Martok Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I am modelling some Blood Angels for 30k and I was thinking of using some of the Sanguinary Guard Death Masks. However, I was thinking... is the Death Mask an expression of Sanguinus' Death or just a common motif of the Legion? - Martok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I am modelling some Blood Angels for 30k and I was thinking of using some of the Sanguinary Guard Death Masks. However, I was thinking... is the Death Mask an expression of Sanguinus' Death or just a common motif of the Legion? - Martok I think the Death Mask in general would be pre-Death (Sanguinius' death), where as the Death Mask of Sagnuinius would be post-Death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I personally would interpret the death mask thing as a post-heresy affectation. There's nothing to say you can't use it but I would like there to be some sort of general change in aesthetics in the Blood Angels Legion pre- and post-heresy. But like I said - that's my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I personally would interpret the death mask thing as a post-heresy affectation. There's nothing to say you can't use it but I would like there to be some sort of general change in aesthetics in the Blood Angels Legion pre- and post-heresy. But like I said - that's my take on it. Well, my reasoning is that Sanguinius is highly affected by the deaths of every son, and does a lot of symbolic and artistic things to show his grief. A death mask is a way of artistically honoring the dead, and it fits in with his personality, and the rest of the legion's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I'd agree that it's more likely to be post-heresy as they're (as others have already said) mostly (at least seem to be) an adornment and expression of grief felt by the Blood Angels as a Legion after their Angel-Lord's death... that said - I know Captain Tycho wears his to hide a disfigurement, which shows that they're used to show their arrogance/self-loathing and quest for perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Dew Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I wouldn't say arrogance really as the humans they recruit from are basically have a radioactive desert for a home world and not one of them does not suffer from the effects of radiation sickness, then they're taken up and implanted and turned into the epitome of a noble physique at a point in a humans life where their personality and such is yet to mature. Then Tycho was subjected to an Orc psychic power that left half his face stuck into lop sided mess... basically he was given a stroke and that can mess up any ones mind let alone some one born ugly and disfigured then made almost perfect then to have it taken away again in an instant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I'd agree that it's more likely to be post-heresy as they're (as others have already said) mostly (at least seem to be) an adornment and expression of grief felt by the Blood Angels as a Legion after their Angel-Lord's death... that said - I know Captain Tycho wears his to hide a disfigurement, which shows that they're used to show their arrogance/self-loathing and quest for perfection. I don't remember Tycho having a death mask. What is your source for this? For as long as I remember, he has never worn one. And how does it show their arrogance? To want to be beautiful is not arrogant. But the Death Masks aren't all of Sanguinius, anyways. I maintain that the death masks are ceremonial of nature and predate the Horus Heresy, with the exception of the Death Mask of Sanguinius, worn by Dante. I could be wrong, but there is nothing saying that they are post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusktiger Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Tycho does not have a death mask; he has a golden face plate crafted to mimic his perfect features on his unblemished side of his face to cover up the rictus grin the ork psyker gave him with his attack. the plate only covers half of his face. the concept was designed based off the phantom of the opera character. according to official canon on the 40k lexicanum, there's no reference of what millennium they started using the masks, only that they are worn to honor the fallen. but they also only cited this information from Deathwatch: First Founding, so you may want to check what the blood angel codex reads on the matter. what can be confirmed though, is that sanguinary guard did exist with their current form of wargear (possibly including the masks) back when sanguinius was still around. assuming they never changed the wargear at all in 10,000 years as the codex suggests, the masks would have presumably existed for them back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Tycho does not have a death mask; he has a golden face plate crafted to mimic his perfect features on his unblemished side of his face to cover up the rictus grin the ork psyker gave him with his attack. the plate only covers half of his face. the concept was designed based off the phantom of the opera character. according to official canon on the 40k lexicanum, there's no reference of what millennium they started using the masks, only that they are worn to honor the fallen. but they also only cited this information from Deathwatch: First Founding, so you may want to check what the blood angel codex reads on the matter. what can be confirmed though, is that sanguinary guard did exist with their current form of wargear (possibly including the masks) back when sanguinius was still around. assuming they never changed the wargear at all in 10,000 years as the codex suggests, the masks would have presumably existed for them back then. This. The Codex (to my knowledge, mine is not with me right now) has never said when it started. Except for the Death Mask of Sanguinius, which was the one specifically modeled on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinhorn Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The Death Masks could be symbolic like the DeathShroud. Once you are in the Sanginary Guard you are officially dead,Their lives are now meaningless for themselves,they only live for the Primarch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martok Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Thanks for the discussion everyone this has been very informative. After seeing some of the advice started to work on my version of the FW champ for the BAs: http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u649/Bloody-Dice/WIP/Heresy%20Blood%20Angels%20WIP/IMG_2394_zpsfb7ca346.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The Death Masks could be symbolic like the DeathShroud.Once you are in the Sanginary Guard you are officially dead,Their lives are now meaningless for themselves,they only live for the Primarch Except that the Death Masks aren't exclusive to the Sanguinary Guard. Dante also gets one. Also, in previous editions, any commander or non-special hero could upgrade to get a death mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Devil Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 It is a common Pre-Heresey motif at least for the sanguinary guard. In "Fear to thread" it mentions the sanguinary guard's masks having Sanguinius' face. I remember because I thought it was kind of pretentious of Sanguinius to do that. Kind of like George Foreman naming all of his kids after himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 It is a common Pre-Heresey motif at least for the sanguinary guard. In "Fear to thread" it mentions the sanguinary guard's masks having Sanguinius' face. I remember because I thought it was kind of pretentious of Sanguinius to do that. Kind of like George Foreman naming all of his kids after himself. That doesn't mean Sanguinius told them to, though. I mean, they could have done it to be more like their primarch. I don't know, I don't really like the idea of all of them wearing the death mask of someone who had yet to die. That isn't a death mask, that is a living mask. Dumb. I guess there is another fault I find with Swallow. As much as I liked Fear to Tread, I wish he would stop writing the Blood Angels. Let someone else like ADB or Dan Abnett write it, or give another author a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 according to official canon on the 40k lexicanum, there's no reference of what millennium they started using the masks, only that they are worn to honor the fallen. but they also only cited this information from Deathwatch: First Founding, so you may want to check what the blood angel codex reads on the matter. Because everybody knows Lexicanum is official canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Dew Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 It is a common Pre-Heresey motif at least for the sanguinary guard. In "Fear to thread" it mentions the sanguinary guard's masks having Sanguinius' face. I remember because I thought it was kind of pretentious of Sanguinius to do that. Kind of like George Foreman naming all of his kids after himself. It could also be a Psychological thing.. if you get close enough to Sanguinius to be a threat your surrounded by a bunch of 8'+ tall people armed to the teeth that are wearing a copy Sanguinius' unmoving face, TBH I'd find that some what unnerving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Devil Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 It is a common Pre-Heresey motif at least for the sanguinary guard. In "Fear to thread" it mentions the sanguinary guard's masks having Sanguinius' face. I remember because I thought it was kind of pretentious of Sanguinius to do that. Kind of like George Foreman naming all of his kids after himself. It could also be a Psychological thing.. if you get close enough to Sanguinius to be a threat your surrounded by a bunch of 8'+ tall people armed to the teeth that are wearing a copy Sanguinius' unmoving face, TBH I'd find that some what unnerving I think if you mean to do harm to a Primarch you better be damn sure of your abilities and unlikely to be unnerved by masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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