Soulgrinder

[Iron Sage]

I think both are good but different. One is extraordinary tough piece of artillery, and the other a preassure unit so to speak. For me, its a tad hard to compared the two to be honest.

[Morollan]

I'm of the opinion that Nurgle + Plegm is over rated.  I prefer Slaanesh (for fleet and extra speed in running) + torrent.  Soul griders are a good CC unit, and giving that up just for 1 S8 blast per turn seems like a waste.  Being Nurgle means you essentially will always sit back as you forgo the ability to run, and forgo the abilty to sweep in combat. (Which means anything that cannot hurt you just runs away.)

 

If I want something that kills things in close combat then I have plenty of options in the Daemons book, most of which do it far better than a Soul Grinder. I take a Soul Grinder for Skyfire. Having the Phlegm Cannon adds a bit of icing on the cake. My experience with the Soul Grinder earlier in the week is a statistical anomaly. Given only average dice rolls, it should have made a significant impact on the game. If however you cannot roll a hit on a scatter dice or less than 10" for scatter distance then you are likely to struggle with any blast weapon. Not rolling more than a 3 to hit or on armour penetration for the entire game is also going to hurt your chances of killing anything. It doesn't make the Nurlge Soul Grinder with Phlegm at bad option by any means.

[Iron Sage]

 

I'm of the opinion that Nurgle + Plegm is over rated.  I prefer Slaanesh (for fleet and extra speed in running) + torrent.  Soul griders are a good CC unit, and giving that up just for 1 S8 blast per turn seems like a waste.  Being Nurgle means you essentially will always sit back as you forgo the ability to run, and forgo the abilty to sweep in combat. (Which means anything that cannot hurt you just runs away.)

 

If I want something that kills things in close combat then I have plenty of options in the Daemons book, most of which do it far better than a Soul Grinder. I take a Soul Grinder for Skyfire. Having the Phlegm Cannon adds a bit of icing on the cake. My experience with the Soul Grinder earlier in the week is a statistical anomaly. Given only average dice rolls, it should have made a significant impact on the game. If however you cannot roll a hit on a scatter dice or less than 10" for scatter distance then you are likely to struggle with any blast weapon. Not rolling more than a 3 to hit or on armour penetration for the entire game is also going to hurt your chances of killing anything. It doesn't make the Nurlge Soul Grinder with Phlegm at bad option by any means.

Indeed.

And as I said, I find the many of the variations kind of hard to compare since they do completly different stuff, and so are used for different purposes in different lists.

[breng77]

 

I'm of the opinion that Nurgle + Plegm is over rated.  I prefer Slaanesh (for fleet and extra speed in running) + torrent.  Soul griders are a good CC unit, and giving that up just for 1 S8 blast per turn seems like a waste.  Being Nurgle means you essentially will always sit back as you forgo the ability to run, and forgo the abilty to sweep in combat. (Which means anything that cannot hurt you just runs away.)

 

If I want something that kills things in close combat then I have plenty of options in the Daemons book, most of which do it far better than a Soul Grinder. I take a Soul Grinder for Skyfire. Having the Phlegm Cannon adds a bit of icing on the cake. My experience with the Soul Grinder earlier in the week is a statistical anomaly. Given only average dice rolls, it should have made a significant impact on the game. If however you cannot roll a hit on a scatter dice or less than 10" for scatter distance then you are likely to struggle with any blast weapon. Not rolling more than a 3 to hit or on armour penetration for the entire game is also going to hurt your chances of killing anything. It doesn't make the Nurlge Soul Grinder with Phlegm at bad option by any means.

I'm not saying Nurgle is Bad, but Slaanesh gets the same sky fire, while still having a better (IMO) role in games where you don't need it.  Plegm is OK but expensive.  The reason I like Soul Grinders in CC is because they can be added to a combat with minimal risk (don't test for instability so they allow for safe multi charges) and plenty of things cannot hurt them (I won a game the other night against another daemon army simply by running grinders into combat.)   Soul Ginders in Combat give you an answer to High AV targets, and Multi wound models like paladins (Tie up the hammers with a different squad and pop the paladins with S10).  It depends on the role you want to use if for, but to me 180 points for 3 S7 skyfire shots, or a S8 blast (and 3 S7 snapfires) is a lot.

[Morollan]

It depends on the role you want to use if for, but to me 180 points for 3 S7 skyfire shots, or a S8 blast (and 3 S7 snapfires) is a lot.

 

I thought the ordnance + snap fire rule only applied to non-vehicles?

[minigun762]

Nope, it's for vehicles too. That's one of the major reasons I don't like Phlegm anymore, as its paying points to (potentially) weaken the harvester gun.

[Iron Sage]

Nope, it's for vehicles too. That's one of the major reasons I don't like Phlegm anymore, as its paying points to (potentially) weaken the harvester gun.

On one with Nurgle and even MoT, IMO it`s very decent. You basically have an extraordinary tough piece of artillery,which surely can be useful in some lists.

If you however arm it with something else, like the Torrent flamer or the str10/1 single shot, it becomes another unit IMO almost entirely. I honestly find it a tad hard to compare, since for instance a Slanny grinder with torrent flamer moving forward is a /tough as nails type of walker which pretty much serves as a preassure unit. The Nurgle artillery version is very, very different though, but I dont know if its less useful. Just different IMO. Serves very much a different purpose.

[breng77]

The issue I have with Plegm is that given how fast the rest of the Daemons are you end up having to risk hitting your own guys with it at some point, at which point the grinder starts to lose effectiveness.  I don't think it is a bad choice, just not one that I think takes full advantage of the grinder as a unit.  In addition getting 25% cover for a Grinder is no easy feat on some tables.

[Morollan]

Nope, it's for vehicles too. That's one of the major reasons I don't like Phlegm anymore, as its paying points to (potentially) weaken the harvester gun.

 

D'oh! As the Ordnance rules say "non-vehicle unit" I never even thought to look under the vehicle section to see if exactly the same rule applies to vehicles too!

[breng77]

yup the difference is that they can move and fire ordinance.

[Morollan]

Looks like I played it wrong then. Fortunately it did no damage of any kind throughout the entire battle so no harm done!

[Learn2Eel]

Think of the Nurgle Soul Grinder as a Leman Russ Battle Tank with a half-range battle cannon, a skyfire autocannon hll-mounted weapon, the ability to shoot in any direction (walker pivot), it is far harder to destroy (Shrouded), has an invulnerable save in combat, has an extra hull point, oh and in combat enemies strike its front armour (thirteen) and have to deal with four-five Strength 10 AP2 attacks at WS3 I3. And that variation is only twenty or so points more than a standard Leman Russ Battle Tank. Remember that, and you can see why the Nurgle Soul Grinder is so amazing - it's versatility, durability and damage output are almost second to none, and combine to make it one of the best land vehicles (and probably the best walker) in the game.

 

The Slaanesh Soul Grinder with the Baleful Torrent is entirely different. It is intended to run up with all the other incredibly quick units in the army - Seekers, Flesh Hounds, Fiends, Beasts, etc - and put the pressure on, forcing enemies to target what is already a very durable model with their anti-tank weaponry and not your advancing Greater Daemons/Daemon Princes. It works best as a fast "all-out assault" army that floods the board with targets and messes with your opponent's target priority. That, and it reaves Infantry at a good 20" too - light infantry are literally toast, meaning it can clear out hordes/chaff two turns before your forces get into melee, meaning your Daemonettes and the like can actually go for the elite infantry and their ilk. Even MEQs fear it due to the sheer number of cover-ignoring saves it forces that (pending an FAQ) may also be Rending.

 

The two are incomparable in terms of their role, honestly.

[Iron Sage]

Think of the Nurgle Soul Grinder as a Leman Russ Battle Tank with a half-range battle cannon, a skyfire autocannon hll-mounted weapon, the ability to shoot in any direction (walker pivot), it is far harder to destroy (Shrouded), has an invulnerable save in combat, has an extra hull point, oh and in combat enemies strike its front armour (thirteen) and have to deal with four-five Strength 10 AP2 attacks at WS3 I3. And that variation is only twenty or so points more than a standard Leman Russ Battle Tank. Remember that, and you can see why the Nurgle Soul Grinder is so amazing - it's versatility, durability and damage output are almost second to none, and combine to make it one of the best land vehicles (and probably the best walker) in the game.

 

The Slaanesh Soul Grinder with the Baleful Torrent is entirely different. It is intended to run up with all the other incredibly quick units in the army - Seekers, Flesh Hounds, Fiends, Beasts, etc - and put the pressure on, forcing enemies to target what is already a very durable model with their anti-tank weaponry and not your advancing Greater Daemons/Daemon Princes. It works best as a fast "all-out assault" army that floods the board with targets and messes with your opponent's target priority. That, and it reaves Infantry at a good 20" too - light infantry are literally toast, meaning it can clear out hordes/chaff two turns before your forces get into melee, meaning your Daemonettes and the like can actually go for the elite infantry and their ilk. Even MEQs fear it due to the sheer number of cover-ignoring saves it forces that (pending an FAQ) may also be Rending.

 

The two are incomparable in terms of their role, honestly.

Thank you for arguing my point in a far superior way, sir.

[minigun762]

I'd also consider the stock grinder with DoTz. Mostly as a value choice as it still maintains the skyfire and good durability of the other options but saves you some points.

Most of the time you'll just walk it forward firing the harvester until you're in assault range of a good target. AV13 means you aren't scared of krak grenades either.

[breng77]

I agree with that both serve a role, the argument I would present is do Daemons need(or want) a Leman Russ battle tank?  Also remember that Leman Russes can shoot Ordinance and not snap fire due to special rules.  To each their own, but I feel that there is a bit more synergy in the Forward moving grinder, than one sitting in the back.

[minigun762]

Sadly the leman russ lost the ability to fire ordnance and it's weapons.

[Iron Sage]

I dont know, I think daemons certainly can have a need of it. Let me explain:

 

Kugath + 3 soulgrinders is a nice base for some seriously tough artillery platforms. Given that Nurgle is naturally slow, to me, that set up sounds as if it might work more than okay in a mono God list. Ally in CSM or Guard for more tanks and all of a sudden, you have a very, very nasty artillery batallion that takes some serious effort to neutralize.

 

IMO the Soulgrinder is an incredible unit, in that it can be modified to serve many and very varied, purposes. Cheap Tzeentch version is good value for its points, as is agressive slaneesh and even Khorne versions. But the Nurgle version certainly has its place with its ordnance (not that hard to get +3 cover using another transport or tank, so its not as if you need a ruin for it to work ;) ), and is even a good choice using other weapons as well.

 

In short, I think the Soulgrinder is just an excellent unit, and to my eyes, its not one unit, but more 4-7 variations that all make it work in unique ways in a list.

[breng77]

I can see that if you ran with Allies, I was thinkiong more Pure Daemons which have so many fast assault units that would be in danger from the blasts, but if you ran Daemon primary with Say IG you could run 3 Griders, 3 Russes, etc.

[minigun762]

I'm just happy to have more than one viable option.

[Iron Sage]

I'm just happy to have more than one viable option.

Likewise, it`s certainly a breath of fresh air! :)

[minigun762]

I'm flirting with the idea of giving a soul grinder the warp gaze. Of all of the added shooting, it's the only one that can be used against air. Yes, BS1 sucks but if it hits, it's going to do some severe damage.

 

The added bonus is that it's an instant kill threat to T4 and T5 and any vehicle on the table.