How do I use base and layer paints in unison?

[War Angel]

Ok, so like the topic states. I've primed my models black, and put the base coat of ceramite white down. It's a little sloppy because I just brushed it on, I tried using alittle bit of water with it to help it spread on smooth (I always have difficulty with white). So it's not on perfect.

 

Now I'm going back in with a smaller brush and making sure I really got the paint on, doing several coats to make sure the color is even and doesn't have the weird... Pooling? That I always have with white.

 

 

If I'm going to put white scar, a layer paint, on to the model next, do I need to have the base coat perfect? Or is that the layers job? How am I supposed I be using these two together????

[Razblood]

You want the Ceramite White layer to be as smooth as possible and then essentially layer highlight it with the White Scar leaving the Ceramite White in the shadows and whatever you're using as a shade in the deepest recesses.

 

Ceramite White is slightly off-white witha very slight Grey tint whereas White Scar is pure white (well as pure as GW gets anyway :lol: )

[War Angel]

Oh ok, so I'm doing right by patiently applying this over and over to make sure it's perfect.

[War Angel]

So my next question is, what's the best way to achieve a good even coverage of my base? I'm finding it takes along time, and I fear my brush is slowly breaking down. I have to dip a lot, and the little mixture of water an paint dissapears so fast.

 

 

Also, is my order

 

Base

Shade

Layer

 

??

 

Thanks or the help :D

[Sanguine Eternal]

I don't know if its just me thinking this, but why are you priming them in black if you are painting your models white?  That will be a big reason why your white base coverage is difficult to apply...  You should be priming in white.  Painting white is already difficult enough, and by priming in black, you're never going to get that white looking good.

I prime in black for darker colour paint jobs, and white primer for a lighter colour, and brighter paint job.  You will find your paints almost streaky if painting white over black.

 

So I would suggest priming in white first then applying your base coat, which can be thinned slightly to flow smoothly over your model, and once you are happy with your coverage of probably 1-2 coats, move on to the next layer.  That is what I would do, hope it helps.

[War Angel]

If you look at my WIP, I'm sure you'll see why I prime black. For the most part my models are a dark blue. But I think I made some good work tonight on the white, it might have taken awhile, but I think it worked out.

[Sanguine Eternal]

Wow, you have quite the heavily converted army.  I really dig it.  I wish I was that good with green stuff.  I've been practicing on some chaos marines to nurglefy them and they came out pretty good, but nothing as extensive as your work.  Truly impressive.

Back to the colours.  I see what you are saying now, I was under the impression they were like white scars for some reason, my mistake.  I really like the colour scheme.  My only other suggestion is maybe prime the legs seperately just for ease of painting them white.  I've seen people drill out a hole where the torso sits, and put bamboo skewers in to hold them while you spray them.  I bet it might save some time on painting the white, and might save some detail in the legs because you're putting less coats of paint on.  Just a thought.  

 

Besides that, your models look really cool.  Keep up the good work, can't wait to see more.

[Kierdale]

Personally I use this order: Undercoat, Basecoat, Layer (perhaps two) then Shade. But I know some people do the Shade before Layer highlights.

 

Best advice is probably to experiment and see which you prefer.

[Gurth]

Ok, so like the topic states. I've primed my models black, and put the base coat of ceramite white down. It's a little sloppy because I just brushed it on, I tried using alittle bit of water with it to help it spread on smooth (I always have difficulty with white). So it's not on perfect.

My main question is: why do you put on a black coat first and then put white over the top of that?

[S.k.i.t.t.l.e]

If you really gotta have a black undercoat to start with, cover it with grey, then maybe even a lighter grey, before you put on anything that resembles white. It will be much easier. :)

[War Angel]

Thanks for all the replays. And thanks for the comments sanguine. I like the idea of priming the legs seperated, I'll have to remember that. I'm not sure how much I'll like that just because some of the conversions "fit" more when I have the legs and bodies attached, but I'll see if I can use that all the same.

 

 

Gurth and skittle, if you look at my WIP (in my sig) you might understand why I've been priming black. Thanks for the concern all the same :)

 

Thanks skittle for the suggestion of using gray, I'll be giving that a try.

 

Kierdale thanks for the order, I will try both and see how I like it. My plan is to shade using the dark blue shade, watered down. I should only use it in the shadows correct? Or do I coat the area lightly?

[Sanguine Eternal]

I know its not very good practice, but sometimes I put just a little bit of glue on a models area that I know I need to re-attach later just so I can get the pose right.  I see what you are saying with how your conversions kind of tie everything together, may be difficult.

Now, I have never used an airbrush, but plan to in the future.  But I bet you could do a neat enough job to prime both halves of your models in white/black after assembly.  I would still strongly recommend you somehow manage to prime the legs in white.

EDIT*

You could even test one model by priming the entire marine in white, and see how the blue turns out.  I still think it will be easier to get a nice white with that process, and still achieve a nice blue in the same process.  Dark blues still apply nicely over white in my opinion.

[Gurth]

Gurth and skittle, if you look at my WIP (in my sig) you might understand why I've been priming black.

I looked (admittedly, skipping approximately the middle half of the twelve pages), but I still don't see why you'd have to prime them black. There's white and grey primer which would both be much better-suited to light-coloured models than black primer is.

[War Angel]

Thanks, I'll give gray a try next time. It wasn't easy but I've got the legs looking good now for this batch

[Urkh]

I know the "pooling" problem you describe. As a Black Templar player, I had that problem a lot when I was first starting to paint my army. I also prime black and even do a full chaos black basecoat before going white. Before the new paint range, I would layer up from codex grey to fortress grey to skull white, but now with the new line, ceramite white is letting me skip that.

 

What I do is take a brush that's already well beaten up (as what I do will hurt the brush anyways), dip it in my water cup, do 6-10 strokes of the brush against the edge of the cup, then put paint on the brush. This will severely water down the ceramite white. Then apply the white to the parts you want it on, and make sure it's a nice, even coat. This will be a very thin coat. Keep on brushing the paint, even after your brush has almost nothing left on it. Because of all the water you had in the paint, it will take longer to dry. Just keep brushing until you don't see a difference in what you're doing anymore. Let this dry completely, and then repeat until you have a nice, even white throughout the model. Should take 3-4 coats.

 

The drop pod pic in my batrep thread, although not a very high quality picture, shows a lot of what it looks like after it's done.

[War Angel]

Are you painting the same spot till it dries?

[Urkh]

I'm painting the entire area that I had the paint in. Eventually it will feel like you're drybrushing, and that's when you're just about done, but not quite.  It will seem really thin at first when the paint is still really wet, but when it gets closer to the "dry brushing" stage, you'll see the white really get thicker and cover more and more.

[War Angel]

What kind of brush do you use? I use old brushes that I've cut in half to do my white

[Urkh]

yah, use your old brushes. If you use a new one, it will ruin it.

[War Angel]

Cut in half so that the bristles do all the work?

[Urkh]

That should work. I'm pretty sloppy when I do it, and i get paint in places I don't want it when I'm doing my vehicles. You're just doing legs, so I don't think that should be a problem, though you may want them on something so that you're not touching the legs with your hands while you're doing this. 

[Razblood]

I advise you pick up a bottle of white Liquitex Gesso.

 

You can apply a single unthinned coat of this to the legs which you can then apply your wash directly over and then follow up with 2-3 coats (layered not drybrushed) coats of whatever white paint you are using.

 

This will reduce thickness as the gesso will cover the black relatively well and gesso shrinks as it dries, effectively pulling into the detail.

 

Hopefully this will save you some time and effort :)