GodEmperorOfMankind Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hi guys, price wise both models are near enough the same, I prefer the blades look to the drake, but does anyone know how it plays, or should I use is as a counts as drake? I was also thinking of converting a drake using the drake wings and the storm talon cockpit/engines. What do you reckon I shoul do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hell Blade has two Reapers and AV10 all-around. The Heldrake has an AP3 template and a S7 Vector Strike with AV 12/12/10. For existing in the same slot, I'd be inclined to take the Heldrake in any almost any scenario. I'm curious to try a Hell Talon bomber, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Wow, bit of a difference then! Guess it'll be a drake then, shame I'm not a fan of the model, tho I think I could do a conversion as I suggested earlier. What does a hell talon do? Any other suggestions on making a hell drake? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 What does a hell talon do? As he said, its an AV 10 flyers with 2 Reaper Autocannons, essentially it's a flying rifleman dreadnought. They're decent at air-to-air combat, since S7 is often strong enough to take down flyers, also they're okay at killing light vehicles. The problem is that the Helldrake is just as effective at killing air targets (on average causing 3 S7 hits, same as the Talon), but it also has all the other bonuses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 That's the Hellblade fighter, I asked about the Helltalon bomber :) I agree the Drake is better that the Blade tho, which is a shame as I much prefer the look of the blade Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty and Stompy Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 If you really like the Hellblade model, you should get it. This game is all about aesthetics really. I game with a local player that uses his Hellblades as Heldrakes because he prefers the model. I'm sure most people would let you do that in most games anyway, and then you have the model you like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazath Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hell talon is similar to Hell blade, except that it also has Twinlinked Lascannon and about eight bombs. I would still go for Helldrake. Its like 40points more, but its template weapon, vector strike, and much better durability is worth the cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 That's the Hellblade fighter, I asked about the Helltalon bomber ;) I agree the Drake is better that the Blade tho, which is a shame as I much prefer the look of the blade Ah, my mistake, I always get them mixed up. The bomber is best for anti-infantry, the problem is that they're not as good as the Heldrake in the same role. The bombs are nice with a Lascannon and reaper they're good for hunting air, but overall the drake is just going to be more useful and survivable. It's really a shame though, because like you, I love the look of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I was also thinking of converting a drake using the drake wings and the storm talon cockpit/engines. What do you reckon I shoul do? I found this when i was looking for Drake conversions. And this is what i think GW should have made it look in the first place, and it is what my future Drake will look like: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.p...on-the-Heldrake Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Remember when making a Heldrake conversion that you can perform the Meteoric Descent strike on anything that your wing passes over during its move. Don't shortchange your capability by making it too streamlined. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 wow! thanks Snejk, that's definitely nearer the look I'm going for, though I think I want a cockpit on it still though. @-Max- Whats the metoric descent do? I think I'd rather have a model I like than worry about a rule though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Purple Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Its the rule that lets the heldrake vectorstrike even though it is a vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Helltalon= FW crap resin=don't go near it even 50 miles=money throw in the sewers. Seriously, if you want to take the risk to pay 60£ for a bend/holed resin model, then give this money to honnos or poor people, they will gladly take it, and you would have done something good. Ordered 5 items to FW, got 4 defaults, send the defaults back, got 3 defaults this time..., this little thing lasted 6 months, had to convert/repair the :woot: out of those models. This is why i always sratchbuild/kitbash FW models from GW models, the only thing i still buy at FW are etched brasses... PLus like said, For the same slot, the Helldrake is superior, deamon machine with all the good rules that come in the package, 12 av and vector strikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AekoldHelbrass Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Helltalon= FW crap resin=don't go near it even 50 miles=money throw in the sewers.Ordered 5 items to FW, got 4 defaults, send the defaults back, got 3 defaults this time..., this little thing lasted 6 months, had to convert/repair the :D out of those models. Well, and I thought I have a negative experience with FW.... The thing is, their vehicle kits are really bad, even in Imerial Armour Aeronautica on the photo of Storm Eagle it is bent. But their smaller kits are just mindbogglingly awesome, like Decimator, or preachers of Nurgle, or rogue psykers, they're done with soft and flexible resin, without a single bubble, without a single defect. And Hell Blade is just 2 pieces kit, unlike Hell Talon it's quite good. Back on topic, Hell Talon originally was made for Apocalypse games, it had bombs with Apocalyptic Barrage templates, and could drop as many as you want in single turn. That was really cool. Now you can buy those bombs separately for Apocalypse games, but basic model is no good for normal 40k games, but you still can use it if you bought it for Apocalypse. Hell Blade and Helldrake basically have different roles in your game. Hell Blade is awesome interceptor, with 4 twin-linked autocannon shots they are way cheaper and way more agile than havocs with flakk missles. And Helldrake is ground attack aircraft basically, baleflamer is always better option than hades, vector strike is the only thing he can do against other flyers and it's still only D3 attacks. So if you're facing BA or GK or other Chaos - Hell Blade is still viable option since you can drop his flyers out of the sky, and even if they will drop your flyer - it's cheaper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Fun fact: I think I have actually seen more pictures of heldrake conversions than actual heldrakes on the forums... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AekoldHelbrass Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Fun fact: I think I have actually seen more pictures of heldrake conversions than actual heldrakes on the forums... :D That's simple: why would anyone post helldrakes if we can see the photos on GW website? :) unless they're painted really cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3274928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Hell Blade and Helldrake basically have different roles in your game. Hell Blade is awesome interceptor, with 4 twin-linked autocannon shots they are way cheaper and way more agile than havocs with flakk missles. And Helldrake is ground attack aircraft basically, baleflamer is always better option than hades, vector strike is the only thing he can do against other flyers and it's still only D3 attacks. I hadn't considered the cost of a Hell Blade versus Flakk Havocs; that is a good point. I'm still inclined to give the Heldrake the capabilities advantage since it's dual purpose. The vector strike is also d3+1, so you're guaranteed at least 2 S7 auto-hits on the side armour, and you're going to hit 3 times or more 2/3 of the time and never risk completely missing from bad die rolls. Twin-linked BS3 from the Reapers should get you 3 out of 4 hits on average, which isn't as good IMO. The Hell Blade can strike from range, which is an edge over the Vector Strike, but the Heldrake can target two units per turn, which I think is much more useful over all. It can intercept flyers and attack ground targets, which is way more useful when planning a high speed run across the table. I wish the Hell Talon had stayed in the Heavy Support slot. It would have been nice to run a flying daemon prince in HQ, Heldrakes in FA, and Hell Talons in HS. I want to work up a CSM based "flying circus" list. There's a guy in my FLGS who does it with the Daemons codex, and he gives everybody hella trouble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3275101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 the swoop attack is D3+1 auto hits, so pretty decent vs flyers (and especially flying MC's). Baleflamer is just awesome vs all infantry, except small units of terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268812-heldrake-or-hellblade/#findComment-3276865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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