Void Wraiths

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

yes so far the biggest issue i face in my writing will be how to get around the geneseed tithes without bringing down the Inquisition on my ass...at least not yet anyway

[Messor]

Tithes, I believe, are the easiest of responsibilities for a Chapter to shirk, even more so for a fleet based Chapter. The imperium doesn't have a lot of time or energy for tracking Chapters and demanding tithes. It's not the sort of thing you email the admech about saying "Stick it," but I think they can afford to ignore each other.

[Shinzaren]

Tithes, I believe, are the easiest of responsibilities for a Chapter to shirk, even more so for a fleet based Chapter. The imperium doesn't have a lot of time or energy for tracking Chapters and demanding tithes. It's not the sort of thing you email the admech about saying "Stick it," but I think they can afford to ignore each other.

That would work for awhile, but eventually Mars will get curious if you don't turn in any tithes at all. It's a short-term solution, since eventually you will be required to tithe. At least that is how I would see that. Tithes are mandatory but Mars is way behind and backlogged and a million other things, but eventually they will realize you haven't tithed in 3000 years and get a little curious.

 

EDIT: Plus he states that the Inquisition is already on his case and watching his every move. They would definitely be required to tithe, as the Inquisition is already suspicious of them. If they were any other run of the mill Chapter than they would be ok, but since they are already under suspicion and being tested thoroughly, their gene-seed tithes would not be something they'd be allowed to shirk.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Shinzaren

[Messor]

Hm, probably. How the Chapter operates might also influence that. With no intel, or communications, it's a question of whether Mars declares them lost or traitor(if they have that authority), depending on their mood. Failing that, yeah, it could probably get them through a few millennia. Edited April 5, 2013 by Messor

[Raven Angel]

Point of order Astartes do use battleships and any other warship class they want. They normally "convert" them to battle barges and strike cruisers but they there is no standard pattern that all chapters follow.

 

Now I will admit that the gene tithe is a problem but the fact that they recruit from Mechanicum worlds provides within it's self a solution. A close but secret alliance with the mechanicum could provide a means by which the Inquisition would be denied access to their geneseed and their secrets kept. It would also provide you with ready access to those grubins the the mechanicum likes to keep to itself which would in and of itself in keeping with a clan theme. You see the Mechanicum is not technically part of the Imperium, they are allies of the Imperium. This is why they where able to keep their religion in an age when all other religions where ruthlessly exterminated. Having them as an allie would be powerful protection for even the most aborant chapter. All you would really need is archotech to bribe them with. A Gloriana Class Battleship is just the kind of tech I mean.

 

As far as antagonizing the Inquisition goes well the Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels have done this in their turn and in their own way. Baring open disloyalty or vast open mutation the Inquisition is limited in the actions it can take. Friction between the Astartes and the Inquisition though is not uncommon.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Raven Angel

[Shinzaren]

You need to chill man Point of order Astartes do use battleships and any other warship class they want. They normally "convert" them to battle barges and strike cruisers but they there is no standard pattern that all chapters follow.

Now I will admit that the gene tithe is a problem but the fact that they recruit from Mechanicum worlds provides within it's self a solution. A close but secret alliance with the mechanicum could provide a means by which the Inquisition would be denied access to their geneseed and their secrets kept. It would also provide you with ready access to those grubins the the mechanicum likes to keep to itself which would in and of itself in keeping with a clan theme. As far as antagonizing the Inquisition goes well the Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels have done this in their turn and in their own way. Baring open disloyalty or vast open mutation the Inquisition is limited in the actions it can take. Friction between the Astartes and the Inquisition though is not uncommon.

Actually, the Space Marine chapters are limited in their ability to use Battleships, as dictated by the divisions of power in the Codex. This keeps any one chapter from every posing the threat that the Legions did, which is the same reason they cannot command and raise Guard battalions.

 

Also, the chapters you use as reference in upsetting the Inquisition are all First Founding chapters with huge amounts of sway in the Imperium. Their history and their alliances and brotherhoods go back 10k+ years, so they get a little more leeway than the average chapter. Plus, trying to bring war to a first founding chapter would require more influence than any one or group of Inquisitors possess. Other chapters don't have nearly that level of influence and prestige and are much more subject to the scrutiny of the Inquisition.

 

EDIT: All that aside, you raise a good plan with the secret Mechanicum alliance. That could definitely patch some holes in the idea of denying info the Inquisition, but it doesn't work if the Void Wraiths want to hide their secrets from the AdMech as well. If not, it could totally work.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Shinzaren

[Raven Angel]

The dictates of the Codex only hold sway if the chapter chooses to fallow its dictates. Not even the High Lords can force absolute compliance, especially in the face of stalwart service to the Imperium. After thousands of years a chapters rolls of honor can eclipse any number of precised transgressions.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

to recent posters -  each of you has brought up very useful arguments and points as well as some interesting suggestions.  you given me good start at addressing the problem of the tithes.  I am particularly interested in modifying Raven Angel's idea for get around it.  However, I am interested in how long you guys think a Chapter under Inquisitorial ire would be able to hold out without any tithes.

 

Additionally, i see i need to clarify where the Chapter has gotten much of its non-sm-exclusive naval ships.  i think i will have to reveal more about the Chapter origins sooner than planned.  Perhaps i can conceal it to some degree through hints instead of blatant info.  My plan is basically to withhold the true origins and geneseed of the Chapter until the time is right.  The problem is how to hint at it without revealing too much or bringing down the Inquisitorial hammer on me.

 

Thanks and looking forward to your thoughts

[Raven Angel]

Well that the thing the Mechanicum, not the Inquisition handles accounting of the tithe. They can tell the Inquisition "every things fine here they are all paid up. What do you mean you don't believe us and want to see. Sod off this is Mechanicum  and Astartes business. Go make yourself useful and burn some real heretics. We will call you if we have a problem." The Inquisition can think what ever it want but if the Mechanicum doesn't cooperate they can't prove squat. And without some real evidence they will never get sanction to move against a chapter.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

hmm i didnt realize the Mechanicum had that much power in regards to the Inquisition.  definitely helps my chapter

[Raven Angel]

The Mechanicum holds one of the permanent places on the Council of High Lords on Terra. Both the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy move on and off the council as their power waxes and wanes. It is one of the benefits of having been around at the founding of the Imperium.

[corlinjewell]

The Mechanicum holds one of the permanent places on the Council of High Lords on Terra. Both the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy move on and off the council as their power waxes and wanes. It is one of the benefits of having been around at the founding of the Imperium.

 

Actually, pg 403 of the BRB says that all three of these organizations hold permanent seats, just saying  .

[Ecritter]

 I hate the new editor

Edited April 6, 2013 by Ecritter

[Gripharius]

I think Raven Angel has the best solution. As long as you have even a minor alliance with the AdMech so they won't report any problems to the Inquisition, you'd probably be fine, even if an Inquisitor came sniffing around.

 

Your guys could just put a couple of Space Marine spleens in stasis tubes with the AdMech's post office address on it and let the Inquisitor watch you put it into the old Imperial mail chute... As long as the AdMech says its cool, looks good to them, how would the Inquisitor really know any different? Lol

[Ecritter]

messed up editor or not, I really feel I should point out yet again ... The Inquisition has NOTHING to do with Geneseed Tithes.  If the AdMech feels the need to press a Chapter for Tithes, they have their Legions (yeah they still have Legions), their Fleet (better then even the Imperial Navy), and can call on Adeptus Astartes, Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy assets if they feel the need.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

ok then will use a modified version of Raven's idea to settle the tithes issue.  that will probs be all for the geneseed info right now, as i dont want to reveal much more about that just yet.  i will try to work on the info for where they are getting their war material.  however, does anyone have a more detailed description of a knight world other than: that they similar to feudal worlds but due to AdMech support, they are more advanced?  perhaps from a book  or something?

 

thanks

 

also, i now added a new section and the tithe stuff. id like to add more about the relationship with the AdMech in relation to the knight worlds so im looking forward to any new info in regard to my question above

Edited April 6, 2013 by The Lord Marshal

[Ecritter]

I have several questions about the rewrites.

 

- Unknown Origin.  What does this add to the Chapter?

 

- Problems with the Inquisition.  Does this add anything, or will it, cause I'm not seeing how it adds to the IA at this time?

 

- Unknown number of Marines.  Is it your goal to make a Black Templar type Chapter by using this, if not what is the reason and is it really necessary?

 

- Non-Space Marine Ships.  Whats the purpose in having Imperial Navy only ships, does it really add anything to the Chapter or IA?

 

- Regard for Knowledge.  What is this adding to the Chapter concept?

 

- Unknown Geneseed.  Why is this so important and what does it really add if anything?

 

- AdMech Allies.  What's in it for them, they're not gonna turn their backs for nothing and you've yet to show any real reason for them doing this for you?

 

- Recruitment.  Why would the AdMech allow you to recruit from these worlds?  It's breaking the treaty they have with the Imperium, and you're not giving us any reason for them doing so.

 

- You do know we're not the Inquisition right?  Why are you being so closed lipped about giving us details so we can give advice?  Do you think it gives you some great power to withhold information?

[Raven Angel]

Ecritter you need to stop trolling man. This is The Lord Marshal's story; let him tell it his way. You are just going to have to wait for some of these detail like the rest of us.

[Ecritter]

Ecritter you need to stop trolling man. This is The Lord Marshal's story; let him tell it his way. You are just going to have to wait for some of these detail like the rest of us.

Giving feedback and asking questions are not trolling (and that offends me), its what we do here to help players build new chapters.

[Brother Tyler]

Drafting threads appear here all the time, and we always tell the writer what is wrong and what is right with their thoughts.  Please do read the link I suggested, it will help alot.

Here's what should have been posted:

 

Drafting threads appear here all the time, and we always tell the writer what we think is wrong and what we think is right with their thoughts. Please do read the link I suggested, it will help alot (just keep in mind that it is subjective and not in any way binding, and it definitely has its faults so don't take it as gospel or anything).

 

Now all of the better clarifying information added in orange, let's all play nice. Constructive feedback is all and well (and is part and parcel of what we do here in the Liber Astartes forum), but there are lots of different viewpoints on what is and is not possible in the game universe. More importantly, players may "violate" what others consider to be "accepted canon" if they desire. Suggestions are okay, but if the author presses on, others need to relent in order to avoid being disruptive in someone else's creative process.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

 

Ecritter you need to stop trolling man. This is The Lord Marshal's story; let him tell it his way. You are just going to have to wait for some of these detail like the rest of us.

Giving feedback and asking questions are not trolling (and that offends me), its what we do here to help players build new chapters.

 

on the contrary you have not provided any useful feedback and not been respectful.  For example many of the questions in your latest post were either answered in other comments or were given a reason why they will not be answered yet.  and some of these questions were just pointless, which is what one would refer to as trolling.

 

Also, thank you for reminding everyone of those important points Brother Tyler.  also look forward to reading any thoughts you might have on my chapter.

Edited April 8, 2013 by The Lord Marshal

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

on a brighter note, since there has not been any responses to my question regarding knight worlds, i am assuming that the basic, vague info on those worlds that i have is same info everyone else has.  so i will try and write a bit on that and the source of war material some time today.  if anyone sees something that conflicts with info they know or has more info on knight worlds but has not posted it etc. please let me know.

 

also, it seems that some of the coding got screwed up over night... ill fix that

 

thanks

Edited April 8, 2013 by The Lord Marshal

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

ok iv added info on the knight worlds and revamped the recruitment section.  iv also added to the combat doctrine with a specialist formation that just came to me.  let me know what your think of the Wraith Squadrons.  i dont know why the font sizes are not the same cuz the entire page is set to size 14.

Edited April 8, 2013 by The Lord Marshal

[Octavulg]

Before I launch into this - ecritter has asked reasonable questions in a fairly reasonable fashion. Your response has, as far as I can see, been to claim you don't need to answer them and he should figure the answers out so he can help you properly. That's not on.

 

People asking questions is a part of criticism. All of his questions have been fair and quite reasonable. He's not trolling, and the fact that you don't seem to want to answer them suggests you need to either think more about what you're writing or realize that keeping what you want secret from the people trying to help you doesn't make you cleverer than them.

 

Explaining what you want makes it possible to help you. Refusing to do so makes it impossible.

 

I think I dealt with the stuff you edited in since I started writing.

Void Wraiths

The name doesn't seem to have much to do with the whole Clan theme. Something with "Star" or "Exiles" in it would seem better suited.

Founding: Unknown

 

Progenitor Legion: Unknown

 

Known Descendants: None/Unknown

 

Allegiance: Unknown/Loyalist?

As ecritter said, what does having all this be unknown add? What are you trying to do that makes this necessary?

The Chapter's origins are completely unknown to the Imperium. They appeared out of nowhere and there were no records of them. The Inquisition demanded they prove their loyalty before being accepted into the Adeptus Astartes, which they have done with particular ferocity for their entire recorded existence.

There's at least one founding where there are no records, and there's still others where records are fragmentary or not universally available. A chapter without records is completely unsurprising.

 

Plus, that's not really up to the Inquisition. If your chapter runs around killing the enemies of the Imperium, how is the Inquisition really going to stop them?

Additionally, the true numbers of marines and inner works of the Chapter have never been revealed.

Which would seem the sort of thing the Inquisition would ask about almost immediately if they were feeling all investigatory.

The Chapter does use many non-Codex formations and organizational practices, leading many to believe that they do not adhere to the Codex.

That's kind of the definition of not adhering to the Codex...

And the records of the Chapter and marines themselves have not proved particularly helpful. The Inquisition is thus reluctant to clear them as they cannot help but wonder why this information is absent or why its seems that the marines are hiding something.

So they don't know how the chapter works or how many marines there are, but they have the records...

 

What?

Organization

This isn't interesting. Much is standard, and what isn't is not inherently interesting in its own right. This stuff is interesting because of what it tells us about the chapter and its importance to the chapter. Without any actual character, it's just numbers and allocations.

 

Plus, lists are (as a rule) boring to read. This is a list that doesn't even matter, because it's a list about a chapter that doesn't have anything interesting going on yet at this point in the IA.

 

Also, looking at the organization - the Clans are an elite force which use small units and make up the difference through lots and lots of training and coordinated breeding programs. You've gone for weight of numbers. Why? If anything, a smaller than standard force would seem more appropriate.

 

Wraith Squadrons don't really add much, IMO. They're just...there.

Flax Ilia ("Jade Falcon") a Retribution class battleship

 

BFGRetributionBattleship.jpg

Bellator ("Warrior"), a Oberon class battleship

Space Marine chapters rarely or never have battleships, for the reasons previously discussed by several different people. They certainly wouldn't have this many.

 

Nor would they have shiny new models of Imperial navy cruiser (the Mars is both fairly new and relatively rare, for one).

The Void Wraiths have become known for ferocious, surgical strikes from the shadows. They appear out of nowhere in the blink of an eye and disappear without a trace as soon as the enemy is defeated. However, they have also shown themselves to be masters of siege and defensive warfare. Their skill in concealing their movements is compared by some to the descendants of the Raven Guard while their mastery of siege warfare is compared to the likes of the Imperial Fists' successors. Thus, the Void Wraiths have proved to be a horrifically deadly military force.

So they're good at sieges and at fast strikes. Two skillsets that are, in many ways, diametrically opposed.

 

Either write it so the two mesh with each other, or don't do it. Right now, it feels like you're trying to have your chapter be awesome at everything.

Noticeably, they make no use of attack bikes, instead the Chapter relies on land speeders and assault marines for fast attack. They have also shown a preference for using vast armored support for their troops.

The first is boring and gives no insight of consequence. The second is inconsistent with sieges AND with fast, surgical sneaky strikes.

The Chapter is known for its great regard for knowledge and taking great risk to acquire or preserve knowledge. In fact, the Chapter's regard for knowledge is almost as extreme as the Blood Ravens, which of course has raise questions about the Chapters and their relationship. It is known that it possesses large amounts of ancient and arcane texts and technology, the most obvious being its Gloriana class battleship.

Which is why their records are so shoddy...

 

The Inquisition is not this stupid. If they're investigating your chapter, and your chapter claims to not have complete records but is known for their preservation of knowledge, that will raise a LOT of red flags.

It is known that the chapter seeks to work with the Dark Angels and White Scars on developing a larger version of the Land Speeder designed for troop transport in small strike force operations. They also are actively seeking data on ancient Great Crusade era super tanks for the development of their own versions.

Oh, and you're rubbing shoulders with First Founding chapters. This makes it seem like you're trying to make your chapter important by associating them with established figures in the universe.

 

Modern space Marine chapters don't seem to use super tanks. The most obvious explanation is that the Codex is supposed to prevent exactly that sort of thing (same reason they don't have battleships). That sort of thing would draw lots of Inquisitorial scrutiny and possibly Inquisitorial action.

The Chapter refuses the Imperium access to its geneseed in anyway and claims its geneseed tithes have been paid. Unknown to the Imperium, the Chapter has a secret alliance with the Adeptus Mechanicus which provides them with some protection from the inquiry of other departments of the Adeptus Terra ,including the Inquisition. The AdMech allows the Chapter to refrain from sending geneseed tithes and informs the rest of the Imperium that the tithes are paid. Additionally, the AdMech's exclusive access to geneseed prevents other departments, namely the Inquisition from checking the geneseed or the tithes. In return, the Chapter allows the AdMech access to the vast amounts of knowledge and archotech (including parts of their Gloriana class battleship) collected by the Chapter, and assists its explorator fleets. As such, nothing is known of its geneseed.

Yeah...this is not the great idea Raven Angel thinks it is. Rather the opposite.

 

First of all, why would the Adeptus Mechanicus not simply wait for you to refuse tithes, then crush you like a bug and take your stuff? Way less risky for them.

 

Second, your chapter having all this shiny stuff feels like a cheap attempt to make them special. Stuff is not a substitute for character.

 

Third, this relationship might work for a while. Why would it work long term? Sooner or later, your boys will run out of shinies to share.

 

Fourth, the geneseed tithes are very important. They're what proves your chapter isn't genetically degenerated Chaos spawn. That's a big deal. The Ad Mech might like shiny stuff, but sooner or later they'd want some confirmation your boys aren't evil.

 

Fifth, geneseed source is unable to be identified all the time, and there's a founding with no geneseed records. There's really no need for all this complication - your chapter could just claim to be part of the Dark Founding.

The Chapter recruits from the techno-clan based peoples of several Knight worlds, which are all Forbidden worlds at present. These clans interact regularly and are well aware of the Astartes. The ultimate goal of every young clansman is to be selected to become an Astartes. The Chapter recruits from all the clans. Each Marine in the Chapter holds on to his lineage to a clan. Brother Marines of the same clan share the traditions and brotherhood of their lineage, but they also share the combined and ultimate brotherhood between all clanners that is the Chapter. Each Marine bares a small version of their clan badge on their armor, often on the knee. Furthermore, there is a Clan Council which operates outside of the chapter hierarchy and acts as a interclan forum for the marines of the chapter. Here each clan is represented by a ilKhan, literally a clan representative, who is often a Dreadnought. The Clan Council speaks on a variety of clan matters within the Chapter and helps to solidify the bond of brotherhood and equality in the Chapter.

Knight Worlds are the domain of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Your chapter would have no right to recruit there.

 

The Clan ranks may work in Battletech, but I don't think they work well here (certainly not Ilkhan). There's already other assocations with "Khan", anyway.

 

Also, the elected Ilkhan in Battletech is a lot more interesting than yet another clan council.

Chapter Color Scheme

So you took the exciting and diverse color schemes of the Clans and their diverse symbols, and used them to make...another chapter with black armor.

 

The Clans have diverse color schemes and symbols. Reducing that to a little spot on a knee is just a waste.

 

* * *

 

I have the depressing suspicion that your guys are either the loyalist remnants of the various traitor Legions or a secret mission sent away by several Primarchs and now returning to the Imperium.

 

What are your objectives here? What do you want?

Edited April 8, 2013 by Octavulg

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

i am not going explain everything to you. much of your questions are already answered in previous posts.  i found 3 important points to clarify in my writing, so thank you for those.  but otherwise you have a deep misunderstanding of many things with the chapter. if i were type a full response to this, it would be several pages long. quite frankly i dont have time for that.  many of the other posters can help clarify things for you.