. Do we need Drach'nyen? In canon, his presence in the Webway sets up a legend that cements Abaddon's later authority and power as its wielder. Do we have anyone wielding Drach'nyen? I had considered bringing it up as part of the ritual that would revive the Lion, but I haven't posted the thought.

 

We've been working on the idea over the past several posts that Guilliman, in the latter days of the Heresy, was wielding Drach'nyen. It was just a matter of somehow setting it up so that he could somehow get a hold of the sword. 

 

If Drach'nyen is not in the Webway War... how could we get it to be the sword version of itself? Hmm. It's difficult because it was the Emperor himself who bound/transformed the daemon. Using other means is tricky, as it would seem a little too deus ex machina-ish to find another way - without the Emperor - and somehow get it into Guilliman's hands. Drach'nyen is inextricably tied to the Emperor, narratively speaking, so if the webway isn't an option, we need both of them to meet elsewhere. That is, if Guilliman bearing Drach'nyen isn't gaming the story too hard. ^_^

 

What if... the Emperor returns to Molech (after the Lion has already been there) to destroy the portal? Maybe it could be there that he meets Drach'nyen?

 

As for the White Scars, yeah it would require a change from established lore. Maybe if the order went from "Reject the Lion, Betrayed by Fulgrim" to "Betrayed by Fulgrim, Listen to the Lion," it'd perhaps work.

 

I don't know, is it too much of a change? Just trying to think of something that would enhance the Lion's position during the Siege of Terra, so I'm open to alternatives.

 

The White Scars have never had a terribly strong reason to quit both sides, even though in canon they were very much undecided for a while. This direction, while strengthening the Lion's overall involvement, would also strengthen the Scars ultimate decision to wash their hands of the Imperials and the rebels. The only problem with it atm is that it throws a spanner in the Drach'nyen ponderings we're currently having. 

[Conn Eremon]

I'm still kinda of the opinion that Guilliman should be the one to take Molech, rather than the Lion. It does lessen the Lion's power, but it is the Guilliman Heresy. If anyone's to gain powers rivaling the Emperor's, it should be Guilliman. It's looking it might just be one of those thoughts I've had and cemented into my idea of our canon without ever posting it, but I think that Guilliman going to Molech while the Lion is besieging Terra to be the best course.

 

. . . Maybe we can all have our cake and eat it too. The Lion attacks Terra in the biggest battle fought in the Heresy up to that point. Worse still, the Emperor's greatest project comes under direct threat. The machinations of the loyalists keep the Lion's greatest weapon, the Fists, out of play. His hidden blade beneath the palace, the Scars, begins to have doubts. The Chaos-engorged Lion does succeed in killing Fulgrim, but is unable to stand against an Emperor that has finally chosen to take part. The Siege ends, and the traitors scatter before reuniting under Guilliman's banner.

 

Guilliman, at this time, is on Molech. Already a world of his own, bastioned as it was by his own sons and that of Sanguinius, no battle is necessary. Well, there is that perpetual guardian, but she wouldn't stop Guilliman any more than she could Horus. What happens in there, happens. Oh! Okay, I know none of this was posted, but I remember now more of my thoughts on this. The Chaos Gods have two pawns in this Heresy, with the Lion proving the greater simply because he's willing to go on the offensive. But while the Lion was on his offensive, the Guilliman was planning for the future. He knew the Lion would not succeed, and that his failure would bring the Emperor fully into the war. Just as Horus learned of Molech, so too does Guilliman.

 

Guilliman enters the portal, and proves his worth to the Gods. This has two direct effects. One, Guilliman walks again on Molech as an ascended being. Two, mirroring canon Horus, the Lion feels the Gods abandon him. The Lion falls, yet another Warmaster remains.

 

Now, that's basically been my thoughts on the matter, from way back when we were still updating regularly. I guess since then I internalized it without realizing I was the only one who even knew of it. But here's where we can both get what we want. Molech is a portal to the Gods. It's a direct link to their realm. The Emperor used it to steal the knowledge necessary to create the Primarchs and begin his greatest work. Horus and Guilliman used it to gain the power necessary to rival Him.

 

But it's still basically a hole from reality to the very domains of the Gods. And that hole can be torn wide open. Molech can become a Daemon World in realspace, an endless supply of daemonic beings rampaging forth to bury the globe. And with his newfound power, why would Guilliman stop there? The Emperor is coming. Bind Him behind a daemonic border. And so Guilliman and his more gifted sons travel from world to world, enacting rituals that tear great holes into the Immaterium. Each damned world linking to the other across space, giving rise to the immense Ruinstorm that divides the Emperor and his still-loyal forces from the Five Hundred Thousand Worlds of Ultramar (trademark pending).

 

And when the Emperor's forces are thrown adrift by the Ruinstorm, His retribution stayed before it could begin, what choice would he have but to locate the lynchpin world and end the Ruinstorm? And so the Emperor, his Custodes and the Silent Sisterhood leading the most elite of the Emperor's forces, lands upon the daemon-infested planet of Molech. In a battle somehow reminiscent of the canon Heresy's War in the Webway, the Emperor fights his way to the portal his wayward son had torn open and after a terrible battle even for one such as He, finally seals it shut.

 

With all the other tears linked to Molech, feeding off of it, empowered by it, the loss of it would cause the scars to sputter, scab and heal over. The flow of daemonic forces cease, the great warpstorm fading to mere turbulence. A commendable defense still, but no longer insurmountable. The Scouring of Ultramar proceeds.

 

But wouldn't Molech just be the perfect place for the Emperor to fight Drach'nyen?

[Olis]

That sounds like a good tie up between Drach'nyen, Guilliman's ascent, the Lion's assault on Terra and the Ruinstorm. It links really quite well, I think. Once the Emperor transforms Drach'nyen on Molech, he would presumably send a Custodes (possibly Ra) away with it. Ergo, Guilliman seeks out the sword in preparation of ending the Emperor and his empire. 

 

This sounds like a good plan of action to me. A good road map for the middle of the Heresy. :tu:

 

I just wish you'd posted it up sooner... :P

[Conn Eremon]

It fits with Guilliman's own virtues as the consummate tactician, empire-builder, and just all-around planner to have multiple, overlapping defenses in place, to utilize all of his resources to overcome a greater foe.

 

The daemonic ruinstorm, followed by the plague-castles of Dorn's design. World after world, circled by countless fleets, manned by greatly skilled and trained men and women of Ultramar. His warrior-king sons witnessed in force in every battle across the galaxy.

 

All designed to slow the Emperor's wrath, until Guilliman can find the means to end Him. So begins the Siege of Macragge.

 

 

Also: Reading the timeline we have Mortarion and his Legion be the first to assault Ultramar. They use untested warp routes to speed them through and end up trapped, mirroring canon. It's the Reaper's Blade's destruction that tears a hole back into reality and spilling the remaining Death Guard free.

 

The Death Guard were always purposeful in their approach, never rushed. It was always a bit counter for them to be so hasty, which we rationalized by Mortarion's emotional state. But perhaps we don't need them to be anymore. Perhaps the Reaper's Blade, including Mortarion himself, are the greatest trophies claimed by the Ruinstorm.

 

Also also: Just to be clear, when I say Ultramar, I don't mean the Five Hundred Worlds. I mean our Guilliman's entire domain, encompassing the whole of Ultima Segmentum and quite a bit of the others as well.

[Olis]

Also: Reading the timeline we have Mortarion and his Legion be the first to assault Ultramar. They use untested warp routes to speed them through and end up trapped, mirroring canon. It's the Reaper's Blade's destruction that tears a hole back into reality and spilling the remaining Death Guard free.

 

The Death Guard were always purposeful in their approach, never rushed. It was always a bit counter for them to be so hasty, which we rationalized by Mortarion's emotional state. But perhaps we don't need them to be anymore. Perhaps the Reaper's Blade, including Mortarion himself, are the greatest trophies claimed by the Ruinstorm.

 

Concurred. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, rather than trying to be first into the fray. The Reaper's Blade would end up being claimed by the storm but the Death Guard would escape and remain loyal. The fate of Mortarion (and Captain Typhon) would remain an in-universe mystery...

 

Seems like I need to set about rewriting the timeline soon. Oh, also, the Namn write-up nears the completion of the first draft. Man, it's a little rough about the edges but I'll be polishing it up before seeing what everyone else thinks. :)

[Olis]

Double post! I've updated the timeline somewhat, though there's still work to do. I've added dates to much of the early stuff (thoughts on this would be welcome) and even added a couple of new things, cross-pollinating from GuillimanHerectic's own timeline. I did, however, put my own spin on them.

 

Also, it has occurred to me while doing this, I did a rather in-depth exposition on new armour marks about five years ago (in the first thread). I consider much of it is kinda irrelevant for the GH of today but some of it can be salvaged for extra post-heresy details. Maybe update it or rewrite some of it. 

[SixOfOne]

Apologies for not posting for a while, have been busy with work and university writing.

 

I like what you've all come up with regarding Molech, Drachn'yen and the Custodes. I did have the thought of not having the Emperor bind Drachn'yen into Ra at all, but instead having Guilliman make a pilgrimage (like Lorgar) using the portal at Molech and him being gifted Drachn'yen after trials. However, having Molech act as an overflowing warp portal is good. This may also be an interesting way to introduce the Perpetuals if we want to (I'm not convinced it's fully necessary even though I like the characters of John and Alivia). If we keep Alivia stationed at Molech then that's a feasible way for the Emperor to be alerted to the events unfolding there.

[Olis]

Apologies for not posting for a while, have been busy with work and university writing.

 

I like what you've all come up with regarding Molech, Drachn'yen and the Custodes. I did have the thought of not having the Emperor bind Drachn'yen into Ra at all, but instead having Guilliman make a pilgrimage (like Lorgar) using the portal at Molech and him being gifted Drachn'yen after trials. However, having Molech act as an overflowing warp portal is good. This may also be an interesting way to introduce the Perpetuals if we want to (I'm not convinced it's fully necessary even though I like the characters of John and Alivia). If we keep Alivia stationed at Molech then that's a feasible way for the Emperor to be alerted to the events unfolding there.

 

No apologies needed - it is good to see you return, brother. In my mind, with Drach'nyen, it's transformation is an event triggered by the Emperor. Hence me being a stickler for the two of them having to be at the same place at the same time. ^_^

 

As for Alivia, it's almost without a doubt that Guilliman would kill her if she opposes him, what with her being the guardian of the portal and, funnily enough, it happened to her in canon, too, with Horus. The question is... between the time Guilliman visits Molech and the time the Emperor comes to Molech to destroy the portal, what does Alivia do? We know she is a perpetual and we know she had family on Molech in canon at the time of the Horus Heresy...

 

Maybe, with the fifty year time difference and the turning of the Ultramarines (and the Blood Angels), Alivia has had to die before Guilliman even reaches the portal. Maybe a vanguard squad, sent to secure the portal, had already dispatched her. Which then leads me to wonder what would she do after that? Somehow contact other perpetuals? The Emperor even? 

 

Presumably, her children have grown, aged and have had children of their own by now, so Granny Alivia is not quite so tied to her kids as she is in canon. She's more free to run off and do her thing, I would think. So... I'm leaning towards her sending an alert to the Emperor in one way or another. 

[GuillimanHeretic]

I don't have a lot of time today so I'll just make a quick post for now.

 

I like where Ollis is going with this, it gets my vote for sure. While the Lion makes his wild stab at Terra, Guilliman uses it to his advantage to take Molech and set up an impenetrable defense, which also claims the Reaper's Blade in the process. Leading the Emperor to face Drach'nyen on Molech and destroy the Warp gate so the final phase of the Heresy can begin. All part of a grand plan to set up Ultramar's defenses and slow the Emperor's wrath as much as possible.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by GuillimanHeretic