elphilo Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 While we're on the subject of "making sense": how does it "make sense" that a flag can change the physical nature of a boltgun to make it more shooty? I'm not objecting to the rule, by the way, just pointing out the absurdity of claiming "but this doesn't make sense" when discussing the details of a fantasy wargame set 39,000 years into the future Hmmm good point. Here's my explanation http://i.imgur.com/d4eJ9xz.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I was gonna say MiRaClEs, but magic works too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkangeldentist Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Not a good update overall but the Ravenwing command squad was a nice surprise also interesting that even the extra guys work out cheaper than regular black knights. Despite the fact you can invest so many points in the extra toys like standards and apothecaries into the unit it still surprises me that the command squad is better value plain than regular black knights. I do fervently hope that they change the Deathwing entry back to allowing sergeant's to swap their weapons. It was fine up until now (in my experience) and certainly ok under the last book so I can only hope this was just another oversight. The change to the powerfield generator is a blow but isn't entirely unexpected simply because the bump in table presence was rather excessive. Glad that Asmodai got his pistol but it's still not enough to make me want to field over a regular interrogator currently. As for making sense? Don't bother, it's not worth it and they will just undo all your efforts next time an FAQ or codex comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwing70 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The sergeant in the DW squad was given free weapon options in the 4th Edition codex, but didn't have it in 3rd. That being said, if they were going to revert to the style of 3rd Edition, they should've given the sergeants access to the armoury (like also like they had in 3rd edition, and much like the sergeants in almost every other DA squad now). *awaits the scout sergeants losing their sniper rifles again* I'm sure it's just a typo. Just the question of how long it will take to fix it, modeling wise I'm ignoring it though. While we're on the subject of "making sense": how does it "make sense" that a flag can change the physical nature of a boltgun to make it more shooty? I'm not objecting to the rule, by the way, just pointing out the absurdity of claiming "but this doesn't make sense" when discussing the details of a fantasy wargame set 39,000 years into the future as Im coincidentally thinking about and working on making banners atm, how do these banners even FIT inside the vehicles? Like the ones attached to backpacks.. unless they are clip on/off but then when disembarking.. "hold on guys, brother Bethor is attaching and securing his banner". As for actually making sence about the banner making shooty shootier, it depends on whether you see them as firing 1 shot per turn or several shots / a clip with game-wise only 1 being accurate enough to hit (or the salvo only hitting the 1 target). The banner could inspire the marines around it to be 'more accurate' with this fire (but only with specific bolters ofcourse!) anyway back on topic. I hadn't even noticed RW cm only had max 3 bikes before. 5 makes more sence and should definately help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Smoke Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 So if a character is embarked on a vehicle and he has a PFG, the vehicle doesn't get a 4++? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The only thing I think GW hates is assault deathwing terminators. They gave TH/SS a point cost on top of the point increase for DW terminators (for special rules that assault terminators can't use). Now your sergeant is stuck with a stock power sword, the worst CC option DW terminators have. Um, they just brought our TH/SS into line with everyone else's. We pay a 4 points per model premium on our terminators, for which we get Deathwing Assault, Fearless, Preferred Enemy (CSM) and Vengeful Strike, only one of which is unusable by assault terminators; on top of which we can mix and match ranged and assault terminators within squads and give an assault terminator a Heavy 2 missile launcher if we wish. That doesn't seem like the result of "hatred" to me... The question is, did we need to be brought inline with other codexes? I don't think so. I don't believe there was anything overpowered about them before. Split fire is a rule that assault terminators can't use either. We already had DWA and fearless, so the only new rules are PE(CSM), vengeful strike and split fire. Adding new special rules just bloats their cost and it doesn't make them a better unit. My point is GW is making tactical terminators a more efficient choice over assault terminators, and limiting the wargear the sarge can take really makes me feel like GW doesn't want to use assault DW at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Smoke Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 So if a character is embarked on a vehicle and he has a PFG, the vehicle doesn't get a 4++? Edit: sorry, double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 yes. Brother techmarine has to jog along side the vehicle or ride a bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The only thing I think GW hates is assault deathwing terminators. They gave TH/SS a point cost on top of the point increase for DW terminators (for special rules that assault terminators can't use). Now your sergeant is stuck with a stock power sword, the worst CC option DW terminators have. Um, they just brought our TH/SS into line with everyone else's. We pay a 4 points per model premium on our terminators, for which we get Deathwing Assault, Fearless, Preferred Enemy (CSM) and Vengeful Strike, only one of which is unusable by assault terminators; on top of which we can mix and match ranged and assault terminators within squads and give an assault terminator a Heavy 2 missile launcher if we wish. That doesn't seem like the result of "hatred" to me... The question is, did we need to be brought inline with other codexes? I don't think so. I don't believe there was anything overpowered about them before. Split fire is a rule that assault terminators can't use either. We already had DWA and fearless, so the only new rules are PE(CSM), vengeful strike and split fire. Adding new special rules just bloats their cost and it doesn't make them a better unit. My point is GW is making tactical terminators a more efficient choice over assault terminators, and limiting the wargear the sarge can take really makes me feel like GW doesn't want to use assault DW at all. This could be because we already have an efficient assault terminator unit, Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Smoke Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Damn, there goes my impenetrable command squad In a land raider... My army has never included ravenwing so this update was pretty much all bad news for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 That DW Sarge TYPO is just hogwash. So what, we can no longer make a dedicated Terminator assault unit like any other marine dex? It's a typo, it must be. As someone already mentioned above, I think they intended to clarify the TH/SS + CML combo and inadvertently made a new problem. I know we don't all have this luxury, but I only play with a small group of friends, and I plan on completely ignoring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The only thing I think GW hates is assault deathwing terminators. They gave TH/SS a point cost on top of the point increase for DW terminators (for special rules that assault terminators can't use). Now your sergeant is stuck with a stock power sword, the worst CC option DW terminators have. Um, they just brought our TH/SS into line with everyone else's. We pay a 4 points per model premium on our terminators, for which we get Deathwing Assault, Fearless, Preferred Enemy (CSM) and Vengeful Strike, only one of which is unusable by assault terminators; on top of which we can mix and match ranged and assault terminators within squads and give an assault terminator a Heavy 2 missile launcher if we wish. That doesn't seem like the result of "hatred" to me... The question is, did we need to be brought inline with other codexes? I don't think so. I don't believe there was anything overpowered about them before. Split fire is a rule that assault terminators can't use either. We already had DWA and fearless, so the only new rules are PE(CSM), vengeful strike and split fire. Adding new special rules just bloats their cost and it doesn't make them a better unit. My point is GW is making tactical terminators a more efficient choice over assault terminators, and limiting the wargear the sarge can take really makes me feel like GW doesn't want to use assault DW at all. Personally, I think the improvement to DWA alone is worth the extra 1pt per model compared with the previous 'Dex but, hey, that's just me I'm struggling to think of a better term than "overpowered" for a free 3++ save that any other SM player would have to pay 5pts per model for - happy to take suggestions, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 OK... so the unit embarked inside the vehicle gets a 4++ save... From WHAT exactly? You can't target them with anything. if the Vehicle Blows up, they get an armor save, which is at least a 4+ anyways. The rule is just dumb. And Ill conceived. It is not like the LRC with PFG and Dakka-Pole List took half of the top 16 at Adepticon... (that would be Necrons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Smoke Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 OK... so the unit embarked inside the vehicle gets a 4++ save... From WHAT exactly? You can't target them with anything. if the Vehicle Blows up, they get an armor save, which is at least a 4+ anyways. The rule is just dumb. And Ill conceived. It is not like the LRC with PFG and Dakka-Pole List took half of the top 16 at Adepticon... (that would be Necrons) Exactly, now there is no reason whatsoever to take the PFG, I'm going to have to think up something else to spend the points on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 OK... so the unit embarked inside the vehicle gets a 4++ save... From WHAT exactly? You can't target them with anything. if the Vehicle Blows up, they get an armor save, which is at least a 4+ anyways. The rule is just dumb. And Ill conceived. It is not like the LRC with PFG and Dakka-Pole List took half of the top 16 at Adepticon... (that would be Necrons) Exactly, now there is no reason whatsoever to take the PFG, I'm going to have to think up something else to spend the points on I added a Knight, the relic, and upgraded 2 HFs to ACs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 In fact the new FAQ didnt fixed the CML+LCs or CML+TH/SS but only the DW sgt... they sayd that a model can swap his SB+PF with TH+SS por LCs... in the entry about the CML it saya that a model each five can upgrade his SB with HF,AC,PC OR can take an additiona CML... this means that CML still remains an additional weapon for any loadout you have... if they granted the DW sgt access to the armoury like any othe sergeant was goos... but this way now the DW sgt is fixed SB+PS... My 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I am glad for all the clarifications. I have no problems with any of the changes. I was hoping they would have fixed the issue of Cyclones still being given to TH/SS models though... That really needs to be fixed... Wish they had addressed the DA flyers a little however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I am lost, Why does it need fixed? Its a one wound model with a 3++ save it still fails 33% of the time. Plus you pay for the CML AND for the TH&SS now. I do not understand why people think a Storm Shield makes a model unkillable. I am glad for all the clarifications. I was hoping they would have fixed the issue of Cyclones still being given to TH/SS models though... That really needs to be fixed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martink Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 ...and if Power Field Generator donť work within Land Raider, standards too?:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 ...and if Power Field Generator donť work within Land Raider, standards too? Standards can still give their buff from inside a Land Raider. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Smoke Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I am glad for all the clarifications. I have no problems with any of the changes. I was hoping they would have fixed the issue of Cyclones still being given to TH/SS models though... That really needs to be fixed... Wish they had addressed the DA flyers a little however. Why does it need to be "fixed?" CMLs on TH/SS terminators were a DA thing since last edition, there is nothing that needs "fixing" there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiodome Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 shame i don't play RW :S hasn't affected my pure greenwing too much, for that i just need to wait for the next SM book to obsolete it edit: at least now in response to discussions on this FAQ i get to say "what DA FAQ!?!?" :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I am lost, Why does it need fixed? Its a one wound model with a 3++ save it still fails 33% of the time. Plus you pay for the CML AND for the TH&SS now. I do not understand why people think a Storm Shield makes a model unkillable. I am glad for all the clarifications. I was hoping they would have fixed the issue of Cyclones still being given to TH/SS models though... That really needs to be fixed... It might fail 33% of the time, it will still make it on 67% of the time... Its not "unkillable", but it is surely an advantage that is there. And yes, you pay for it; but how many DA players use it? Most of the ones I see... I am glad for all the clarifications. I have no problems with any of the changes. I was hoping they would have fixed the issue of Cyclones still being given to TH/SS models though... That really needs to be fixed... Wish they had addressed the DA flyers a little however. Why does it need to be "fixed?" CMLs on TH/SS terminators were a DA thing since last edition, there is nothing that needs "fixing" there Just because it was available last DA codex, didn't make it right then either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cielaq Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Regarding CML and TH/SS - when the rule said "replace all weapons with TH/SS" that meant ALL weapons, including CML. So in essence, with the previous rule, model armed with TH/SS and CML was illegal, as purchasing TH/SS would replace not just SB and PF, but also CML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yes cielaq... you had the point but now with this wording it prevents the sgt to take TH/SS or LCs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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