Ravenfeld Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 So I have a question, and it might be a little silly. I have this idea for this backwater chapter that has been out of touch with the Imperium for, oh, 8500 years or so, and they've kind of devolved to using mostly melee as their means of fighting. The ranged weapons they do have and use are almost entirely limited to projectile weapons, energy weapons having failed or run out of charge many many centuries ago. The point is how viable would a list be if I only used Bolter or Assault Cannon classed weapons? No melta, no plasma, even flamers might be a stretch. I realize it is quite the handicap, but how would you make it work? I suppose if push came to shove I could justify missile launchers, in a pinch. My main question is how would you deal with air threats or heavy armor? It would be tough but I am curious to see what you guys can come up with! Thanks, Raven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercus Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 How about auto cannons? Even lower tech than bolsters, easier to maintain, great at clomping aircraft. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Autocannons is definitely an option as well, can't believe I missed that... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Relying on power fists as AP2 or tank busters could work. Doesn't do much against AV14 or flyers sadly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Relying on power fists as AP2 or tank busters could work. Doesn't do much against AV14 or flyers sadly. Chainfists work against AV 14, And how about a quadgun for flyers? Are shotguns, grenades, grenade launchers and sniper rifles out of the mix? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Chainfist... duh. Totally missed that one! Assault cannons actually handle flyers and AV14 now that I think about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 When you say energy weapons are out are you including power weapons as energy weapons? As others have suggested Quad gun would be the most straight forward choice. Getting outside the box though for a chapter that's been cut off for 8500 years that would mean they might have access to some Heresy Era equipment. So you could run a Mortis Contemptor Dreadnaught with two TL assault cannons. Fits the theme of project and it's a pretty good anti flier unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I wouldn't exclude flamers. Compared to bolters, flamers are actually a very simple weapon. As for anti flyer and armor, a storm talon with any missile variant would be great. So how do you explain your power supply for power armor, ships, etc.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Flamers, meltas, plasma. They're useful, but not needed. You should be able to cope fine with MLs, autocannons and the like. Just do use flamers, as like as has been said, they're not complicated weapons, and free flamers in Tactical squads are good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 What about storm talons with heavy bolters. Sure the bolters arnt going to help, but you'll have flying assault cannons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 What about storm talons with heavy bolters. Sure the bolters arnt going to help, but you'll have flying assault cannons Why not just use the TML or Skyhammer then? Missiles really aren't that sophisticated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Relying on power fists as AP2 or tank busters could work. Doesn't do much against AV14 or flyers sadly. Chainfists work against AV 14, And how about a quadgun for flyers? Are shotguns, grenades, grenade launchers and sniper rifles out of the mix? I imagine shotguns through sniper rifles would still be usable, especially since its all hard ammunition that isn't particularly complicated to manufacture. Chainfist... duh. Totally missed that one! Assault cannons actually handle flyers and AV14 now that I think about it. Auto-Cannons could hurt fliers as well actually, although AV 14 would still present some unique challenges. When you say energy weapons are out are you including power weapons as energy weapons? As others have suggested Quad gun would be the most straight forward choice. Getting outside the box though for a chapter that's been cut off for 8500 years that would mean they might have access to some Heresy Era equipment. So you could run a Mortis Contemptor Dreadnaught with two TL assault cannons. Fits the theme of project and it's a pretty good anti flier unit. The Mortis Contemptor would work if I wasn't planning on using the SW Codex, and the Wolves are one of the few chapters that don't get access to that pretty toy. I wouldn't exclude flamers. Compared to bolters, flamers are actually a very simple weapon. As for anti flyer and armor, a storm talon with any missile variant would be great. So how do you explain your power supply for power armor, ships, etc.? Touche friend, I can't argue with that, flamers are in! The thing is they didn't have any ships until the Imperium found them, so that isn't an issue. As for power supplies for the armor, I wasn't aware that power armor needed a seperate power supply, I thought it linked to the astartes whose own body provided the power, but then I could just be very confused as I just woke up and don't have my head on straight. I suppose I would have to come up with a means of keeping the power armor going, then again they could just eventually use it like really heavy standard armor...making them strong bastards. Flamers, meltas, plasma. They're useful, but not needed. You should be able to cope fine with MLs, autocannons and the like. Just do use flamers, as like as has been said, they're not complicated weapons, and free flamers in Tactical squads are good. Fair enough! What about storm talons with heavy bolters. Sure the bolters arnt going to help, but you'll have flying assault cannons I perceive Storm Talons as a more modern development, so I don't know if I will be fielding them. If I do, I will be using missiles methinks. What about storm talons with heavy bolters. Sure the bolters arnt going to help, but you'll have flying assault cannons Why not just use the TML or Skyhammer then? Missiles really aren't that sophisticated. What you said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3333984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Touche friend, I can't argue with that, flamers are in! The thing is they didn't have any ships until the Imperium found them, so that isn't an issue. As for power supplies for the armor, I wasn't aware that power armor needed a seperate power supply, I thought it linked to the astartes whose own body provided the power, but then I could just be very confused as I just woke up and don't have my head on straight. I suppose I would have to come up with a means of keeping the power armor going, then again they could just eventually use it like really heavy standard armor...making them strong bastards. Fluff wise at least in the novel's I have read the armor has a power supply (reactor of some type) contained in the back pack. However you could make the argument that the power armor is maintained by the marines themselves handed down from marine to marine over the centuries and has a status akin to a holy relic. So it's not new they are just really well maintained antiques :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3334088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
roryokane Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Also, aren't they miniature fusion cores, meaning all you need to power them is hydrogen? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3337251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 Kind of off topic here guys, can we get back to the OT? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3337608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 3 rifleman dreadnoughts and 3 dakkapreds can lay down some serious firepower. In addition, stormtalons with skyhammer missiles are quite cost-effective. Also, land speeders with typhoon missile launcher/heavy bolter combination. That's plenty of armor-pwning stuff that also works great vs infantry and fliers. Also, a master of the forge with conversion beamer. Conversion beamers are ancient pre-heresy artifacts, and your chapter seems very old, so it'd be logical that they might possess a couple of those. :] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3340557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 Oh Giga, this inquiry isn't for my Iron Hands (Who have some conversion beamers ;) ). Its for a more tribal, space scott themed chapter. One that has been outside the imperium for a long, long time. Hence why I want more hard munitions and less energy based weapons. All those units would work, save the speeders, I think the anti-grav technology might be too fickle for this particular chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3341142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 It just occurs to me that foot slogging infantry with flamers is probably counter productive... anyone ever considered grey hunters without any special weapons? Seems silly, but then again.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3342065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 It just occurs to me that foot slogging infantry with flamers is probably counter productive... anyone ever considered grey hunters without any special weapons? Seems silly, but then again.. Why? If you want to shoot bolters on the move, than gray knights or tactical terminators are probably the best option but, again, why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3342099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 It just occurs to me that foot slogging infantry with flamers is probably counter productive... anyone ever considered grey hunters without any special weapons? Seems silly, but then again.. Why? If you want to shoot bolters on the move, than gray knights or tactical terminators are probably the best option but, again, why? Theme. Primarily its because I don't want energy weapons and flamers wouldn't provide any benefit until the unit was close enough for assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3342116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Tactical Terminators seem to be the thing for you, then. If you're picking any marine codex (seeing as you mention SW), then maybe deathwing termies with assault cannon and/or cyclone missile launcher might fit the bill? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3342392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I have never found flamers to be counter productive. If you get close to something you want to flame then they are helpful. If you get charged you can use it for wall of death. Like it or not C:SM tactical squads still suck if they are charged by an actual melee specialist unit. So the more lethal you can make that over watch firing the better. The best odds of getting wounds is that flamer. This is also important cause your gonna get charged by melee specialist units if your a foot slogging army. The simple math is you need lots of dice with a 10 man squad to even have a chance of wiping it out. That means you have to be within 12" of the target....which means you have to be in charge range that round and guaranteed charge range the next round. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3342524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted April 4, 2013 Author Share Posted April 4, 2013 Tactical Terminators seem to be the thing for you, then. If you're picking any marine codex (seeing as you mention SW), then maybe deathwing termies with assault cannon and/or cyclone missile launcher might fit the bill? So you're thinking as a small allied contingent? It could work, or I could just use Wolf Guard. Although part of me wants to make my TDA assaulty and in a crusader.... I have never found flamers to be counter productive. If you get close to something you want to flame then they are helpful. If you get charged you can use it for wall of death. Like it or not C:SM tactical squads still suck if they are charged by an actual melee specialist unit. So the more lethal you can make that over watch firing the better. The best odds of getting wounds is that flamer. This is also important cause your gonna get charged by melee specialist units if your a foot slogging army. The simple math is you need lots of dice with a 10 man squad to even have a chance of wiping it out. That means you have to be within 12" of the target....which means you have to be in charge range that round and guaranteed charge range the next round. That is a pretty solid point, two flamers provides some guaranteed hits on charging enemies and, being Grey Hunters as they will be, I will get counter-attack and be able to sword and pistol once close combat is engaged. I definitely want to make it a force that lacks a great deal of technology, I am even considering shifting away from vehicles at large and just getting bodies bodies bodies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3342811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaigo Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Getting some power for suits and or vehicle can ofc be introduced. Like have an plant that is protected at all cost have a generator. That generator each day produces enough to maintain the revered suits and vehicles. The use of scouts would seem justified as wearing a suit is an honour. Threats to the plant source make for nice skirmishes as it could use running water or heat or chemicals to produce the power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3344454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Marshall ulrick Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I believe the storm eagle is mentioned in the Horus heresy books as a heresy era support flier therefore an army cut off from the imperium for such a long time would venerate and almost obsessively maintain such a valuable asset. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273134-dakka-without-pew-pew/#findComment-3347482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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