spu00sed Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I have been looking though the different consuls to see which ones I want to build. I saw the vigilator and thought h would be a good addition to a seeker squad. However I have a few questions How does sniper work with special issue ammunition? Do tempest rounds gain rending and wound in 4+? Recon sergeants can have artificer recon armour. Can vigilators do this as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I have been looking though the different consuls to see which ones I want to build. I saw the vigilator and thought h would be a good addition to a seeker squad. However I have a few questions How does sniper work with special issue ammunition? Do tempest rounds gain rending and wound in 4+? Recon sergeants can have artificer recon armour. Can vigilators do this as well? Hey, not sure how sniper applies to the ammunition as yet, been using it without it atm but ive been known to be wrong. He is allowed to take artificer armour as per the options on the centurion page (and as it isnt listed under the exempted wargear). However, he wont have infiltrate and move through cover unless he takes scout armour. The one for the sergeant is particular to him in that he still gets the benefits of his whole squad having scout armour, except he's rocking a 2+ save Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Sniper gives you pinning, rending and precision shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim AMM realgenius Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Precision shot on a 6 to hit, and, in addition to what you mentioned, always wound on a 4+. I'm pretty sure FW knows how Sniper works, I just wish they'd tell us how it interacts with other rules so that my Sniper Meltaguns aren't only wounding on a 4+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Precision shot on a 6 to hit, and, in addition to what you mentioned, always wound on a 4+. I'm pretty sure FW knows how Sniper works, I just wish they'd tell us how it interacts with other rules so that my Sniper Meltaguns aren't only wounding on a 4+. This is why I wondered if FW knew what sniper is, I assume they mean precision shot when they say sniper for Vigilator Veterans With the vigilators his tempest rounds go from wounding marines on 5+ to 4+ and gain ring on a blast weapon Veteran special/heavy weapons go from wounding on 2+ to 4+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Sniper gives you pinning, rending and precision shot It potentially doesn't. A weapon or model with the sniper special rule grants precision shot, but then it states that a sniper weapon grants pinning and rending. Whether that is an accidental or purposeful divide, we're currently undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Sniper gives you pinning, rending and precision shot It potentially doesn't. A weapon or model with the sniper special rule grants precision shot, but then it states that a sniper weapon grants pinning and rending. Whether that is an accidental or purposeful divide, we're currently undecided. Sniper model and sniper weapons have precision shot for shooting. First paragraph Sniper model and sniper weapons always wound on 4+ and out as S3 against vehicles. Second paragraph Sniper weapons have rend and pinning. Third paragraph Why isn't it clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Sniper model and sniper weapons have precision shot for shooting. First paragraph Sniper model and sniper weapons always wound on 4+ and out as S3 against vehicles. Second paragraph Sniper weapons have rend and pinning. Third paragraph Why isn't it clear? Actually it switches from sniper model and weapons to sniper weapons in paragraph 2 (for the S3 against vehicles). It also makes the Sniper Vet ability a bit odd, just generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim AMM realgenius Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Sniper model and sniper weapons always wound on 4+ and out as S3 against vehicles. Second paragraph Why isn't it clear? Because it makes meltaguns given to Legion Veteran Tactical Squads lose 5 S against vehicles and makes it harder to Wound models up to T7 when they are classified as "precision instruments, used to pick out a target's weak points" as opposed to just the normal version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 In the second paragraph about being s3 that refers to sniper weapons, the vigilator and veterans gain the sniper special rule, this means they do not "benefit" from the s3 against vehicles because they are models with the sniper rule not sniper weapons, although they still wound on 4+. A meltagun wielding modle with sniper, would always wound on a 4+, but at the same time not suffer the s3 penalty nor gain the rending or pining special rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Making it a fairly poor Veteran Ability - you gain Precision Shot, which is quite nice, but in return any special or heavy weapon is neutered against non-vehicles and the bolters are worse against anything that isn't T4 or higher, while remaining equivalent against T4. Good if you want a cheap unit and face a lot of Bikers and/or Nurgle, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Making it a fairly poor Veteran Ability - you gain Precision Shot, which is quite nice, but in return any special or heavy weapon is neutered against non-vehicles and the bolters are worse against anything that isn't T4 or higher, while remaining equivalent against T4. That's what makes it a good ability though, is the fact that you can pick to use it at the start of the game, if you see your oponent is a tyanid army with say 6 carnifex's and 2 hive tyrants you can decide to take the sniper ability and blammo those tyranids, if there a gaunt hord army, you can choose to take something else, like furious charge. This is assuming that your not loading your squad out with anything, presuming your loading them out with missle launchers, you'd maybe want to take tank hunters or if its a swarm then you'd mabe take something else like fearless, I do believe they need to fix this rule, but in the mean time there is a work around, which all depends on how you load your squad out, i'd maybe consider two squads one with just bolters and the sniper rule and one with 2 missle launchers and the tank hunters rule, if you are gonna take heavy bolters then conisder sniper against anything t5 our above below that you bolters aren't affected, the only downside is the lack of rending but most t3 models have a crappy save any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 That's what makes it a good ability though, is the fact that you can pick to use it at the start of the game, I know you touch on this later in your post, but to make best use of this you need to be using just Bolters, which isn't how you'd standardly equip a unit if you're going to take Vet Tacs (standard Tacs are all about the Bolter). If the Sniper rule allowed you to use it or not, or used the wording for Poison (where it's 4+, unless you'd need less) it would work just fine. Or if the Rending and Pinning rules applied (i.e their weapons became Sniper Weapons) that would make them worth setting up a unit with just Bolters. While I don't want to be too 'gamey' about the options, I do want all my squads to work nicely :P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I know what you mean, it's what puts me of using vets, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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