Dakka without Pew Pew?

[Ravenfeld]

So I have a question, and it might be a little silly.

 

I have this idea for this backwater chapter that has been out of touch with the Imperium for, oh, 8500 years or so, and they've kind of devolved to using mostly melee as their means of fighting. The ranged weapons they do have and use are almost entirely limited to projectile weapons, energy weapons having failed or run out of charge many many centuries ago.

 

The point is how viable would a list be if I only used Bolter or Assault Cannon classed weapons? No melta, no plasma, even flamers might be a stretch. I realize it is quite the handicap, but how would you make it work? I suppose if push came to shove I could justify missile launchers, in a pinch.

 

My main question is how would you deal with air threats or heavy armor? It would be tough but I am curious to see what you guys can come up with!

Thanks,

Raven

[Stercus]

How about auto cannons? Even lower tech than bolsters, easier to maintain, great at clomping aircraft.

[Ravenfeld]

Autocannons is definitely an option as well, can't believe I missed that...

[minigun762]

Relying on power fists as AP2 or tank busters could work. Doesn't do much against AV14 or flyers sadly.

[Naminé]

Relying on power fists as AP2 or tank busters could work. Doesn't do much against AV14 or flyers sadly.

Chainfists work against AV 14, And how about a quadgun for flyers?

 

Are shotguns, grenades, grenade launchers and sniper rifles out of the mix?

[minigun762]

Chainfist... duh.

Totally missed that one!

 

Assault cannons actually handle flyers and AV14 now that I think about it.

[Azash]

When you say energy weapons are out are you including power weapons as energy weapons?

 

As others have suggested Quad gun would be the most straight forward choice. Getting outside the box though for a chapter that's been cut off for 8500 years that would mean they might have access to some Heresy Era equipment. So you could run a Mortis Contemptor Dreadnaught with two TL assault cannons. Fits the theme of project and it's a pretty good anti flier unit.

[BassWave]

I wouldn't exclude flamers. Compared to bolters, flamers are actually a very simple weapon. As for anti flyer and armor, a storm talon with any missile variant would be great.

 

So how do you explain your power supply for power armor, ships, etc.?

[DarkGuard]

Flamers, meltas, plasma. They're useful, but not needed. You should be able to cope fine with MLs, autocannons and the like.

 

Just do use flamers, as like as has been said, they're not complicated weapons, and free flamers in Tactical squads are good.

[War Angel]

What about storm talons with heavy bolters. Sure the bolters arnt going to help, but you'll have flying assault cannons

[DarkGuard]

What about storm talons with heavy bolters. Sure the bolters arnt going to help, but you'll have flying assault cannons

 

Why not just use the TML or Skyhammer then? Missiles really aren't that sophisticated.

[Ravenfeld]

 

Relying on power fists as AP2 or tank busters could work. Doesn't do much against AV14 or flyers sadly.

Chainfists work against AV 14, And how about a quadgun for flyers?

 

Are shotguns, grenades, grenade launchers and sniper rifles out of the mix?

 

I imagine shotguns through sniper rifles would still be usable, especially since its all hard ammunition that isn't particularly complicated to manufacture.

 

Chainfist... duh.

Totally missed that one!

 

Assault cannons actually handle flyers and AV14 now that I think about it.

 

Auto-Cannons could hurt fliers as well actually, although AV 14 would still present some unique challenges.

 

When you say energy weapons are out are you including power weapons as energy weapons?

 

As others have suggested Quad gun would be the most straight forward choice. Getting outside the box though for a chapter that's been cut off for 8500 years that would mean they might have access to some Heresy Era equipment. So you could run a Mortis Contemptor Dreadnaught with two TL assault cannons. Fits the theme of project and it's a pretty good anti flier unit.

 

The Mortis Contemptor would work if I wasn't planning on using the SW Codex, and the Wolves are one of the few chapters that don't get access to that pretty toy.

 

 

I wouldn't exclude flamers. Compared to bolters, flamers are actually a very simple weapon. As for anti flyer and armor, a storm talon with any missile variant would be great.

 

So how do you explain your power supply for power armor, ships, etc.?

 

Touche friend, I can't argue with that, flamers are in!

 

The thing is they didn't have any ships until the Imperium found them, so that isn't an issue. As for power supplies for the armor, I wasn't aware that power armor needed a seperate power supply, I thought it linked to the astartes whose own body provided the power, but then I could just be very confused as I just woke up and don't have my head on straight. I suppose I would have to come up with a means of keeping the power armor going, then again they could just eventually use it like really heavy standard armor...making them strong bastards.

 

Flamers, meltas, plasma. They're useful, but not needed. You should be able to cope fine with MLs, autocannons and the like.

 

Just do use flamers, as like as has been said, they're not complicated weapons, and free flamers in Tactical squads are good.

 

Fair enough!

 

What about storm talons with heavy bolters. Sure the bolters arnt going to help, but you'll have flying assault cannons

 

I perceive Storm Talons as a more modern development, so I don't know if I will be fielding them. If I do, I will be using missiles methinks.

 

 

What about storm talons with heavy bolters. Sure the bolters arnt going to help, but you'll have flying assault cannons

 

Why not just use the TML or Skyhammer then? Missiles really aren't that sophisticated.

 

What you said.

[Azash]

 

 

Touche friend, I can't argue with that, flamers are in!

 

The thing is they didn't have any ships until the Imperium found them, so that isn't an issue. As for power supplies for the armor, I wasn't aware that power armor needed a seperate power supply, I thought it linked to the astartes whose own body provided the power, but then I could just be very confused as I just woke up and don't have my head on straight. I suppose I would have to come up with a means of keeping the power armor going, then again they could just eventually use it like really heavy standard armor...making them strong bastards.

 

Fluff wise at least in the novel's I have read the armor has a power supply (reactor of some type) contained in the back pack. However you could make the argument that the power armor is maintained by the marines themselves handed down from marine to marine over the centuries and has a status akin to a holy relic. So it's not new they are just really well maintained antiques :)

[roryokane]

Also, aren't they miniature fusion cores, meaning all you need to power them is hydrogen?

[Ravenfeld]

Kind of off topic here guys, can we get back to the OT?

[Giga]

3 rifleman dreadnoughts and 3 dakkapreds can lay down some serious firepower. In addition, stormtalons with skyhammer missiles are quite cost-effective. Also, land speeders with typhoon missile launcher/heavy bolter combination. That's plenty of armor-pwning stuff that also works great vs infantry and fliers. 

 

Also, a master of the forge with conversion beamer. Conversion beamers are ancient pre-heresy artifacts, and your chapter seems very old, so it'd be logical that they might possess a couple of those. :] 

[Ravenfeld]

Oh Giga, this inquiry isn't for my Iron Hands (Who have some conversion beamers ;) ).

 

Its for a more tribal, space scott themed chapter. One that has been outside the imperium for a long, long time. Hence why I want more hard munitions and less energy based weapons. All those units would work, save the speeders, I think the anti-grav technology might be too fickle for this particular chapter.

[Ravenfeld]

It just occurs to me that foot slogging infantry with flamers is probably counter productive... anyone ever considered grey hunters without any special weapons? Seems silly, but then again..

[Giga]

It just occurs to me that foot slogging infantry with flamers is probably counter productive... anyone ever considered grey hunters without any special weapons? Seems silly, but then again..

Why?

 

If you want to shoot bolters on the move, than gray knights or tactical terminators are probably the best option but, again, why? 

[Ravenfeld]

 

It just occurs to me that foot slogging infantry with flamers is probably counter productive... anyone ever considered grey hunters without any special weapons? Seems silly, but then again..

Why?

 

If you want to shoot bolters on the move, than gray knights or tactical terminators are probably the best option but, again, why? 

 

Theme.

 

Primarily its because I don't want energy weapons and flamers wouldn't provide any benefit until the unit was close enough for assault.

[Giga]

Tactical Terminators seem to be the thing for you, then. If you're picking any marine codex (seeing as you mention SW), then maybe deathwing termies with assault cannon and/or cyclone missile launcher might fit the bill? 

[Azash]

I have never found flamers to be counter productive. If you get close to something you want to flame then they are helpful. If you get charged you can use it for wall of death. Like it or not C:SM tactical squads still suck if they are charged by an actual melee specialist unit. So the more lethal you can make that over watch firing the better. The best odds of getting wounds is that flamer.

 

This is also important cause your gonna get charged by melee specialist units if your a foot slogging army. The simple math is you need lots of dice with a 10 man squad to even have a chance of wiping it out. That means you have to be within 12" of the target....which means you have to be in charge range that round and guaranteed charge range the next round.

[Ravenfeld]

Tactical Terminators seem to be the thing for you, then. If you're picking any marine codex (seeing as you mention SW), then maybe deathwing termies with assault cannon and/or cyclone missile launcher might fit the bill? 

 

So you're thinking as a small allied contingent? It could work, or I could just use Wolf Guard. Although part of me wants to make my TDA assaulty and in a crusader....

 

 

I have never found flamers to be counter productive. If you get close to something you want to flame then they are helpful. If you get charged you can use it for wall of death. Like it or not C:SM tactical squads still suck if they are charged by an actual melee specialist unit. So the more lethal you can make that over watch firing the better. The best odds of getting wounds is that flamer.

 

This is also important cause your gonna get charged by melee specialist units if your a foot slogging army. The simple math is you need lots of dice with a 10 man squad to even have a chance of wiping it out. That means you have to be within 12" of the target....which means you have to be in charge range that round and guaranteed charge range the next round.

 

That is a pretty solid point, two flamers provides some guaranteed hits on charging enemies and, being Grey Hunters as they will be, I will get counter-attack and be able to sword and pistol once close combat is engaged. I definitely want to make it a force that lacks a great deal of technology, I am even considering shifting away from vehicles at large and just getting bodies bodies bodies.

[Jaigo]

Getting some power for suits and or vehicle can ofc be introduced.

Like have an plant that is protected at all cost have a generator.

That generator each day produces enough to maintain the revered suits and vehicles.

 

The use of scouts would seem justified as wearing a suit is an honour.

 

Threats to the plant source make for nice skirmishes as it could use running water or heat or chemicals to produce the power.

[High Marshall ulrick]

I believe the storm eagle is mentioned in the Horus heresy books as a heresy era support flier therefore an army cut off from the imperium for such a long time would venerate and almost obsessively maintain such a valuable asset.