Are you happy with your DA codex?

[Terrahawk]

I think we have a very solid Codex. It's not overpowered, but it certainly can hold its own. I've seen some whining around the Internet concerning our 'dex, but when I personally look at the Codex, I have a hard time seeing why. But the Internet has always thrived on negativity and knee-jerk reactions, so I'm not taking it all very seriously.

I do feel our fliers could be stronger, but luckily we have excellent and cheap AA in the form of Mortis Dreads from Forgeworld. I think a lot of us are a bit scared of the horror that happened in 5th Edition, when GW did a complete 180 on Codex design. But I feel this time the situation is different, because our army book actually has a strong character of its own, unlike the 4th Edition Codex. Let the Vanilla Marines have their own toys, as long as we get to keep ours unique.

So yeah, I'm happy with it.

[HsojVvad]

And probably we wont get any supplement cause the only rumored one the fallen supplement is more a matter of CSM than DA...

We will see in few weeks... and then we will start to cry...

If Tyranids could be getting a Suppliment, then I can see DA getting supplements as well. Disciples of Caliban anyone? :)

It's a sad day. I was on Dakka Dakka, and I saw my first DA player already complaining about SM rumours. I mentioned he was the first and then someone said, no he is not, it's happening on other sites as well. I am so glad it's not happening here.

I like our codex. As was said before, it's not overpowered. You can win, you can loose. If you win, nobody will cry OP cheese. Lots of options to field, and you can play a very fluffy army as well. I liked what GW had done.

[elphilo]

From a pure fluff and playablity stance, I love the codex. Its really fun to play. But from a competitive stance we aren't a top tier codex. More middle ground and some would put us closer to the bottom. I don't agree with the bottom but I think we're a good middle ground codex. There are just too many bad match ups for us. But this is all from a purely competitive stance. Like I said, we're a super fun codex.

 

But I will admit, if C:SM gets some sort of "bigger terminator" like the rumors suggest I'll be a little miffed.

Nope, Eldar are not that powerful. My brother plays Eldar and I regularly wipe the floor with him. The two armies are balanced.

Not to derail this thread, but I have to ask. How many wave serpents does he use? How many Wraithguard with D-Scythes? How many Wraithknights? There's a reason people complain about certain things. While the rest of the eldar codex is pretty balanced, these 3 things seem to be the most complained about.

Admittedly, Tau are not that common here, well I lie, they were not common. I have not played them yet due to not being anywhere to do so since the new codex dropped, but the massive scare people have over them I do not understand. Sure they are powered well over their old codex, but broken? nope.

So you've never played versus them. What are you basing your opinion on then? When Tau first came out I read the codex. Didn't seem too powerful, but nice and balanced. Then I played with them. When you have 5 turns and manage to get in 9 rounds of shooting, there's a problem lol.

[march10k]

 

 

...and we were also undersold on AA.....a single TL lascannon and some S6 missiles on the Nephilim, or a 10 point upgrade per missile for Flakk, or an Aegis and a Quad gun..... that's it, essentially.....

 

I disagree...a full lascannon dev squad with a prescience PFG librarian in support isn't primarily AAA, it's the unkillable antitank easy button, but it can do the job against aircraft when needed.  That's kind of key for me.  I don't face air every time out, so I don't want to spend points on stuff that only kills air...but I don't mind if my non-AAA stuff has AAA capability!  And said godhammer squad isn't dramatically worse than a flakk squad.  It gets fewer hits (effectively 8 shots at a 6), but the hits that do land...they pack a punch, while flak missiles just bounce off.

 

On topic...I love the new book.  I loved the old one, too, lol.  The new belial is a maniac, but I liked it when he was expendable, too!  Sure, termies are more expensive, but bikes are cheaper and better than before.  And remember that we're the only loyalists to have their termies re-pointed since the power weapon nerf...I'll bet the others face a similar hike...with great survivability comes great points cost!

 

And 17 point assault marines?  Down from 25 points?  Sold!

[Brother dean]

I may not have won many games with my non-mech, pure Deathwing list, but the feeling you get from putting 25+ Terminators on the table is truly unique.

Ten termies with 18 bikes and assorted speeders is a good feeling too....

[captain sox]

I really like the Codex. I think the questions should be along the lines of:  are you happy with you're style of play? Are you looking for a "cut and paste" internet list/army to dominate every game? Are you afraid of failure? Do you want to win at all costs, or do you just want a fun night with the boys (or gals) throwing dice and having fun?

 

To me, this is a hobby. I paint, I build and I play. I don't excel in any of those categories, and I take it for what it is. A hobby. I don't care about winning at all. I like the fluff and the models our codex and army have to offer.

 

Another thing to consider, is our Codex is very strong at the 750-1000 point level. You don't HAVE to put terminators in all of your lists.

 

No offence is intended to the OP or anyone who reads and responds. I'm just giving my thoughts.

[Tiger9gamer]

I was thinking about allying in a biker captain (if they are good) for my GOTC ravenwing. Maybe make him the leader of it, while making Sableclaw like a "Statis tomb" for the fallen to be captured in.

 

 

also, Maybe I could use those grav guns on tactical squads if they are good.

[JeffJedi]

Why not just use a Chaplain as a counts as?

[Tiger9gamer]

Why not just use a Chaplain as a counts as?

>_>

<.<

 

shush.

 

 

and then i would miss out on the new toys =(

[Syphid]

 

2. Too much emphasis on RW/DW. Tac squads, Assault squads, Scouts, Chaplains and Company Masters changed very little and are once again going to be an edition behind Vanilla Marines. DA is really just a Bike and Terminator army.

.

 

Moreover, our green marines are not less effective than their UM pendants... They have the exact same wargear, tactical squads can take HW or SW when they are 5... And the assault squad... One day, one of you will have to explain me what is the problem with those... They are the exact same as vanilla one and when I read you I feel that our assault squads are worse!

 

For the next three weeks.  Then in September, just like 5th edition, a new C:SM will drop difining a new standard of what a Tactical Squad, Assault Squad, etc is and power armor DA will be an edition behind.  Remember waiting years for Dev squads to get a Signum, Razorbacks to have Las/Plas, Dreadnoughts to have quad autocannon (a pattern that Dark Angels invented!!) etc?  It's going to be like that all over again. 

 

There will be two tiers of "standard" Space Marine units:  Dark Angels, and C:SM.  The bread and butter units of the Chapter (the ones who do most of the fighting) will just plain be worse...  i.e. Transports, Tac Squads, Masters, Company Vets and Scouts simply having fewer rules and wargear options but with no benefit.  Blood Angels will get the new updates because their codex will be after C:SM, and will fall in line with the new standard of what a Space Marine army is.

 

Assault Squads are one of the worst unit choices in our Codex.  Their only real use is drop pod triple flamer.

[Master Sheol]

 

 

2. Too much emphasis on RW/DW. Tac squads, Assault squads, Scouts, Chaplains and Company Masters changed very little and are once again going to be an edition behind Vanilla Marines. DA is really just a Bike and Terminator army.

.

 

Moreover, our green marines are not less effective than their UM pendants... They have the exact same wargear, tactical squads can take HW or SW when they are 5... And the assault squad... One day, one of you will have to explain me what is the problem with those... They are the exact same as vanilla one and when I read you I feel that our assault squads are worse!

 

For the next three weeks.  Then in September, just like 5th edition, a new C:SM will drop difining a new standard of what a Tactical Squad, Assault Squad, etc is and power armor DA will be an edition behind.  Remember waiting years for Dev squads to get a Signum, Razorbacks to have Las/Plas, Dreadnoughts to have quad autocannon (a pattern that Dark Angels invented!!) etc?  It's going to be like that all over again. 

 

There will be two tiers of "standard" Space Marine units:  Dark Angels, and C:SM.  The bread and butter units of the Chapter (the ones who do most of the fighting) will just plain be worse...  i.e. Transports, Tac Squads, Masters, Company Vets and Scouts simply having fewer rules and wargear options but with no benefit.  Blood Angels will get the new updates because their codex will be after C:SM, and will fall in line with the new standard of what a Space Marine army is.

 

Assault Squads are one of the worst unit choices in our Codex.  Their only real use is drop pod triple flamer.

I agree here... i think that vanilla marines will have the reduced points that we have but more options for their squads...

 

To drop pod a triple flamer i would use better a command or CoVet squad that dont take a FA slot... more bikes we need more bikes...

[Bryan Blaire]

Yeah, more options that you can ally in. There is nothing lost. You have to give up something for being so insular and building a Legion.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I fail to see how a new SM Codex will automatically invalidate ours. Sure they may get some similar options and their own toys, but that is to be expected, still they'll play their strengths and we'll play ours. Only bandwagoners (lacking better word)will jump to the shiny new toys at the first hint of lactose products, the rest of us D fans will keep on our merry ride, like before, this time with a Codex that has much more shelf life.

Just my 2 cents.

[marvmoogy]

I think there is something in being a little concerned about our 'dex being a bit behind the new C:SM one....

 

Maybe I'm being a bit cynical here, but it makes sense for GW's bean counters that every new release is ever so slightly more powerful than the one before.  Let me explain:

1) you get into the hobby and start an army

2) you paint them up and play some games

3) you learn your strengths and weaknesses

4) you play against a new release and get your backside handed to you

5) you try again, and fail

6) you try again, and fail 

7) you get annoyed and buy some allies

8) your 'plastic crack' addiction gets the better of you and before you know it, you've dropped £500 in a new army

9) GW smiles at thier cunning

 

as I said...I may be being cynical, but.....

[Brother dean]

Yeah, more options that you can ally in. There is nothing lost. You have to give up something for being so insular and building a Legion.

Dont forget Stasis, Cloaking and Disruptor technology that is not going to be seen outside the Eldar Codex cause we wont share with the Mechanicum....   So I wont begrudge vanilla for their own DAoT graviton guns.  Besides, I am going to appropriate some FW Hersey era tech into my army when our Hersey book comes out.

[Gillyfish]

I think overall the Codex is pretty good - lots of options and several viable builds. It really like the medieval feel and the focus on the more knightly aspect of the Dark Angels.

 

Granted, I haven't played a game with new book yet, although I do intend to once I have painted up a few more units.

 

Marvmoogy, I'm not sure I agree with that analysis, or, if that is the strategy it is now highly flawed. I think it may well once have been a marketing strategy, but I'm not sure it is anymore. The reason I think it might be flawed as a strategy is that the hobby is far more expensive than it used to be. That makes it impractical to rely on people collecting multiple armies as it's simply too expensive to sustain for most gamers nowadays. They might have more luck with allies, but it's likely to be a slow expand, and I'm not sure how many gamers are going to buy lots of different allies.

 

I may be wrong of course, but that's my view.

 

So, overall, I'd say it's a pretty good book and has plenty of options for different builds.

[Pbenner]

Marvmoogy - We call those people "FotM'rs" and generally they are power-gamers who want to WAAC.  Not my kind of play.

 

Tactically, a brilliant strategy goes a long way in winning this game.  Making sure that when you setup the battle field you have plenty of LOS blocking terrain against highly shooty armies, etc.  

 

I play a pure Deathwing force, and to be totally honest, I struggle to pull wins out against most armies.  With my low body count and limited numbers of scoring units I can bring to bear, and with the meta shifting more and more to AP2 shooting attacks being required, it can really suck.  But when I do pull out a clutch win, it's all the more satisfying.  

 

I'm a hobby guy at heart, thus my whole thing about painting and modeling and converting being 90% of the time I spend on this game.  The new codex gave us some fun toys, and I REALLY enjoy them.  It's not always about winning.

 

Paul

[Artemid]

I'm steeling myself for a repeat of 4th/5th, just with a smaller gap but the same essential issue. I think we might just end up with 3 or 4 basic builds instead of 1.

 

More than happy to be proven wrong, but we all know that hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

[Master Sheol]

YEs... be prepared for worst and not for best...

I rememeber how GW cheated us last time and as we are again before Hasbro marines we must wait until C:SM comes out before being sure we will not be robbed again...

[elphilo]

I'm steeling myself for a repeat of 4th/5th, just with a smaller gap but the same essential issue. I think we might just end up with 3 or 4 basic builds instead of 1.

More than happy to be proven wrong, but we all know that hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

This is exactly the stance I'm taking currently and I feel most people should be ready for history to repeat itself.

[Pbenner]

Well,

 

At least we didn't get rolled up into being a C:SM Chapter like a certain Chapter...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Paul

[Brother dean]

Well,

 

At least we didn't get rolled up into being a C:SM Chapter like a certain Chapter...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Paul

Exactly!  I welcome more units that dont crossover between the codexes because I am tired of the "You oughta be rolled in" argument.

[Artemid]

Well,

 

At least we didn't get rolled up into being a C:SM Chapter like a certain Chapter...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Paul

 

Which is totally up in the air still and can we please not even bring that topic up? That horse is zombified and running on pure vitriol now.

[cypherthefallenangel]

Yah its gonna turn out like last time. Hell their fliers are already better. What ever , it is what it is. Ive gotten use to up hill battles from the last codex and I didn't forsake the dark angels. Ill do it again if I have to.

[Tanhausen]

Not wanting to be repetitive...but ours is not a top notch competitive dex.

 

But I dont really think its because of the book...its just that extreme builds usually have significant weaknesses...althoug you do get broken units like the tzeench fliers/flamers or tesla weaponry and wraiths for the necrons to name a couple.

 

Haven't played serious games for a few months, but even units like the eldar wraiths (or whatever) with their ap2 flamers and T6... assault them first with a disposable unit and then charge with some terminators...

 

We have never been a book/codex/legion know for its forceful and easy way out.

 

However, we are (probably along the chapters without their own codex and templars) a very particular player: most of us enjoy the battle no matter the outcome, we are fierce loyalists to our 3 wings and usually we care more about boasting and correcting our opponent about how great DA are :)

 

This has its plus side...by now, most bandwagoners are over at eldar land or tau ville...fine for me :)