Kill Team

[Sanguine Eternal]

Been off the forum for a few months, and found out my local GW shop is doing a Kill Team event in a couple weeks.
I didn't really feel this was suitable under army lists since its a 200pt event and its for the most part, going to be 1 squad.

I've never played a Kill Team game, but it sounds like it could be some fun, and have been playing around with some ideas.

So, we're given 200points.  My first thought was immediately some sternguard with some combi-weapons.  Love the special ammo, but I think I came to my final decision with my Space Hulk termies.  They have yet to see the a battle outside of the Space Hulk, and thought this is up their alley.  Their poses are so dynamic, and figured it would be easy to choose 3 specialists.

So here it goes... 

Sgt. Lorenzo(Leader) Hatred

 

Terminator with scope on stormbolter: Strikedown

Terminator holding genestealer corpse: Rage
Thoughts??

I've chosen these traits mainly for the way they look and figured it would be fun.  I want to know what everyone else has been using, what traits you found worked really well, and how your games went.  I've browsed the forum for some info, but seems like they are a little larger games than the ones I'm going to encounter.

[TheHarrower]

I just came in second in a Kill Team tournament. Actually, my list is in the thread right before this one, but we played 250 points. If you are playing fluff that sounds cool, but Terminators wouldn't perform well honestly. You are going to get outgunned and when facing hordes like Imperial Guard, they can go to ground in cover for a 3+ cover save and just whittle you down from a distance.

 

Sternguard are great and can deal with a wide variety of lists and I honestly wouldn't even consider anything else because they are so flexible. For 200 points you can get 7 Sternguard w/ Combi-plasma, Multi-melta, and Lascannon. I'd go Relentless on the Multi-melta, Preferred Enemy on the Lascannon, and maybe Feel No Pain on your Leader and give him the Combi-plasma. You simply can't beat Sternguard for versatility in this format.

[knife&fork]

Sternguard suffer from poor volume of fire outside of 12"-15". Trading shots with much cheaper models isn't going to win you many games. 

 

It's extremely difficult to make a good kill-team list with BA due the extra cost on everything and the inability to use reserves. Perhaps try to make room for a dual HB speeder and pray for first turn?

[Hellios]

5 naked terminators will have a tough time.

 

What is good in KT really depends on what House Rules are in use.

 

For example... Can a kill-team share a transport (despite being individual units)... Do units with the Brotherhood of Psykers rule count each model as a ML1 psyker?

 

To look at extremes.

 

Do you think you can fight 30 IG/Boyz? Do you think you can defeat a venerable dread? They are probably the two extremes... and they are fairly tough, but they might not be the best. If a kill-team is allowed to share a transport... IG vets in a chimera are pretty good. If BoPs makes every model a ML1 Psyker... 20 Horrors could ruin most peoples days.

 

For BA... I would be tempted to go with Sternguard for flexibility or if you feel like putting all of your eggs in one basket... SOme kind of dread... just hope your opponents didn't bring too much AT.

[TheHarrower]

Sternguard suffer from poor volume of fire outside of 12"-15". Trading shots with much cheaper models isn't going to win you many games. 

 

It's extremely difficult to make a good kill-team list with BA due the extra cost on everything and the inability to use reserves. Perhaps try to make room for a dual HB speeder and pray for first turn?

 

You don't have to trade shots. If there is a lot of terrain (and there's supposed to be) you can let them come to you and kill them as they get in range. YMMV, but it worked for me until I did exactly this in my last game. Was too tired to play smart.

[Sanguine Eternal]

I always have a full squad of sternguard in all my games and they're performance is always reliable.  I don't have any heavy weapons sternguard painted up, but I can always use a tactical marine I guess.  The terminators I figured would be fun, but you're right.  They will get overwhelmed by numbers.

I'll do some thinking over the next few days and see what I can do.  My first list I think I had 5 sternguard with a speeder.  WIll give it some thought.  Cheers.

[knife&fork]

 

Sternguard suffer from poor volume of fire outside of 12"-15". Trading shots with much cheaper models isn't going to win you many games. 

 

It's extremely difficult to make a good kill-team list with BA due the extra cost on everything and the inability to use reserves. Perhaps try to make room for a dual HB speeder and pray for first turn?

 

You don't have to trade shots. If there is a lot of terrain (and there's supposed to be) you can let them come to you and kill them as they get in range. YMMV, but it worked for me until I did exactly this in my last game. Was too tired to play smart.

 

If the opponent deploys aggressively and just march at you while shooting you won't really be able to hide on a small 4x4 table. We can't pop back into cover after shooting so there's no way around exposing yourself. 

[Sanguine Eternal]

Since points are an issue, and models to some degree, what about this.

 

5 man Sternguard with 2 ML, 1 combi-melta (modelled)  I suppose I could look for a combi-plasma in my bits box somewhere or make one

1 Landspeeder Typhoon w dual HB

200pts

 

Also on another note.  Anyone had any good games with a 5 man scout unit with snipers?  I would imagine that they could potentially play a great roll for gaining victory points such as taking out their specialists from afar, bunkering down in some heavy cover.  I would have to eliminate all the heavy weapons and combi weapons from the sternguard, and I don't know if it would be worth it...
 

I think with the 7 man squad you listed above, I would tweak it a bit.  2 ML, 1 combi plasma, 1 combi-melta, melta bombs on sgt.
It sounds good on paper.  I can't justify the points for the lascannon in a small game when the ML is a third of the cost at -1 str.

 

Thanks for the input, off to doing some refurbishing on the squad.

[Quixus]

1 Landspeeder Typhoon w dual HB

How can the lands speeder get a Typhoon Missile Launcher and two heavy bolters? The vehicle can only be upgraded by a Typhoon ML or an additional HB.

Any Land Speeder can be upgraded with one of the following:

- a Typhoon missile launcher

- a Tornado pattern:

- heavy flamer or heavy bolter

[Sanguine Eternal]

Sorry my bad, I skipped over the tornado line in the dex.  I realize what the upgrades are, just a typo. Been a long day.  But thanks for contributing.

[TheHarrower]

I think with the 7 man squad you listed above, I would tweak it a bit.  2 ML, 1 combi plasma, 1 combi-melta, melta bombs on sgt.

It sounds good on paper.  I can't justify the points for the lascannon in a small game when the ML is a third of the cost at -1 str.

 

I wanted the Lascannon for the higher AP and I'm glad I took it. I had to deal with a Chimera, Armoured Sentinel, and a couple Rhinos and that was a better bet than a Missile Launcher. No Terminators thankfully, but it was a possibility. Tweak it to what works for you. I wouldn't take the Melta Bombs though. You'll never use those. Better off with another Combi-weapon.

 

As for Scout Snipers, I can never get them to work. BS3 just kills me for some reason. More bodies is more preferable in this format and it might be worth a try. 

[Sanguine Eternal]

Scouts have always performed so so for me as well, but I like to field them in games for that off chance that I roll 6's.  I don't think I will include them, because my sternguard would have to be a basic 5 man no ups squad, and that just won't be as effective.

I see what you are saying with the AP of the LC, but I think I will stick with the 2 ML for the extra shot.  And the combi weapon over the melta bombs is just a modelling issue.  I may try to make another combi plasma if I have time, but the game is next weekend, and it's hard to find time lately for painting/converting. 

I'll post a pic of the kill team when they're done.

[Sanguine Eternal]

So here is what I have decided to bring for the Kill Team event tomorrow. A 7 man Sternguard, armed with 2 ML, 2 combi plasmas, 1 combi melta.
1 ML with Relentless, 1 combi plasma with preferred enemy, and 1 combi plasma with shred.  Leader will hopefully get some perks later in the event...
 

Sgt.Severus

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y404/Stevezi/DSCF2766_zps1b9e3e53.jpg

3 Perkless Sternguard
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y404/Stevezi/DSCF2763_zps5c7b8954.jpg

3 Specialists
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y404/Stevezi/DSCF2764_zps66a43bb5.jpg
 

Should be fun tomorrow, pretty excited to try em out.

[TheHarrower]

Looking good. Best of luck brother. I like the grenades on the shoulder pad. Cool idea.

[Sanguine Eternal]

So I lost my first game pretty badly.  16 VP to 1 against a bunch of eldar guardians, and some snipers.
Won my 2nd game 6 VP to 1 against sisters of battle.  Would have been more, but the time limit ran out as I was in combat with his last 2 models...
Lost my last game to Tau/Kroot snipers.  Again, outnumbered big time.

So what I have learned is rapid fire is no good really in Kill Teams since every model is their own individual unit.  Im sure you could make up your own house rules to split your fire but oh well.  I had to bow out early, parking was getting to expensive, could have had maybe one or two more games in.

I won best painted models their though, so that was nice.  Everyone really liked them.

Shred was a useless perk for first game.  I apparently can't give my combi plasma shred.  So that was a waste.  I ended up giving my leader FnP for 2nd and 3rd game.  Was better, and he ended up with +1 BS.

[TheHarrower]

The tournament I played in allowed split fire per the rulebook provided the 2 models were with 2" of one another (normal coherency). If they don't let you do that, it's tough to play against horde. Congrats on best painted. They look good!

[Quixus]

The tournament I played in allowed split fire per the rulebook provided the 2 models were with 2" of one another (normal coherency). If they don't let you do that, it's tough to play against horde. Congrats on best painted. They look good!

Huh? I don't get it. Kill team considers every model a separate unit. So two models can always shoot at different targets, no leadership test required.

[Sanguine Eternal]

I think he was referring to the rapid fire hitting 2 separate enemies?  Which is what I had a problem with.  Since every single model is considered its own unit in their own right, my rapid firing bolter rolls 2 wounds for example, and I am only able to take out the individual model I was targeting, and his buddy right next to him was safe.  Oh well...

The 2" rule makes sense, if I was firing at a group of enemies and they happened to be within 2" of each other, then yes, that makes sense.  I would definitely incorporate that into some house rules for next time.

From all the games I watched, and even lost, snipers were the difference makers.  My opponents managed to get a lot of rending shots in lucky for me...
I do like the idea though of small skirmish games with specialists.  It was fun even though I took a beating.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm going to necromancer up this thread because I am trying to prepare a list for exactly the same thing - a 200 point kill team, though there are two important differences:

 

1) My game is going to be in a Cities of Death environment. The table will be super packed with lots of multi-level city ruins terrain. We will be employing Cities of Death stratagems (I think...) as well as Kill Team rules.

2) The hive we're fighting in is going to be crumbling. On a 4+ - rolled at the top of each game - buildings will crumble and parts of the ceiling may fall on unengaged units and squish them.

 

My initial thought was to abuse Ignores Cover as much as possible. A sternguard squad with heavy flamers and some sniper scouts (with camo cloaks, of course) and the Master Snipers stratagem (grants any models with Sniper weapons Ignores Cover). My other thought was to go with an assault squad and a nearly-free razorback with either flamers (for the ignores cover) or heavy bolters (to provide covering fore for my assault marines). 

 

What do you think?

[Judaz]

I think 10 DC, that's what I think

[Sanguine Eternal]

10 DC doesn't give you any options for anti armour as you're at your 200 point cap already.  I like DC as they come stock with a ton of USR, but I feel like you should take a scout squad w/ snipers for example, and fill in the blanks with DC and weapon upgrades after.

[ElectricPaladin]

At the moment, I don't actually own any death company on foot, just death company with jump packs, and that's probably too pricey to be worth it in Kill Team. If you guys support the idea of sniper scouts, though, I can definitely use the ones I built.

 

If I include five sniper scouts with camo cloaks, that's 90 points. I still have 110 points left to play around with... the question is, what do I do with them?

[Sanguine Eternal]

Sniper scouts are good when you're rolling is on.  I still use them in almost every game at 1750pts in a squad of 10.  You can use 3 DC with jump packs, plus power weapons etc for that extra 110 pts.

[Xenith]

Are you using the actual cities of death rules, or just the strategems?<br /><br />If its the rules, flamers will be broken CoD in KT as I think they just do D6 hits instead of using the template. Sternguard are bonus for their ammo including the ignores cover.<br /><br />Are you using the latest kill team rules, or the 4th ed ones?<br /><br />5 stern, 5 scouts?

[ElectricPaladin]

Latest Kill Team rules.

 

No Cities of Death rules after all (checked with the CO), just ordinary 6th Edition Killteam on a 4'' x 4'' table with hella city ruins terrain.