Garath Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Here's my 2 cent on psychic powers . First- everyone has better psychic powers now- except Orks and Tau. Eldar powers are something old,something new , something borrowed and something blue (a lame pun- I know ) . Old powers are not better then they where- but armies that had decent (or good) protection against them via Pschchic Hood can't block any powers from working to save their lives! New powers are ok- but more often then not , an Eldar player would rather choose an old power that he knows he can depend on. The catch is he has no choice ! Borrowed powers from the BRB are a mixed bag and random and nothing to count on with such specialized units. If you have a unit of infantry that deals with other infantry -like most aspect warriors, you need those guys to really do their thing well- or they'll die very,very soon. Something blue is the last part of my lame , but meaningful (!) pun , that illustrates the sadness of the situation where you can get a Farseer with 3 warp tokens per turn and only one great power and 2 very mediocre ones. I'll finish my post underlining the fact that all powers are generated randomly, after you choose your army ....so they will not be the "perfect" ones for the army chosen. 18 powers per turn indeed seem a lot. Counting in the fact that Warlocks didn't roll to use their powers the last 3 editions( and they do now)- they still had the powers but they where seen as squad upgrades. Now they roll to use them - and will fail some of those rolls Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3404850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFisty Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Having to pick psychic powers randomly is lame, I agree. I think all psychers should chose which power they use. I think Warlocks should have to roll a psychic check; no psychic powers should be free but Ld. 8 is weak for a psycher. As I said in my first post, I understand and have no problem with Eldar having the best psychic capabilities in the game. I do think that seven powers per turn (I am not sure if they can have more or not) are a bit much. As for Grey Knights, I think they are very broken. One of many examples would be Techmarines with psychic powers. I will not expand more on them right now in spite of the ample number of problems I have with their codex. I did not mention them before because they have a 5th. ed. codex and I have discussed it a lot with friends by this point. What's next, Dreadnoughts with psychic powers? Oh, wait... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3405591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Having to pick psychic powers randomly is lame, I agree. I think all psychers should chose which power they use. I think Warlocks should have to roll a psychic check; no psychic powers should be free but Ld. 8 is weak for a psycher. As I said in my first post, I understand and have no problem with Eldar having the best psychic capabilities in the game. I do think that seven powers per turn (I am not sure if they can have more or not) are a bit much. As for Grey Knights, I think they are very broken. One of many examples would be Techmarines with psychic powers. I will not expand more on them right now in spite of the ample number of problems I have with their codex. I did not mention them before because they have a 5th. ed. codex and I have discussed it a lot with friends by this point. What's next, Dreadnoughts with psychic powers? Oh, wait... Psychic powers are not free. The Warlocks cost an extra 10pts now... but the psychic powers they used to have cost around that much if not more. Considering one of those psychic powers is a heavy flamer. Why is it broken that the best psykers can cast fairly simple powers (by Eldar standards) without a psychic test... when some of the powers just do what wargear that others can take can do (but the wargear doesn't require a psychic test). Augment was the only old warlock power that required a psychic test. As for how many powers you can do in a turn? In 2,000pts (double FOC) you could cast 33 psychic powers in a turn. Good luck getting 33 useful psychic powers (Is there a default ruling on powers stacking, specifically the same power cast more than once on the same unit... I can't remember right now). The number of powers you can cast a turn doesn't really matter. What matters is what you can do with those powers, and how much did they cost you? 1 game breaking psychic power is better than 33 useless powers (I'm not claiming that the powers that the Eldar can take are useless). The problem is that many Eldar players relied on psychic powers. As an Ulthwé player I used to take Warlocks in every squad that could take them. It was a fluff point for me... but being able to pick my power meant I could always get something that would help my squad in some way. Not needing to take a psychic test meant my expensive sergeants didn't blow themselves up. Compare a Warlock to a normal sgt. You pay for 3 things. The psychic power, flesh/armor bane and a 4++. The problem with the psychic powers has been discussed. The real issue is generation... It really has an impact on how effective Warlocks will be in a council or assigned to different squads. Flesh/armor bane isn't bad, but it isn't great outside of a council. A council where they are all equipped with F/A bane can all go and hunt MCs and vehicles; even in this situation they are only so so against MCs; MCs will be able to take saves against the attacks made by the warlocks (with luck you have been able to reduce the MCs save)... thank god you have that 4++ save... you are going to need it to survive the attacks it throws at you. Assigned to squads it varies. A singing spear is probably worthwhile on a jetbike squad that is going to get close to the enemy... It gives you a bit of ranged AT.... That however costs you a bit more... but I would spend the 5pts. Storm guardians can also benefit from it as they will likely be in combat. That still leaves you with the problem that your sergeant won't be able to bypass the opposing characters armor when he challenges you... It becomes a slug fest to see who fails a save first. Better hope your guardians do well in combat... at least 2 of them can take power weapons. My point is... I think most people take Warlocks for their powers. F/A bane is a nice bonus. The 4++ probably isn't used that much (I'd normally throw away a guardian over a 50/50 chance on my warlock), except in squads of seers. These squads are expensive, and are only really good at hunting vehicles... and possibly tar-pitting units with power weapons and so on... For that alone they are too expensive. |They need useful powers. Now you don't know if they will get useful powers (although they might get even better powers now) and you have a decent chance of your powers not working at some point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3405846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFisty Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Allow me to clarify: I understand and agree with Eldar having psychic abilities that other armies do not have. Especially when one considers the fluff, it makes perfect sense. I think all psychic powers should require a psychic test, even for special characters. Ld. 8 is weak, especially for Eldar powers. As for the FOC at 2,000 points, it irritates me enough as is, even more so if it makes 33 psychic powers per turn a possibility. Maybe my friend is particularly adept at using Eldar psychic powers compared to other Eldar players in my local meta game. No other local Eldar players have taken more than one Psyker per game with the new codex. Since the new codex allows for lots of BS 4 with potential for AP 2 goodness, I thought I would see a lot more Prescience from the Divination powers. Nevertheless, Eldar have always been fierce, and rightly so, but this new version seems even more tenacious than ever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3406299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Allow me to clarify: I understand and agree with Eldar having psychic abilities that other armies do not have. Especially when one considers the fluff, it makes perfect sense. I think all psychic powers should require a psychic test, even for special characters. Ld. 8 is weak, especially for Eldar powers. Why? Why does a character have to take a psychic test just because it is a psychic power. Is this a rules matching the fluff thing? Otherwise... If I have a psychic power that acts like a heavy flamer... I don't see why it would be broken to not take a test. A psychic power that acts like a heavy flamer (but requires all the psychic nonsense) should be cheaper than a heavy flamer. As for the FOC at 2,000 points, it irritates me enough as is, even more so if it makes 33 psychic powers per turn a possibility. Why does the number of psychic powers matter? Eldar could use 25 (or near enough that) powers a turn with one FOC using the old codex. I don't remember seeing Eldar armies winning all over the place from abusing those powers. That is my point. The number of psychic powers isn't very important. It is the cost and what you can use them with that makes the difference. Maybe my friend is particularly adept at using Eldar psychic powers compared to other Eldar players in my local meta game. No other local Eldar players have taken more than one Psyker per game with the new codex. Since the new codex allows for lots of BS 4 with potential for AP 2 goodness, I thought I would see a lot more Prescience from the Divination powers. Nevertheless, Eldar have always been fierce, and rightly so, but this new version seems even more tenacious than ever. Yeah... but only Farseers can get Divination... With 2 FOCs using all my HQ slots I can get 4 Farseers which gives me 12/12 powers a turn. It is also a 1/4 of my army at 2,000pts. Farseers are okay. You can always choose to go with the primaris power from three different tables. Roll first and hope you geta good power... If you don't... Take the primaris. You can rely on that. Spiritseers are okay. But I see them as a budget HQ or a way of unlocking wraiths as troops. Warlocks which you with up to 20 charges a turn with a double FOC only have their table. Currently, people seem to agree that RAW means they are assigned to squads before they generate powers... They are not ICs so you had better hope you actually get a power that works with the squad it is attached to. Also pray that you don't fail your test or kill yourself, which happens near enough to half the time (I can't be bothered to work out the actual percentage)... so i don't care. Basically I don't see the problem with psychic powers. Some other armies get these abilities without having to take psychic tests. Some of these psychic powers are not very good. Others will end up being in a squad where they are not very useful... or you will just fail your tests. Eldar are nasty if used properly, but they can do that without psychic powers. If anything psychic powers are probably weaker in the new codex just because you can't count on having anything but primaris powers (so those remain strong). If you get lucky you can get some great powers... but you need to get lucky. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3406372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Because... because... psychic tests, psychic powers... its all just... psychic! Meh. These days is like a super-gets-hot roll really, wich is to bad. The key to getting rid of eldar psychic powers? S6 weapons- ACs, TFCs, etc.... just start instagibbing those psyckers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3406418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 What's next, Dreadnoughts with psychic powers? Oh, wait... Yeah, as a Grey Knight player, I'm still bitter that the Blood Angels got those. And we got a single power that was OP for 5th and very mediocre for 6th. Anyone else think I am being silly or does anyone else think that seven psychic powers per turn creates an imbalance of power that hurts the overall integrity of the game? Silly. What the problem actually is, is armies with absolutley no Psychic Defense (HAI Deldar!). Edit: Bare the base deny ofc. And on that topic, Deny has reduced the power of Psychic attacks across the board. That plus random choices, plus the above mentioned change to rolled powers not automatic ones (like old Walrocks, entire old Daemon dex) has limited any power gains you might have got from the new powers. Buff powers generally remian the best to take, with Divination topping that list. No other local Eldar players have taken more than one Psyker per game with the new codex. They're missing out on a lot of Conceal... You'd think they would quite like that, on very fragile troops. Or Turbo Boositng Bikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3406839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Except why would you want to take Guardians if you have access to Dire Avengers? Maybe one unit, to camp objectives in cover- in wich case sure, conceal away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3406922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Because they're cheaper and you can get more of them. Sure, if you're running MSU in Serpents, go nuts. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3407031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Because twenty of them with two scatter lasers, with a Concealock and Maugan Ra, hiding behind an ADL sitting on an objective is a scoing brick with a ridiculous amount of firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3407237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 At 12"... for 450pts... 550 with aegisline, it had better be. Sadly for them itll evaporate when touched by any kind of ordnance barrage, and lucky for us thats in particular a whirlwind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3407515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 . . . which I have yet to see on a battlefield in 6th Edition. At the very least, the Guardians will still get their 5+ cover from Stealth, and with Ra there, they're Fearless and thus won't run away. In the meantime, I would expect that Whirlwind to get no more than two rounds of shooting before something in the ridiculously fast Eldar force kills it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276324-so-eldar/page/5/#findComment-3407825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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