Coping with Orks....

[nurglespuss]

Hi guys,

 

well the long and the short of it is, I'm not the most experienced Blood Angel player, I usually play Codex Marines, with thei usualy tatical lists.

 

That would be a strongly anchored gunline, with some fast moving flankers, librarians etc.

 

However, I'm finding things harder with Blood Angels.

 

I've tried to keep my list 'Assaulty' and in character, but it doesn't seem to be working against Orks.

 

In particular I'm suffering against:

 

Gretching artilary (SO cheap and rather good, with multi wounds and high toughness)

Killa Kans and Deff dreads - these just seem to march implacably accross the battlefield, shielding boyz units.

Boyz - even if I wittle them down with firepower, and get the charge in (even with death company) - I'm still not lasting long before becoming overwhelmed...

Battle Wagon - simple enough, armour 14 is tough!

 

I get the feeling that as battles become bigger, I'll stand more chance.

 

At my disposal (painted) I have:

 

Reclusiarch (Jump Pack) - Estoban
Chaplain (Jump Pack) - Percius
Captain (Power Fist) - Raldoran
Captain (Jump Pack, Lightning Claws) - Erias the Lost
Astorath the Grim

10x Tactical marines (Plasma/Plasma Cannon) - Squad Lamaan
10x Tactical marines (Flamer/Heavy Bolter) - Squad Targon
5x Assault Marines (Flamer, Power Weapon) - Squad Lornas
5x Death Company (Jump Packs, 2 Plasma Pistols, Power fist) - Squad Pinion
5x Death Company (Jump Packs, Thunder Hammer) - Squad Bical
5x Death Company (Jump Packs, 3x Power Fists, 2x power Weapons, Thunder Hammer) - Squad Heronicus
Death Company Dreadnought - Laneus

5x Vanguard (2x Plasma Pistol, 3x Power Weapons) - Squad Angelicus
Land Speeder (Heavy Bolter/Assault Cannon)
Drop Pod
Rhino
Rhino
Storm Talon (Assault Cannons, Lascannons) - Stratos

Dreadnought (Assault Cannon) - Ancient Narimor
5x Terminators (Assault Cannon) - Squad Heraldicus
5x Sanguinary Guard - Squad Pelanor

Predator (Autocannon, Lascannons) - Adrius

5x Devestator marines (Lascannon, 2x Missile Launcher, Plasma cannon, Power fist) - Squad Agrakis [another 5 marines on the way to being added so i can split the squad/weapons).

 

Any help appreciated!!

 

Most of our games so far have been 500-750pts moving up to 1000pts soon.

[Greatcoldone]

Not the most experienced, so correct me if you disagree with anything, but Orks are very assaulty(duh) so what you probably want to be doing is adding in something like my friend has used to large effect against orks: a rhino/Vindicator pairing. As they are both fast, you can get within range soon, and outmanoeuvre the orks relatively easily. Stuff some tactical marines in the rhino, give them a few blasts, then bolter and assault anything that lives. With the models you've got, though, I would say that you are not using the manoeuvrability of your land speeder/storm talon to a great enough extent.

On a wider note, concentrate your fire more. If you can't take down some deff dreads/killa kans with that many lascannons then you are doing something wrong. Glad I could help!

[nurglespuss]

Cheers :)

 

I havent used lascannons in the low point games yet!!

 

My last battle was:

 

Captain, 2 x tactical squads (one H. bolter/Flamer, one Plasma Cannon/Plasma Gun), 4 death company with jump packs.

 

Previously I went more assaulty with everything with jump packs/death company dread/chaplain etc.

[Calnus]

Try Mephiston.  Orks don't have the low-AP shooting that takes him out, and he can and will annihilate anything short of a large pack of Power-Klaw orks in one go.  Make sure to challenge to ensure the PK can't swing back, or dies at initiative 7 if he accepts.

 

Otherwise, try a 10-man assault squad.  225 with a pair of meltaguns and a power weapon, 230 for a melta bomb to round it out.  Since I don't use razorbacks, thats my go-to troops choice.  5-man teams don't last long at all in this edition.  Can go cheaper with flamers for similar effect, but full anti-infantry instead of all-rounders.

[Theduke08]

As Calnus said Mephiston is a pro at smashing Orks, and you really should never field an assault squad as a 5 man squad.  Bump them up to 10 man with two meltas and you now have an effective way of taking down kanz and dredds.  

 

Also a standard libby paired with the assault squad can give you much higher damage output when paired with divination.

[nurglespuss]

Cool, thank you all for the great advice :)

 

I'll soon be adding a librarian, and have enough bits to make a squad of ten assault marines (which means I get to paint yellow helmets :D ).

 

I was also thinking of adding a whirlwind? and possibly an allied seige dreadnought (anti infantry) to go in a detachment with the storm talon, and possibly a landraider redeemer in much larger games?

[AngryCanadian]

mephy shouldnt charge into boyz squads

he will fight the same squad for half the game

 

at the 500pt level orks are close to unstoppable

 

use more points and it will be a better fight for u

[SnorriSnorrison]

Orks are good at burying you in massed attacks, obviously, but they're pretty easy prey otherwise. Since you've already played with DC against them, I'd go the full route, use at least a 5 men-squad DC and a Dread with Talons. Against armies like Orks, this thing is going to massacre everything in its way.

I like that you're using Tactical Marines, they've gotten much better this edition, and against Orks, they're quite good actually since the bolters will hurt boyz pretty badly. Also, Flamers are always a good choice, but don't forget your anti-tank at close range! Assault Squads can carry 2 Meltaguns, and they should. With Prescience from a Librarian they're wicked good at taking out tanks, and even the battle wagon is only AV 10 in the back. *hint hint* ;)

 

 

For Heavy Support, I'd field two units. One is a vindicator, for when you need to get rid or armoured Nobz with one shot. The other is a Stormraven with Hurricane Bolters, just because they're cool and can add some nice support for your squads on the ground.

 

Also, you want to play at 1750 or 2000 points, because the higher the points level, the better BA get. Our tools are great, but still costly.
 

 

Orks are deadly when getting the charge, so make sure that it's the other way round! Act aggressively, combine units and support your squads with Librarians/Chaplains and get as many kills as possible in one turn so they break. Other than that, good hunt! :)


Snorri

[nurglespuss]

cheerscheers snorri! :D

[ianj253]

As others have suggested mephy is great for dealing with orks.  DC also do a great job against orks. They will strike first and do some real damage against orks. Taking them with bolters is a good idea as they will ignore most orks armor saves. Dreads with claws also can do great things against orks. A squad of missle devs is also a sound choice. Use there blast templates to amass wounds on big squads. 

[Jolemai]

You've come up against a Battlewagon at 500-750 points?!?!

 

Looking at your list I would suggest the following (some of which I'm sure you are doing already);

 

~ Send your Vanguard after the Gretchin Artillery. Remember you can pre-measure everything so with only a D6" scatter there is every chance of you getting a charge off.

~ Take those Rhinos to use as cover for your jumpers or to get a full 24" ram on that Battlewagon (plan B). Remember that your Tactical Squads can combat squad and that both squads can still embark on it if necessary.

~ Your DC Dreadnought will need the Drop Pod for delivery until you get a Storm Raven. Place it on a flank and in cover/or use your Smoke Launcher on the turn it lands.

~ Take that Land Speeder against Orks but place it in reserve to either come on the board edge or to Deep Strike. Points-wise it's better to swap the Assault Cannon for a second Heavy Bolter and for future expanding a second (or even third) Speeder would be a good idea for saturation.

~ You are really lacking a Librarian and a Sanguinary Priest. Is there any way you could proxy one for the time being?

~ If points allow, would you be willing to proxy one of your Chaplains as Lemartes?

~ Your Predator is the right spec to take out the Kans and Dreads. With the Devastators you will have a decent amount of fire on them.

 

With regards to further additions, what type of list do you want to run? You say assault orientated but the only real assault element is your DC with eat up an enormous amount of points in that configuration. Other than that, good luck. It had taken me ages to beat Orks but it is doable once you become more familiar with them.

[nurglespuss]

so vanguard can charge when they deepstrike? did I miss a big something?

[AngryCanadian]

OK

 

Could someone explain to me why Mephy Charging 30 Boyz is a good idea?

 

Turn 2 Mephy gets the charge

He challenges the nob and kills him, Ork lose combat by 1 and are fearless

 

Next combat phase

Mephy can only kill 5 boyz at most, 24 Boyz are fearless

 

Turn 3

mephy kills at most 5 more, 19 boyz are fealess

 

Next combat phase

Mephy kills 5 more at most, 14 boyz are fearless

 

Turn 4

Mephy again kills 5 Orks at most, 9 boyz lose by 5 and take LD test on LD-4

(if for 2 of the above rounds of combat Mephy does not kill 5 boyz, they are over 11 and still fearless)

 

Im having a hard time with why its such a good idea for mephy to fight boyz, does him killing 30-60 pts a turn seem like a good use to you?

 

 

As I mentioned before Orks are very good at low point games (trust me I play Orks competitively and BA's just for fun)

They can easily outnumber you 3/1, they can take 77 models at 500pts (not using grotz)

 

You need to force them to take wounds, lots of them, the standard assault squad, Baal Preds, DC

The AP Value of the wounds dont matter, its how many wounds you can get them to take in the first place, even with Armour saves the boyz are going to lose a lot of models

[Jolemai]

so vanguard can charge when they deepstrike? did I miss a big something?

Rather than spoil the surprise, you might want to read about Heroic Intervention on page 27 on your Codex

Also this thread on Vanguard Veterans was bumped recently with some decent information on it. Back in the day, the recommended number of models to have in the squad was seven -> 1 in the centre, five around that model and then the last one on the second ring placed closest to the target to give the unit an extra inch charge range...

[nurglespuss]

Wow! Cheers, completely missed that!!

 

I only bought them because I liked the models ;p

 

Excellent!!