IG versus new Eldar

[Kierdale]

I noticed a few of the marine forums starting up threads to discuss how they would handle the 6th Edition Eldar codex and thought it might be advantageous for us to have one for the mortal man too.

 

No one has faced them yet (I'm sure that will rapidly change over the coming weeks) but please discuss how you see us tackling the Eldar (and for those who have experience facing them as time goes on, please share your experiences and advice).

 

How will we crush the Wraith Knight and his shorter kin?

Protect ourselves against very mobile Fire Dragons?

 

It seems best to get infantry into cover if you spot Howling Banshees on the other side of the table as they lack grenades. May as well force both sides to strike at I1.

 

How abou their flyers? They don't seem too hardy so a quad gun or our own fine flyers should do well there.

[WarriorFish]

I'm not up on their new stuff entirely as I've been busy lately, but I think it's safe to say their general strategies are unlikely to change - just how they do it with their new toys etc. The new life to the codex and models may reanimate an Eldar army in my usual gaming group, plus I've always enjoyed killing the point ear xenos so I'll keep an eye on this topic though I might not have much to add.

 

That said, I've always liked my Eradicator's performance generally but against the lightly armoured and cowardly Eldar that like to skulk around in cover it might be a valuable asset? Not that I don't advocate taking one anyway; anything short of Marines and it carves open entire flanks in short order :) As you mentioned all the flying and skimming going on might lend itself to a Hydra counter.

[Hellios]

Eldar Psykers hit with the Nerf stick in a number of ways... Not a surprise really.

 

The Avatar is a little better, but more expensive I think....

 

Some interesting wargear... I can't say if we will see any reliable nasty combos or not.

 

I can't say the troops should be that worrying. Serpent field is interesting... Might help players who are interested in trying to carry out alpha-strikes.... Leaves them in a weaker position afterwards.

 

Howling Banshees are inferior now :< as far as I'm concerned, a shame.... My favorite aspect.

 

Striking Scorpions could make a mess of infantry if they can get a could position to sneak up.

 

Fire Dragons are more expensive.

 

Harlequins remain the same kind of beast.

 

Wraithguard/Wraithblades are interesting, but fairly expensive. Eldar have problems with large numbers... these guys will just make that tougher.

 

I think Swooping hawks and Warp Spiders have improved. Should be able to make a mess of infantry and lighter vehicles... Heavier vehicles may be at risk if they have moved forward.

 

Shining spears are cheaper.

 

Reapers can all have krak missiles... Expensive but a lot of dakka.

 

Wraithknight expensive... pretty impressive dakka, but basically a WL with more wounds... Can get a Inv save but sacrifices dakka.

 

Overall I'm not impressed by the new codex. I'm not saying it is useless but I'm not worried about anything. It is hard to say how well things work until they we see the lists people will be taking.

 

Eldar have traditionally relied on their powers to buff them... Those powers are no longer reliable :<

[Sviar]

I haven't faced the new Eldar but a Manticore will be something I must take to the fight. I mean their bikes breakes cover shoots and go back to cover before I get a chace to do anything. A Manticore will reach them behind building and forests.

I figure that one or two special weapons squads with democharges will have an impact. And of course we have Sly who is going to appear behind a Fire Prism( they always take at least one) and hope that he hits its rear armour. Or you can ally yourself with a C:SM and have two DPs loaded with Combiplasma Sternguards.

[Obscura]

Really depends on the points values that are going to be played, in larger ones I'll be able to bring enough Manticores and Hydras to deal with anything just as long as I've got enough Chimera mounted Veterans and Leman Russes ( and assorted variants ) to deal with whatever pops up.

 

In smaller point games, I'm not so sure yet, but I'll definitely have to bring Hydras for skimmer blasting.

[WarriorFish]

I've had a bit of a butchers at the new Eldar stuff and some of it seems pretty potent. All that AP2 nonsense isn't too much of a concern for our humble armour saves but they appear to have some nasty anti-tank capabilities, though the question is really how this compares to their previous incarnation.

 

Warp Spiders in particular look like they should be high on the target priority list due to their mobility and weapon strength, especially with the bonus against armour and moving during the assault phase. Are there any xeno loving comrades such as Hellios who can provide a more detailed breakdown?

[Hellios]

On Warp Spiders? or Eldar in general?

[WarriorFish]

Anything you feel you can add :) Apart from not being able to read everything properly yet someone who plays Eldar would offer a more in depth appraisal and come at it from a different angle.

 

Though just so you know once you're done we're sending you to the penal legion for consorting with xenos :P

[hendrik]

there's a really great topic about the eldar in the space wolf subforum

[WarriorFish]

I had a gander at what the Sons of Russ have to say and though some of it is Marine specific I think Grey Mage has the meat of it in his post (quoted below). I think it mostly works along our lines as well, just that the Guard can do more long range shooting and don't have to worry about taking horrendously expensive casualties from shooting as much.

 

I've taken to battering enemy vehicles to ruin with glances as a standard procedure (making penetration results bonuses) so the Wave Serpent field isn't a huge concern there.

 

Quote slightly editing to remove unrelated nested quotes:

 

Dark Reapers have always been a viscious threat- they havent changed a wink, just got cheaper. The big thing to watch out for, I suppose, is that a dark reaper squad can now put out 10 *one per model, the unit size got bigger* pinning krak missiles. Of course, thats a ~400pt squad too....

So, what do we have going on here. Well.... the heavy support slot is as always stuffed to the gills. Eldar will love double FOC more than just about any other army out there, I promise. They also get relatively little out of allies- not because theres nothing to gain, but rather because the list has alot of expensive units in it. I expect Tau Firewarriors with their Infantry commander and some AA Broadsides will be a common inclusion, time will tell.

As for the list itself, things to watch out for: Almost the entire list can move-shoot-move. Its a run with a reroll via fleet, but still powerful. Any table with alot of soft terrain/area terrain will heavily favor the eldar player.

60" weapons. Alot of eldar heavy weapons are only 36", and alot of their best infantry weapons are 12" range. Something we as marine players have always capitalized on. They now have trippled the number of 48" or greater weapons in their arsenal- including having one that is D6+1 S7 shots mounted on every single waveserpent. The Fire Prism no longer needs to link fire- its large blast is automatically S5/AP3, wich means its a marine killer to the core. Expect it to always have a 4+ cover save from its holofield, assuming its moved *and why wouldnt it?*

Warwalkers got cheaper. The heavy weapon options on it got cheaper too. Theyre also BS 4. These will be just as ubiquitous as ever Im sure, but youll see more starcannon+scatterlaser combinations in all likelyhood. Why? Because if the scatter laser hit the other weapon becomes twin linked. Scary stuff.

Warp Spiders are Jet Infantry now, not jump infantry- and their assault move is 2d6+6 or 2d6, the longer one kills a man on doubles. I expect these to be very common *I was using 3 squads in the lst codex, that may become a thing for most players* as they are S7 against anything with I 3 or vs vehicles.

Banshees.... are crippled. They went down to 15pts a piece, but still have no assault transport. Some people will find ways to make them work, but honestly I dont think theyre a worry. If they are, just sit in cover- they have no grenades, so youll go simultaneously with their new masks.

Farseers- no more runes of warding exploding your rune priest heads. Everyone in the game rejoices, except eldar players. Getting witchfire powers off on a unit with a farseer is going to be nearly impossible though. I expect most people will either stop running these guys OR start using exclusively BRB powers due to the... plethora of warp chage 2 powers. Being mastery level 3 doesnt go as far with random powers and most of them costing 2.

Spiritseers- expect to see these in alot of lists. They get to roll on the warlock table- easily the better of the two, AND they make Wraithguard troops. More on Wraithguard in a moment. Look out for debuffs- the spiritseer can potentially remove a point of armor save from everyone on a unit within 18", and remove stealth from entire units is going to be common.

Phoenix Lords are just as crazy badass as ever, and I expect well all be seeing more of them. Particularly:

Asurmen- the Dire Avenger guy, he gets D3 warlord traits, an AP 2 at I7 weapon, 4 attacks, eternal warrior, a 3++ in return for only attacking once if he wants to, oh and his sword is also a leadership-test or die to any unsaved wound kind of weapon. Ooops.

Baharroth. So, Swooping Hawk guy, he deepstrikes without scattering *all swooping hawks do this now* and anyone within 6" must take a blind test. His sword has blind. Swooping Hawk Exarchs have a 3 shot gun with blind. The big old WraithKnights 5++ shield is a 6" aoe blind if he makes his save. Thats ALOT OF BLIND.

Theres for the record alot of blind, alot of pinning, alot of leadership reduction... so, Wolf Guard may be more needed than ever, and roll hot on this initiative checks.

Fire Dragons went up in points to 22pts a model. That means if you arent taking land raiders they will most often be as expensive as the tank they are targetting. Still a threat, still worth their points, they now have a 3+ save and can move-shoot-move. On the other hand... theres alot of good antitank in the eldar army. You may see less of them.

I promised more on Wraithguard- heres the skinny. 5 man units clock in at 160-200pts depending on the option. Cheaper option- 2 AP3 S6 attarcks, 1 AP 2 S7 attack with a 4++, or a S10 gun with AP 2 that instakills on a to wound roll of 6.... the more expensive one? A S4 AP2 flamer. The whole unit must have the same gun. There is no reason this unit will ever, for any reason, not be troops. Sadly for eldar players we cant attach regular warlocks to them anymore. Spiritseer ICs on the other hand....

Wraithlords- lost two points of strength *now S8* but can take two non twin linked heavy weapons of the same type, upgrade to S9, and are still T8 with 3 wounds and a 3+. Grey Hunters should avoid them, but Long Fangs will wreck them in a decent turns rolling with lascannons, or a CML Wolf Guard attachment included.

Wraithknights- ranged options cap out at 36", but it can move 12" a turn as jump infantry. Only 4 attacks, at S10 sure- and if it has a sword it rerolls all failed hits and wounds. The 'suncannon' is 3 small blasts, S6/Ap2, but it can only have one of those *paired with the blinding 5++ shield* so dont let anyone try to take two of them on you! The two guns are S10, AP2, instakill on a 6, with a 36" range. It can take two of the S6 eldar heavy weapons for a steep price, but that might be common.

Wraithknights can Deep Strike. They are 'jump monstrous creatures'. Expect to see this happen atleast once. Have a plan. If at all possible use autocannons on this guy, or biomancied rune priests. Why? To avoid the blind effect. Or you could just do a single champion style hero with a S10 Thunderhammer... we have one of those, itd wreck his face. Catching him on the other hand.... good luck.

Eldar vehicles overall got more expensive in their base price- many of my craftworld brethren scream like the sky is falling because of this. All of the upgrades for weapons etc got sooooo much cheaper though, and for hte most part my vehicles are coming in at 10-50pts cheaper than ever before *except the last few months when holofields were a waste, still* and are all Ballistic Skill 4. Combined with as much twin linking, guiding, etc as you want and its a very, very accurate army.

Most eldar players arent fond of the flyers it sounds like- I think theyre silly, youre local meta will be telling Im sure- the fighter gets 4 S8 AP 2 shots, possibly at BS 5- or 4 S6 and 2 S8 shots. It shreds anything it wants to, and with vector dancer you will not be forcing it off the table anytime soon. Promise. However, we have no flyers for it to shoot down, and so its less of a threat to anything wolves regularly use than say... cron air, or dragonheavy chaos lists. Expect those to be a little less common if you have eldar players in your area. The bomber on the other hand... short ranged, relies on leadership tests to make enemies run.... S6/AP2 blasts at 18".... its offensive enough, but itll die quickly to massed bolter fire, let along anything scarier. Stay in cover, take the hit and then down it like a pidgeon with gas.

Jetbikes on the other hand are much cheaper in their base price- down five points!- and can still move up to 72" a turn. A smart player will have 1-2 small squads hiding the whole game and rush them to objectives near the end. Wolf Scouts with plasmagun+pistols will help remove that as a valid tactic, also help against long range tanks and reapers... Id take them alot. 130pts isnt a bad price for the security they give.


Lastly, a note on shurican weapons. Yes, the rumors are true- any to wound roll of a 6 is AP 2. This is excellent for eldar players. BUT. And its a big but- guardians are still 12" range, so bolters should shred them like nobodies business before theyre ever in range. Dire Avengers are more of a problem, however they can no longer 'bladestorm' for additional shots. So, you can expect to lose perhaps 2-3 guys from AP2, and about the same from failed saves, if they get a solid chunk of hits. If you reduce the squads firepower, or have a cover save, theyre less threatening in many ways than they once were- and more expensive.

Yes, you should take a whirlwind to remove rangers from objectives and other scoring units from wherever they are.