Disease Ridden & Loving it!

[Ravenfeld]

Hey Guys,

 

Having just rekindled my passion for Papa Nurgle after a long hiatus and revamping my Death Guard army for 6th ed I couldn't help but get that inkling desire to include some daemons and, knowing myself, I will likely turn any "allied daemon" force into a full fledged 2k army in time. So, that being said I want to know if you fellows have any advice on how to best engineer a mono-nurgle force? I intend to get Skabathrax to be my armies center piece eventually, but don't worry about his 777 points, I will worry about that later, haha!

 

So, how to make a fluffy, effective nurgle list of daemonic goodness?

 

For more specifics:

 

HQ:

Kugath worth it?

Epidemus still viable?

The GUO is best with Biomancy yes?

How do you fix up your Heralds?

Palaquins worthwhile?

 

Troops:

Are Nurglings better now? Even just as deep striking harassment / tarpit units?

Do Bearers ever get a chance to rust a vehicle to death? How often does this come up?

 

Elites:
Are Beasts actually viable now? I love the idea of counter-charging!

 

Fast Attack:

Plague Drones, what are your thoughts on our newest unit? They look appealing, plague jet packing bearers just sounds fun!

 

Heavy Support:

Daemon Princes, how do you tool them out? Do you make them Psykers? If so which power set?

Soulgrinders for Anti-Air or Anti-Vehicle?

 

Forgeworld:

Blight Drones, anyone have any experience with these fellas? I love the model.

Plague Hulk, same line of questioning. Would this guy be good enough to replace a Soul Grinder or DP? Could always just use it as a Nurgle SG as well I suppose.

 

As you can see I need insight into nearly every facet of the army, I have never actually played with daemons in any form, though I've always been interested! Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[Black_Crusader]

Kugath is very durable and effective as fire base, defensive role

Epidemius should be used with special build arround him but i haven't figure out how to use him yet.

GUO with biomancy is awesome!!! if you go nurgle never leave without him unless you take Kugath for his build

I have seen people putting them on palaquins and with etherblade/biomancy can be killier than a GUO and even more durable because of bodyguards, but they cost way to much like this. I play them cheap support, 2 lvls for biomancy or plague, etherblade and locus for feel no pain with a 20 man plaguebearer unit.

No opinion for nurglings as i don't play them.

I don't see why they shouldn't. I mean it is almost the same as with necrons, if a vehicle is within charge range you rust it. Maybe the fewer vehicles in the edition have an effect on this.

Beasts are great if you can affort to buy them in numbers

If i am not mistaken Blight drones are fast attack so if you are willing to take those Forgeworld flyiers then maybe they can fill your fast attack nicely.

Plague drones are very nice and versatyle, In a pure nurgle list one unit to hold a banner and survive close to the enemy lines is very important.

Soulgrinders are good anti air against low AV flyiers. Against bigger ones it may be best to avoid them. (unless you can spam the auto cannons, 3 blightdrones and 3 soulgrinders can get 15 bs3 str7 shoots on flyiers per turn, not bad i think)

For the daemon prince i would rather have him without powers because rewards are safer random roles than powers and if you put both on them they will get way to expensive to be worth it.

All in all, IMO there are many ways to make an effective nurgle only list with no clear this is better than that but everything can work out.

That is all i can think for now hope it helps.

[Ravenfeld]

Kugath is very durable and effective as fire base, defensive role

 

So you would keep this fellow back field to toss nurglings at people? Isn't his range rather limited? Also I hear he isn't at all good at dealing with vehicles, so he primarily falls into a anti-infantry role, right?

 

Epidemius should be used with special build around him but i haven't figure out how to use him yet.

 

This has always been the case more or less, in this edition I believe he buffs anything nurgley, so can even be used with Death Guard in CSM lists. I am just curious if anyone makes use of him this edition, since he was very popular in 5th.

 

GUO with biomancy is awesome!!! if you go nurgle never leave without him unless you take Kugath for his build

 

I have every intention of using a GUO, one day I may even try both a GUO and Kugath, major point investment, but this is coming from the guy who wants to use Skabathrax.

 

I have seen people putting them on palaquins and with etherblade/biomancy can be killier than a GUO and even more durable because of bodyguards, but they cost way to much like this. I play them cheap support, 2 lvls for biomancy or plague, etherblade and locus for feel no pain with a 20 man plaguebearer unit.

 

Wow, a herald that is beefier than a GUO, well its nice to have the option, although I can see the appeal of keeping these guys on the cheaper end. If you wanna dump points may as well go greater daemon, right?

 

No opinion for nurglings as i don't play them.

 

That's a shame, I really would like to know what the consensus is on these now. I know swarms aren't generally super popular, but I've always loved the little guys and would like to use them outside of decorating bases.

 

I don't see why they shouldn't. I mean it is almost the same as with necrons, if a vehicle is within charge range you rust it. Maybe the fewer vehicles in the edition have an effect on this.

 

I like the idea of charging a transport and cutting it open with rusty blades, I mean glancing things to death is a pretty common occurrence this edition as is!

 

Beasts are great if you can affort to buy them in numbers<_<

 

Yeah I can imagine we will need to wait to get plastic kits, but then again you could just convert some spawn and get the same effect really.. could even use a mass of greenstuff with boils and tentacles and call it a beast of nurgle, really. In fact, I think I want to make some sluggy snail beasties.

 

If i am not mistaken Blight drones are fast attack so if you are willing to take those Forgeworld flyiers then maybe they can fill your fast attack nicely.

 

I definitely would like to, I love the models! Just don't know enough about how they perform in this edition to invest the money, would like some insight before I take the plunge.

 

Plague drones are very nice and versatyle, In a pure nurgle list one unit to hold a banner and survive close to the enemy lines is very important.

 

Why is that? How do you use these fellows? I am very curious as to their best tactical application.

 

Soulgrinders are good anti air against low AV flyiers. Against bigger ones it may be best to avoid them. (unless you can spam the auto cannons, 3 blightdrones and 3 soulgrinders can get 15 bs3 str7 shoots on flyiers per turn, not bad i think)

 

That isn't bad, not the best by any stretch, but decent. Aside from anti-air is there any reason to field Soul Grinders?

 

For the daemon prince i would rather have him without powers because rewards are safer random roles than powers and if you put both on them they will get way to expensive to be worth it.

 

He can get expensive quick, but wouldn't tossing a single level on him be good, if not for some versatility? Potential support spells or offensive abilities at range?

 

All in all, IMO there are many ways to make an effective nurgle only list with no clear this is better than that but everything can work out.

That is all i can think for now hope it helps.

 

Thanks for the insight! Appreciate you taking the time.

[Black_Crusader]

 

Kugath is very durable and effective as fire base, defensive role

 

So you would keep this fellow back field to toss nurglings at people? Isn't his range rather limited? Also I hear he isn't at all good at dealing with vehicles, so he primarily falls into a anti-infantry role, right?

I think moving from cover to cover at midfield shooting infantry and generally being a tough support centerpiece. Haven't used him yet though, just giving an idea.

 

Epidemius should be used with special build around him but i haven't figure out how to use him yet.

 

This has always been the case more or less, in this edition I believe he buffs anything nurgley, so can even be used with Death Guard in CSM lists. I am just curious if anyone makes use of him this edition, since he was very popular in 5th.

Epidemius buffs daemons of nurgle and only increase the tally by daemon killing, so he does not have big effect on death guard.

 

GUO with biomancy is awesome!!! if you go nurgle never leave without him unless you take Kugath for his build

 

I have every intention of using a GUO, one day I may even try both a GUO and Kugath, major point investment, but this is coming from the guy who wants to use Skabathrax.

 

>I have seen people putting them on palaquins and with etherblade/biomancy can be killier than a GUO and even more durable because of bodyguards, but they cost way to much like this. I play them cheap support, 2 lvls for biomancy or plague, etherblade and locus for feel no pain with a 20 man plaguebearer unit.

 

Wow, a herald that is beefier than a GUO, well its nice to have the option, although I can see the appeal of keeping these guys on the cheaper end. If you wanna dump points may as well go greater daemon, right?

Usually, plaguebearers are used to take objectives and not move against the enemy because they can be avoided/shoot out of cover. So unless someone is planning to deep strike a big unit of plaguebearers with a herald close to enemy lines he risk having an expensive herald doing next to nothing. And that tactic has risks of its own since the turn they arrive they are vulnerable espesially against blast weapons.

 

No opinion for nurglings as i don't play them.

 

That's a shame, I really would like to know what the consensus is on these now. I know swarms aren't generally super popular, but I've always loved the little guys and would like to use them outside of decorating bases.

 

>I don't see why they shouldn't. I mean it is almost the same as with necrons, if a vehicle is within charge range you rust it. Maybe the fewer vehicles in the edition have an effect on this.

 

I like the idea of charging a transport and cutting it open with rusty blades, I mean glancing things to death is a pretty common occurrence this edition as is!

 

Beasts are great if you can affort to buy them in numbers<_<

 

Yeah I can imagine we will need to wait to get plastic kits, but then again you could just convert some spawn and get the same effect really.. could even use a mass of greenstuff with boils and tentacles and call it a beast of nurgle, really. In fact, I think I want to make some sluggy snail beasties.

 

If i am not mistaken Blight drones are fast attack so if you are willing to take those Forgeworld flyiers then maybe they can fill your fast attack nicely.

 

I definitely would like to, I love the models! Just don't know enough about how they perform in this edition to invest the money, would like some insight before I take the plunge.

I haven't seen them in action this edition but for such a cheap flyier they must be really strong. It is a flyer with a battlecannon (not exactly but close) a flamer and an autocannon.

 

Plague drones are very nice and versatyle, In a pure nurgle list one unit to hold a banner and survive close to the enemy lines is very important.

 

Why is that? How do you use these fellows? I am very curious as to their best tactical application.

They are simply very durable with srouding/ 5 toughness/ 3 wounds. Combined with their speed and any gunline type army will have a lot of trouble. They can also take an icon to deep strike safely slow moving nurgle stuff closer to your enemy. Like a GUO for example. They can also put their rust swords to even better use than the plaguebearers since their speed allows them to get to enemy tanks that much easier.

 

Soulgrinders are good anti air against low AV flyiers. Against bigger ones it may be best to avoid them. (unless you can spam the auto cannons, 3 blightdrones and 3 soulgrinders can get 15 bs3 str7 shoots on flyiers per turn, not bad i think)

 

That isn't bad, not the best by any stretch, but decent. Aside from anti-air is there any reason to field Soul Grinders?

Plenty. When not firing at flyiers a nurgle grinder with phelgm can be an unkillable battlecannon (stick him behind a ruin and you got an AV13 2+cover vehicle that can smash a lot of things if try to close in on it) This soulgrinder is more of the defensive type though, since you want to stay in cover and can't run or consolidate.

 

For the daemon prince i would rather have him without powers because rewards are safer random roles than powers and if you put both on them they will get way to expensive to be worth it.

 

He can get expensive quick, but wouldn't tossing a single level on him be good, if not for some versatility? Potential support spells or offensive abilities at range?

If you take the greater rewards (you probably should) you already look at a toughness 5 monster that is worth 260 points. It is already on the edge so putting anything more might not be a good idea, unless of course you feel lucky and believe you can get iron arm from biomancy for example. That will certainly be nice.

[Excretos]

In relation to your question about Nurglings, sadly I would say they are pretty terrible now (which is a shame as I love the wee buggers!). The lack of Eternal Warrior means they can be instant killed pretty quickly; the fact they are swarms mean that they can't take objectives, challenge objectives or even get you linebreaker; and the lack of anything like poison means that although they can put out a decent number of attacks on the charge, they are unlikely to kill anything, leaving them likely to get wiped by instability. So sadly, from my experience, nope they aren't worth it, other than from a fluffy perspective.

Or because you love them, which at the end of the day is a valid reason to take any model!

[Ravenfeld]

In relation to your question about Nurglings, sadly I would say they are pretty terrible now (which is a shame as I love the wee buggers!). The lack of Eternal Warrior means they can be instant killed pretty quickly; the fact they are swarms mean that they can't take objectives, challenge objectives or even get you linebreaker; and the lack of anything like poison means that although they can put out a decent number of attacks on the charge, they are unlikely to kill anything, leaving them likely to get wiped by instability. So sadly, from my experience, nope they aren't worth it, other than from a fluffy perspective.

Or because you love them, which at the end of the day is a valid reason to take any model!

The fact that they can't even net you line breaker is silly.. and I suppose wasting biomancy spells on them would be kinda goofy too, although the idea of iron armed nurglings makes me smile. I figure if they join in a multi-charge to soak up wounds, screen the advance of your other forces, or deep strike in behind some soft targets and begin causing mayham. I think it would come down to your enemy, because a "pod" of nurglings assaulting some backfield heavy weapons teams, or tau could at the very least save the rest of your force from some shooting for a few turns. As a throw-away unit that is both fluffy and fun it could work, but individually I would think they would lack the punch of their larger siblings... eh, suppose we'll see if I can scrounge up some extra points for 'em.

Thanks!

[Ravenfeld]

So then how would you guys build a 1999+1 Mono Nurgle list? Would you recommend allying in some Death Guard to fill some of the gaps?

[Black_Crusader]

I believe you can make a good list from chaos daemons alone.

I am thinking something like:

 

GUO, 2 greaterR lvl3

2x heralds, lvl2 FnP locus greaterR

 

2x 20plaguebearers, icon, banner, plagueridden with lesserR (with the heralds)

10plaguebearers, instrument (for reserves)

 

5plaguedrones, icon, banner (or proboscis depends on what you think is best), plaguebringer with lesserR

 

2x soulgrinders, phlegm

Daemon prince, wings, armour, 2greaterR

 

Not the perfect list by a long shoot but might do well.

The idea is to have GUO in reserve and everything else on the field.

Plaguedrones move forward with the prince hiding for a turn. Turn2 GUO arrives (with the instrument unit you practically have 3+ with reroll to get him turn2)

So you got Plaguedrones, GUO and Prince next to your enemy by turn 2. Heralds take midle field and support with Biomancy or plague. Small unit camps home objective and grinders generally shoot stuff.

 

I don't know point costs for blight drones but if they are available put them in. Probably instead of the Daemon Prince and let the GUO do the heavy lifting of assaults.

[Excretos]

Decent list.  One question though would be whether it is worth putting Psychic onto the DP?  I ran a LV3 DP this week for the first time and he was digustingly good.  I got Miasma of Pestilence from Plague, and Iron Arm and Enfeeblement from Biomancy, which allowed him to eat through a full squad of Deathwing Knights, a full squad of Ravenwing bikers and a Scout squad for the grand loss of one wound.  It is expensive, but as a killing machine he is amazing, offering that squad chewer which is otherwise lacking in the list?

 

If the cost hit the troops size you could always give one of the Heralds a portglyph from the Exalted Rewards and summon in extra Plaguebearers as required?

[Ravenfeld]

I would definitely put powers on the DP if I had the points to do it! I have a DP model that I've been dying to use so the more killy I can make it the better!

[Ravenfeld]

Also, could we fit in Nurglings & Beasts in there? How many points was that list?

[Black_Crusader]

2000 points

The idea for this list is to have lots of durable troops slowly moving towards objectives/enemy while a fast + reserve unit takes a flank or center spot in the enemy line.

 

A different idea could be: Drop 1 Herald and make one of the 2 big squads like the small one (with ridden and lesser reward instead of instroment).

Change the greater reward on the herald for lesser and drop one plaguedrone.

The above gives you the points for 6 beasts of Nurgle.

 

Now you get a lot more speed to deal with more shooting opponents but your troops are less durable.

 

If plaguedrones are available i would prefer them instead of the beasts.

 

Nurglings could replace a small blaguebearer squad to infiltrate and try to tie up a unit ASAP. But not anything more than that.

[heron]

Blight Drones are really really good. You can run up to three per FA slot. Without giving away exact point costs, two of them costs a little less than KuGath.

Basically they have the same armaments as a PhlegmGrinder, stuck onto a flyer, rather than a walker. I use two in my list, standard. With 4 Plague Drones as well.

[Excretos]

The Blight Drones do sound rather amazing - are the rules in one of the IA books?

[Fibonacci]

Nevermind. I was thinking plaguedrones.

[Ravenfeld]

So from what I've been reading about Beasts is that they are actually well worth their point investment. With their move through cover, shroud, fleet, slime, and counter-charge they are just a nightmare in the assault phase whether on the defensive or offensive, are hard to put down by shooting because of their insane cover-save, toughness and wounds, and are surprisingly fast for a Nurgle unit due to their being beasts. That coupled with their D6+1 attack that are poisoned they can pack a surprising punch as well! I think I need to have 3 of these in my force at the very least, they sound too fun to pass up!

[heron]

The Blight Drones do sound rather amazing - are the rules in one of the IA books?

They are in the Imperial Armor Aeronautica book. You can use them with Chaos Space Marines in lists that have at least one unit of Death Guard.

[Kol Saresk]

Death Guard or Plague Marines out of curiosity?

[Ravenfeld]

Death Guard or Plague Marines out of curiosity?

 

Same thing, but he meant Plague Marines :D

[heron]

Death Guard or Plague Marines out of curiosity?

Same thing, but he meant Plague Marines

Sorry- I should answer more carefully!

[Makers]

1. Mono-Nurgle is fun.

2. Against and experienced player, you will most likely lose...alot so be prepared.

 

Kugath can be really good if played correctly, by using his range to soften up the enemy before your army assaults.

 

a Great Unclean One is amazing and nigh unkillable if he gets the rights Biomancy powers (note: for nurgle you should be rolling biomancy on any MC with psyker powers)

 

Heralds, in my opinion are a waste of the points they require to make them usable unless you are running one in a blob of Plaguebearers

 

Epidemius can be good if you surround him with a lot of nurglings or plaguebearers.

 

Plaguebearers are good...but SLOW, and have ZERO shooting. So you're going to want to build up their units to 15-20.

 

Drones are great at tar pitting things but will have difficulty killing things like walkers and other MC's

 

Nurgligs by themself are a waste and will die quickly. Use them more as a cheap shield unit to surround your bigger threats like Kugath and GUO to help them get into CC.

 

If you're running Mono-Nurgle, Soul Grinders and Princes are going to be your bread and butter.

Nurlge Soul Grinders with Phelgm can sit in area terrain for the 3++ cover save because of shrouded, or in a ruin for the 2++.

Princes with Wings, Rewards, and Psykers. These are the only thing you have besides drones that can move "quickly" and kill almost anything.

 

You're going to want to max your heavy slot. I recommend either 2 Princes and a Grinder, or 3 Princes.

 

You're weakness is the Slow and Purposeful. Anyone smart enough will kite you around the board, and just unload as many shots into you as possible. And thin you down to the point that it wont matter. I would DS in as much as possible and consider adding in some Icons. You want the Princes to last long enough until you can get the rest of your stuff into CC. Which is the biggest problem with Nurgle.

[Black_Crusader]

 

Heralds, in my opinion are a waste of the points they require to make them usable unless you are running one in a blob of Plaguebearers

If the second HQ slot is not used for Greater Daemon (or daemon prince if you take lots of grinders) then one Herald with the Feel no pain locus can be very useful in a 20 strong plaguebearer unit that takes the middle field

 

Drones are great at tar pitting things but will have difficulty killing things like walkers and other MC's

Point for point Drones can kill thinks fairly quick.

They won't do good against terminators except for tar pit but poison attacks kill MC's (maybe except for 2+ saves like the dreadknight)

Also any walker will be destroyed in a couple of turns against a good sized drone unit because of the glancing on 6+ rolls

 

You're going to want to max your heavy slot. I recommend either 2 Princes and a Grinder, or 3 Princes.

3 Princes will eat to many points and leave no room for shooting that can only come from grinders.

Best option IMO is 3 grinders and an HQ prince or 2 Grinders and a Prince

 

Putting lots of points in Fast attack is alos important either with Blight drones or Plague drones.

[Makers]

 

 

Drones are great at tar pitting things but will have difficulty killing things like walkers and other MC's

Point for point Drones can kill thinks fairly quick.

They won't do good against terminators except for tar pit but poison attacks kill MC's (maybe except for 2+ saves like the dreadknight)

Also any walker will be destroyed in a couple of turns against a good sized drone unit because of the glancing on 6+ rolls

 

 

Yea, no.

"Also any walker will be destroyed in a couple of turns against a good sized drone unit because of the glancing on 6+ rolls"

 

They wont last a couple of turns against walkers or Monstrous Creatures with S10 hits against them.

Drones don't have eternal warrior, so if they fail one save, its instant death, no matter how many wounds you have.

Also remember that they are I2, Which means almost ALL other walkers or MC's are going to be hitting first.

And because of the I2, they cannot make sweeping advances either.

 

If you do the math, on average, even with the poisoned weapons, your only going to kill on average about 2-3 Space marines on the change.

As with any Daemon unit, you should be avoiding Walkers or Other Monstrous creatures at all cost.

 

The only advantages of Drones is that they can take an Icon, and glance something like a Landraider down if you have enough of them, but for that you would need at least 5 of them, and that's over 200 Points.

 

If we are going "point for point" i would much rather have 15 Flesh Hounds than a few Plague Drones.

[Black_Crusader]

Against walkers with 2 base attacks or no dreadnaught weapon they can do well in a sizable unit (5 or 6) if you do the maths.

Against montrous creatures that get 3 smash attacks on average if they are equiped with the 2+poison banner or the instadeath attacks they can also win the fight.

I don't say it is an auto win but it is an equal fight that may be worth it if other options are not available.

Still, for the fast attack option the best choise for nurgle should be the flyier no question there. But if it is not available drones have obvious uses.

15 flesh hounds or 6 drones (5 if you take banner and upgrades)? I suppose it depends on how you use them and what you face. They are both equal choices in my opinion.

Obviously for nurgle we stick with the drones